Voting Today

Seth Godin has a classic Seth post on voting this morning. Give it a read if you can before you vote. Not that it will change the way you vote. But it will make you feel better about voting. It sure did that for me.

I am headed to the gym and then to the polling place.  If you live in NYC, you can use this web app to figure out where your polling place is this morning. My son Josh is going to vote with The Gotham Gal on his way to school. I agree with Seth. Take your kids to vote with you if you can.

As for the question of who I am going to vote for, well I woke up with this image in my mind.


When I first saw the Get A Mac ads, I liked the Justin Long character. But over time, his smug attitude started to annoy me and I started to like the John Hodgman character better.

Same with Obama and Hillary. This past week Obama has really started to annoy me. The preachy video. Hanging with Ted Kennedy. Meanwhile in the last debate Hillary was good, really good.

But the clincher is my kids. Like Caroline Kennedy, I turned to my kids. And they are universally in Hillary’s camp. They like her better and are more comfortable with her in the White House.

So Hillary has my vote this am. I hope she wins. I think she won’t. I can feel the Obama surge and I bet he’ll be the nominee. Which is fine with me. As long as he drops his Justin Long character and becomes Hodgman again.


Comments (Archived):

  1. lindsaycampbell

    heads up, the link to seth’s post is broken it seems…

    1. fredwilson

      i finally got in front of a computer and fixed itthanksfred

  2. Carl Rahn Griffith

    alternatively, the onion sums it up pretty well in this video analysis ..…;-)

    1. fredwilson

      that’s great!

  3. Greg Cannon

    Good points, all. But as everyone knows, especially New Yorkers, Obama’s got nothing on Hillary when it comes to preachy. In the end, I can deal with either being the nominee, but the clinchers for me are: the war and no child left behind, each its own brand of disaster. I know she’s got upside, but Hillary’s support for these things tells me there’s too much of an uncritical willingness to go along with the status quo.

    1. fredwilson

      obama recently voted to continue the war, didn’t he?i think he’s more status quo than his campaign would want us to thinkfred

      1. Greg Cannon

        True, there’s only so much “change” we can realistically expect of any candidate. The rest is just campaign hype and the electorate’s longing. But I think there’s a big distinction between having voted for the war and voting to continue funding the troops. As much as I’d like to see Iraq over and done with, I think cutting off funding is the worst way possible to do so.

  4. Sam

    I’ve heard many people complain that they don’t know enough about Barack’s policies to know whether he has the ‘experience’ to serve as President. Then we get posts like this where he loses votes because he reminds people of Justin Long. I love your blog, Fred, but this represents some pretty empty thinking. I voted for Barack as you can probably imagine but for reasons relating to my distrust of the Clintons and the message that seemed to be a replay of power politics rather than Barack’s admittedly preachy (as in, like a preacher) call to unite the country. I am tired or red state/blue state politics and I also didn’t feel like undermining the constitution by letting Bill serve another four years without being elected. He will be a force for corruption if left untethered in that White House and it scares and depresses me. God bless America.

    1. fredwilson

      I’ve posted a lot about this over the past several months. Please read all of my posts before accusing me of ’empty thinking’Fred

    2. Andy Swan

      Sam… I don’t really agree with Fred’s choice at all, but to say he’s engaged in “empty thinking” is nonsense for any regular reader of this blog. Fred’s point was that what was once “fresh” is now coming up stale for him. That after a year of watching, he’s more comfortable with one candidate than another….and he used an analogy relevant to the techie readers of this blog to make his point.I wish all voters were 10% as engaged and thoughtful with their vote as Fred is….no matter what the outcome.

      1. Sam

        Fair enough. I agree that Fred has thought deep and hard about this topic and I’ve read the posts. I suppose I was disappointed that on such an important day the choice was distilled to the Mac metaphor. But, of course, it’s Fred’s blog and I do understand the deeper point and can emphathize with the sensitivity to the tone. It’s an American tradition to root for the underdog and we’re all sensitive to a shift where the underdog becomes the mainstream and what happens to our opinions at that point.

        1. fredwilson

          the mac metaphor is how i presented the decision, but like all decisions, it was formed via a lot of soul searching. and my family had a big impact on me. i know many people will think that its strange to let your wife and kids impact how you vote, but we talk a lot about the issues at the kitchen table and my kitchen cabinet means a lot to mefred

  5. Dave Hyndman

    Fred: Hard for me to beat your kids, but if you have a few minutes before you vote take a look at Larry Lessig’s just posted video endorsement of Obama:…DAVE

    1. brooksjordan

      The Lessig video is quite good and supports the operating executive versus visionary leader distinction, I think, you articulated in a previous post, which was compelling to me.

    2. Greg Cannon

      watching the lessig video now. the demonstrations of clinton’s swiftboat-like tactics affirms for me the fact that I can’t support her now.

    3. fredwilson

      great link davei had not seen it.not sure Larry would have convinced me, and I already voted, but he certainly makes some great pointsFred

  6. Hlavaj

    You say preachy, I say inspirational. I’m a regular reader, but not a regular poster. I think you were on the right trrack when you cited the Atlantic Monthly article. Billary will adopt whatever is politically convenient. Not that all of them don’t do that, but the Clintons are some of the worst offenders in my mind.

    1. fredwilson

      There is a fine line between inspirational and preachy and its in a different place for everyoneThat’s something obama needs to be very careful about in the coming months as I suspect he’ll be the nomineeFred

      1. Hlavaj

        “it’s different place for everyone” – good point. A lot of it comes down to personal interpretation. Its a classic marketing lesson that these candidates know all too well – emotion trumps logic.

  7. bijan

    It a tough decision. I was on the fence too as you know. I voted for Obama. And I feel good about that wife Lauren was a completely in Hilary’s camp but the last two nights she said she was back on the fence. She didn’t like the nastiness coming out of the Clinton camp nor Clinton’s vote to invade Iraq. I honestly don’t know what she is going to do later today.I am concerned about the preachy thing to but I think it’s genuine and felt from the heart.Just as a fyi, that video wasn’t made by the Obama folks. my understanding is that it was done completely from the initiative of Will.I.Am and Jesse Dylan.

    1. fredwilson

      That video may have converted some but it worked the opposite on me. I don’t need ted kennedy, jesse dylan, or william telling me how I should voteFred

      1. Greg Cannon

        I agree about the video, but that’s always the tricky thing about endorsements. They’re premised on the idea of “do what I do” and they often turn off as many people as they turn on.

      2. Sam

        Just watched it. Had a negative gut-reaction to it for many of the reasons Fred articulated. I see your broader point more clearly now.

      3. brooksjordan

        The “Yes We Can” video is reaching out and touching people who live their lives through music and even gospel and, yes, celebrity, which is people everywhere but certainly people of color and young people, and encouraging them to vote.And they did a great job putting it together. It’s soulful. We need that, too. Si, Se Puede.

  8. Tony_Alva

    The Onion clip was great! John Mcshizel fo’ shizel!!!

  9. Farhan Lalji

    Just saw the video for the first time, and I enjoyed it. Think you had it right with your earlier post on leadership and management, does that mean that your voting for the manager or have you changed your mind about Hillary being a leader? Also, what about the VP/ticket angle. Let’s say Edwards is chosen as running mate do you like the Hilary Edwards ticket or Obama Edwards?

    1. Sam

      I like Obama Biden personally.

      1. Andy Swan

        Agreed. Obama/Biden would definitely get my vote over McCain….and I’m typically voting GOP. Edwards is everything that’s wrong with America all wrapped up in a pretty bow.

    2. fredwilson

      my dream ticket is Hillary at the top and Obama as the VP.Hillary needs another man in her life and Obama would be ideal.Edwards would notFred

  10. Andy Swan

    Well, I’m really terribly torn. I want Hillary to win, because I think that pretty much seals the deal that the next President will be GOP. However, the thought of that being McCain is stomach-turning. I would think that the world has had enough of non-conservative Republican disasters for a while.But, it could be a very different story tonight….since most states don’t allow McCain’s base (Democrats) to vote in GOP primaries

    1. Michael

      @Andy Swan, this is precisely why so many traditional conservatives are backing Obama — his conservative temperament isn’t just a ruse, it’s a deep understanding of conservatism such that even while he’ll certainly be progressive he’ll garner the respect of those who aren’t. This is why he pulls in so many with non-base or independent stripes. And that is in stark contrast to the opportunism-cum-deivisiveness and that belies the Clintons.For me, it’s become quite simple. Either relive the past with HIllary, or walk into the future, scary though it may be, with Obama. From what I read, that’s the way it is for many conservatives — even within my own rather arch famiily — as well.

      1. Andy Swan

        Great comment. I’m still holding out hope for Romney though…. 🙂

        1. MIchael

          Interesting. I was just in Mexico on vacation and an early retiree tech exec from SF was either Obama or Romney, which I find baffling. Why Romney?On an admittedly superficial scale, he’s comes off as just this side of a used car salesman. My friend was kee on his business experience in that it would portend good things for the economy.

          1. Andy Swan

            Because Romney is the only fairly-conservative *executive* left in the race. I think he’s the only one that would at least attempt to keep government interference in our lives from growing….or maybe even reduce it? (ha! that’ll be the day)….unlike the neo-con morons of the current white house and the nanny-staters on the other side of the aisle. McCain will be a war-president with a liberal domestic side…. in other words, he’ll do everything Bush did wrong (start wars) and nothing Bush did right (cut taxes and propose spending reforms).

          2. Michael

            Thanks for the insight, really. He’s a very unknown quantity for me. And you’re right about the nanny-state: It is truly breathtaking how much Bush has overspent and overgrown; it is pitiable that both the GOP and Dems have enabled exactly that (for obviously differing reasons).Meanwhile, I just found this hilarious comment on another pol site:This Grateful Dead concert is not good news for Obama. Given one last chance to hear the Dead, even without Jerry Garcia, many, many fans will take this opportunity to embark on the magical mystery tour just one more time. And you know what that means – low turnout on Tuesday. At the last free Dead concert I attended, albeit many years ago, purchase of a t-shirt got you a hit of very pure windowpane. When I left the concert at five in the morning, well, not even the opportunity to vote for the Resurrected Christ could have kept me from my bed for the next 14 hours.

          3. fredwilson

            Bush did nothing to reign in spending and his war in Iraq is the biggest budget buster ever (our Afghanistan?)Fred

          4. Michael

            So … we agree on that point? (Sorry, wasn’t sure if this was directed at me who said the same thing.)By the way, can I borrow $3 trillion? I’m good for it.

          5. Andy Swan

            Well, Bush definitely didn’t reduce spending….you’re right. That’s why I used the word “propose”, mostly directed at the Social Security system (the elephant in the room)….that was noteworthy and hopefully the next President has the balls to attack the problem before it really starts to hurt us.I will be the first in line when it comes to bashing the spending side of Bush….it’s what makes him the worst kind of republican….the non-conservative kind. That’s what we would get with McCain and we cannot afford it… McCain would probably raise taxes and undo the good that’s done on the revenue side.I really think that conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans are the worst Presidents that you can have, because they tend to take Congress out of its natural gridlock….something us “small government” folks enjoy the most!

          6. Steven Kane

            by “our afghanistan” i assume you are referring to the soviet invasion which contributed so much to the economic implosion of the USSR?bret stephens has an awesome column in today’s WSJ (the op ed site is now free) on the subject of (what he calls) “Declinism” — the seemingly evergreen form of punditry devoted to cataloging and explainin g why the american system is exhausted or spent or eroded to some point of inevitable decline. and how such pessimism always overlooks context and core data is always (at least until now) wrong. definitely worth a quick read: delicate american experiment is delicate and fragile and deeply flawed and often distracted and corrupted. but its still an amazing, improbable noble dream — and a wild success with much much much opportunity for enhancement and growth and world if nothing else, lets not let the ideal be the enemy of the good!

          7. fredwilson

            Yes that’s what I mean steve. I am deeply concerned that we can’t afford this warI’ll give the wsj a readFred

  11. Newton

    Congrats Fred. You had a chance to cast a vote for a fresh wind of change from the stagnant 20 year stink that emanates from D.C. and you blew it over a dumb ass video! That was the NY State Teachers Union doing their job and educating (indoctrinating) your kids that Hillary is the right choice. Newsflash: Hill is UNELECTABLE. You want more CLINTON FAMILY VALUES in Washington? In November Independents and the youth vote will continue to be disenfranchised and STAY HOME for Hill. I hope you understand that your vote for Hill will probably count towards 4 more years of Republican’s in the White House and all that comes with that. More troops over seas. How old is your son? Maybe he’ll miss the draft.

  12. CGlace

    Fred, you seem to be a very intelligent person. . . I’m wondering how you can fathom that either of these people will be good for our economy. Should we not heed the advice of the great Austrian economists: Mises, Hayek, Menger, Bastiat, Bohm-Bawerk? If we are to accept the axioms of this school of thought then the fall is inevitable and Hillary and Barrack will be the great leaders, touting the needs of a collectivist society while our wealth and freedom are syphoned away.

    1. Greg Cannon

      Who’s been doing the siphoning for the past 7 years? Maybe you’re among those who enjoy Bush’s tax cuts, but it doesn’t take a Nobel-winning economist to see that we’re just passing the buck to our kids.

    2. Dick Costolo

      CGlace, you’ll forgive those of us in firmly in the Democrat camp if we chuckle when we hear people worry that Obama or Clinton will syphon away our wealth and freedom given that a) Bush has just proposed the first $3 Trillion budget and took over a surplus that he turned into a mind-blowing deficit while simultaneously b) eroding the constitution, invading our privacy in exchange for the illusion of security, and shredding the geneva convention and any other multilateral agreement he could get his hands on. The last 8 years have been wealth and freedom syphoning 101. ps, I’m a data guy. The last two Bush presidencies have and are ending in recession. To listen to people fret about how the democrats are going to ruin the economy today is a bit like being told the earth is 6000 years old by a creationist standing in front of a dinosaur exhibit.

      1. CGlace

        I didn’t explicitly limit my disdain for candidates to the democrats. . . I’m equally as dissatisfied with the republican candidates. Hearing about this mandatory involuntary servitude the dems are talking about certainly has me scared though. 13th amendment anyone??

    3. Michael

      I’d like to agree with CGlace: Libertarianism is a wonderful theory.; )

    4. fredwilson

      almost every political post i’ve ever done has attracted a comment that starts with “fred, you seem to be a very intelligent person” and then lambasts me for being a political idiot (ie a liberal democrat)well it might just be true that liberalism and intelligence go hand in handi know that conservatives can’t even fathom thatbut it might be worth opening your mind to the possibilityfred

      1. Andy Swan

        LOL…I noticed that too. “Well, I thought you were smart, but then you [had a different opinion than me]” What arrogance.There are extremely smart people at all stops along the political spectrum….it’s not that hard to see. And it’s also pretty stupid to assume that one side has the correct answers.

        1. CGlace

          You can be terribly intelligent but when your reasoning rests on faulty premises one must question the conclusion.I don’t care how intelligent a person is, if they go about making ethical or epistemological claims, one must question the premises these claims rest on. Are you suggesting I should first weigh the intelligence of the person and then factor that into an evaluation of their propositions? I believe you have it backwards.Also, to suggest that I should claim ignorance in regard to my beliefs is a dubious position. You are replacing your epistemological system for mine and then using your system to claim how arrogant mine is, intersystem argumentation is of little use.

          1. Andy Swan

            See… I know you’re smarter than me… I’ll shut up 🙂 It works!

      2. CGlace

        I would love to agree when you say, “liberalism and intelligence go hand in hand,” that is if we are speaking about the classical liberalism of the founders and the great economists(those I mentioned before, though I could add many more to that list). However, you are speaking about the collectivist policies of the current democratic party, big difference.I’m not trying to create a republican vs. democrat war of ideas, mainly because I think both parties are full of collectivists(neo-con vs. liberal). I’m just asking how you can think Hillary’s or Obama’s policies will work, given the breadth of economic knowledge we have collected on policies with similar underlying axioms. If you wish to resort to abusive ad hominem argumentation thats fine. . . I was just curious.

        1. fredwilson

          Now you’ve got me interested in figuring out what collectivism is. Sounds like I am a proponent of itFred

      3. Steven Kane

        you lost me herei agree some people feel the need to flatter before giving a rasberry. pretty silly behavior.but i think you’re reading too much into this. this isn’t about “liberalism” or “conservatives”. this is strictly about professionalism and manners versus childishness (on the part of the rude and silly commenter)quoth david byrne “I hate people when they’re not p;olite!”;)

        1. fredwilson

          quoting David Byrne again Steve!you can win any argument with me by doing that.fred

  13. DanRunion

    Fred, I’m sure your kids are pretty politically savvy the way you talk about them. But are they old enough to remember the Clinton era? Do they have context to understand why some just can’t “trust the Clintons”?I can’t vote for Hillary, I just can’t. And O’Bama…he’s good. I’ll give him that, but ‘not yet’. He’ll likely be president some day. Just not yet. My .02.The other day I overheard a co-worked (a black guy mind you) saying that he’d vote for Hillary just b/c she was a woman. I find it incredibly disrespectful to the people the have died in this country so that a minority of whatever type could vote, and/or run for office. I don’t think these people intended us to vote for people B/C of these reasons.

    1. fredwilson

      I remember the Clinton presidency and was a big fan of Bill’s (and still am)That’s not why I voted for Hillary, but it certainly isn’t why I didn’t vote for herfred

  14. mattresses

    i agree, hillary was good in the last debate.

  15. Ben

    Apparently the Get a Mac ads totally backfired for Apple in the UK because everyone thought the Mac guy was too smug and rude to he PC.

  16. Andy Freeman

    Boomers are going for Obama because he’s their opportunity to vote for John Kennedy.This is a nightmare for Sen Clinton. Governor Clinton won the presidency as Kennedy’s successor. Now she has to run as the brains behind the sequel against a remake.

  17. DanInCambridge

    its odd that your children are picking a candidate that will have so little impact on them but a much greater, negative impact on other people.Your children attend private school, they have no idea the mess the public school system is in, and their children won’t either. A vote for Hill is a vote for the same old here.Health care – My bet is your kids get top rate health care. Even if we went to socialized health under Hill, your family would still have private health insurance. The tax hikes Hill will surely bring to pay for socialized health won’t affect their bank accounts as much. If they think the way you do, they will welcome such tax hikes because you believe you should pay more because you make more. Well guess what? That isn’t the way it will work.Hill voted for the war on terrible intelligence.She grew up in the bureaucracy, its all she knows.I would be interested to know why your children gravitate towards Clinton, as most young dems are for Obama.

    1. Farid

      Well remember, Fred is “unabashed capitalist.” The kids don’t know any better how could they? the father is in the business of manipulating money, etc.Both Obama and Clinton are sponsered by Corporate America.I’d only vote if Nader runs.

      1. DanInCambridge

        But he isn’t an “unabashed capitalist”. If he were he wouldn’t have just voted for the candidate that wants to expand government regulation on industry the most.I believe he is a socialist (some may take that as an insult, not intended). As long as the government is regulating the economy it would make sense that a business man would want to make nice with his masters. Nevermind his stance on national heath care, etc.I’ve only voted for Nader(I’ve only been eligible to vote in 2 presidential elections), but thats because I think the two party system is BS. If you are a die hard free marketer you might want to look at Ron Paul.

        1. Farid

          “If you are a die hard free marketer you might …”No thanks. I have conscience. The reason that this world is so fucked up is because of all these free marketers. Time to put them all in Gitmo and water-board the shit out of them.Read ‘Bad Samaritans, The Myth of Free Trade and Secret History of Capitalism” by Cambridge economist Ha-Joon Chang. You don’t have to be Fred Wilson to understand it.

          1. DanInCambridge

            They why the vote for Nader?The book has been purchased, though I am a cynic and the excerpts I have read online don’t impress me.

      2. fredwilson

        I was just called a communist at lunchI’m so confused about what I am 😉

        1. Greg Cannon

          Depends on who paid 😉

    2. fredwilson

      They watched the debates with us and liked her answers. She had real substanative answers instead of platitudesFred

  18. Guest

    I can’t believe people are so rude to Fred. Read a few posts back how he called Romney for what he is (a slimy invertebrate), despite Romney being a fellow VC himslef, and risking the wrath of Meg Whitman to potentially undermine his Internet ventures.Fred Wilson is an honest thinker, and while I myslef like Obama better than Hilary, I can only respect his choice.

    1. fredwilson

      they are only rude when it comes to politicsat least that is my take from the past 4 1/2 years of bloggingfred

      1. Farid

        “they are only rude when it comes to politics”Because you don’t shit about politics that’s why.

  19. stone

    I have a slightly different take on this, Fred. I think voting for president is incredibly important. As such, I also believe that the person running for president has to be the best in the country. Their credentials, IMHO, have to be impeccable. Their experience has to be extreme because I do not think it’s a job that lends itself to on the job training. It’s true that any person that makes it this far will be able to surround themselves with great, honorable people, so we’re unlikely to end up with any disasters given our system.This all leads me to the punchline. I do not think Obama is yet qualified to be president. I normally vote for the democrats but this time have crossed over to the dark side and am supporting John McCain. Why? Because I don’t like the way Hilary plays things down the middle and I don’t think Obama has the credentials (yet). John McCain has an amazing record. I don’t like the contrast of Obama vs. McCain. It’s like Granpa vs. Junior — very oddball match-up. What’s John Mccain going to say to him during the debates? Obama is so new on the scene that McCain won’t be able to compare and contrast because Obama is fresh out of the state legislature. McCain will really school him on so many issues that I think it will be painful to watch.

    1. Farid

      “John McCain has an amazing record”Seriously are you stupid or what? what record? killing Vietnamese is not an outstanding accomplishment dude. He’s a disgusting, despicable war monger just like the current retard in charge.I hope he kicks the bucket before November.

    2. fredwilson

      I respect that decision.I could vote for McCain too.I probably won’t.But there’s a lot to like about himFred

  20. stone

    John McCain is a true american hero. He could’ve left the hanoi hilton but refused special treatment. He’s been a true reformer in the Senate and he’s been willing to do things that are unpopular with his party. I like that and think that qualifies him to be president.It would’ve been easy to oppose the war. I agree that George Bush has been terrible on most issues except for taxes.

    1. Farid

      Do you have ADD or Amnesia? which one is it? or perhaps you were hibernating? that old fuck wants to stay in Iraq for another 100 years and start another war with Iran to appease warmongers in AIPAC.Kindly get back to your winter sleep and stay away from things that requires analytical skills.

    2. Lyn

      Farid uses an aggressive language but he’s right about McCain. He’s a scary man.

  21. stone

    We’re going to be in Iraq for years to come no matter who gets elected president — that’s the sad truth. We’ve been in Germany and Korea for decades. Political speech is one thing, actually running the country is something different.

    1. Farid

      Bullshit.AIPAC has McCain by the balls. A few gentle squeezes and the old fuck would drop like a rock.

  22. stone

    I don’t think any group has control of McCain. He has lots of enemies because he doesn’t easily conform.

    1. Farid

      See this is why I despise education in the US. It produces nation of gullibles just like our friend here stone.

      1. fredwilson

        FaridWould you mind keeping the debate civil?Fred

        1. Farid

          Sorry man – got carried away a bit.

  23. stone

    I’m a very late convert to McCain but have always respected him. My concern for Obama, which you haven’t addressed, is his complete lack of experience. I am far from gullible.

    1. Farid

      Trust me you are gullible. We’ve established a long time ago.I couldn’t care less about Obama either. But if you are looking for experience you must write to Cheney and beg him to run for the office. After all no one has more experience than Dick The Tool (TM).

  24. bridgetwi

    Ouch. preachy video? It wasn’t from the official camp you know. Anyway, as I commented earlier, I feel lucky to be a democrat. Two worthy candidates. May the best historic candidate win

    1. Farid

      Bridget, you feel lucky to be democrat? too much Kool Aid eh?

  25. DanRunion

    “We’re going to be in Iraq for years to come no matter who gets elected president — that’s the sad truth. – Stone”It amazes me when people disregard this FACT when discussing the war/presidency. I’m not happy that we’re there, but I’d be more sad if we left right now. Isn’t that basically what the big complaint is about US Foreign policy; that we screw stuff up and don’t stick around to fix it? That and allegedly everything is about oil (a separate debate).Look, I’m hard pressed to believe that there are fewer people w/ more respect for the individuals that make up our Armed Forces, and man it breaks my heart to think that some parent is leaving their family to go over there. But you’ve got to face the fact that these people knew what they were signing up for and made their own choices. God bless them, they’re made from something that I’m not.Mr. Bush, I don’t believe, gives enough thought into military actions. It is my wish that the next president has real wartime experience. That this person remembers what fear is.Furthermore, I like the comment that McCain has opposition b/c he doesn’t just go along w/ the flow. That’s significant to me. I want someone that has experience reconciling their own opinions with groups of people that have opposing views while still staying true to their own fundamental beliefs. That is real politics IMO.

  26. whaybe

    WHAYBE!! hillary goes to for Obama