Third Party Comment Systems Go Mainstream
Last summer, I got an email from Paul Graham saying that one of the Y Combinator teams wanted to launch something on this blog. It was a third party comment system called Disqus. I love getting my hands on new technology, particularly new social media technology, so I said yes without thinking through all the implications.
The Disqus founders, Daniel and Jason, did the work for me and the next day this blog had a new comment system. It took a while for me to get used to it and it took even longer for the readers of this blog to get used to it. But in time I came to realize that using a different web service to host my comments made a lot of sense.
And in March of last year, our firm made an investment in Disqus, about 7 months after they launched at YC demo day and after they’d convinced thousands of bloggers to make the switch. As I explained in that post last March announcing our investment:
Disqus “abstracts” both the comments and the commenters from the blog hosting system. This allows the comments to go anywhere and everywhere where there
is an audience for them. Abstracting comments from the blog hosting
platform does for comments what RSS has done for content; it allows the
comments to flow freely to whatever place it should most logically be
consumed.
I should have said "third party comment systems abstract the comments and the commenters from the blog hosting system." Because by the time we made the investment in disqus, there were a number of third party comment systems in the market; disqus, intense debate, js-kit, and sezwho are the ones I’ve heard most about. You can see the development of the third party comment system market on this compete graph.
I would venture to guess that between 50,000 and 100,000 blogs are using third party comment systems now and they are concentrated in the top end of the market. Clearly third party comment systems are creating value for bloggers and commenters alike.
Yesterday was a big day for the third party comment system market as WordPress, the top blogging service, announced they had acquired Intense Debate, the number two player in the market according to the compete graph above.
This is great news for everyone in the market. WordPress will invest in and improve Intense Debate, which will remain a third party service that can be used on all the popular blogging services (Six Apart, Blogger, etc). And WordPress will incorporate some of the most popular features of Intense Debate into the default WordPress comment service. The feature that wordpress bloggers who have not converted to a third party service will enjoy the most is the email reply to comments service. I asked Daniel and Jason to build that the first day I met them. It’s a huge part of the value of the Disqus service and most of the competitors have added it as well. Being able to read and reply to comments via email is a "quantum leap" improvement in comment services and now this feature will be a standard in the market. That’s huge.
There’s been some discussion in the tech blogs that this acquisition is bad news for Disqus. I don’t think so and neither does Disqus. They posted the following on their blog yesterday.
So what does this mean for us? The Disqus comment system is still the
largest third-party comment system on WordPress, yet those blogs
represent under 5% of all websites using Disqus. We pride ourselves on
being an independent cross-platform service. Disqus will continue to
innovate and provide the best discussion experience on blogs. Our
company’s entire focus is on increasing the number and quality of your
comments and that will never change.
I firmly believe that most innovation comes from companies that are fighting for their survival and new customers without a safety net. And that certainly describes Disqus. With many of the benefits of Intense Debate and Disqus coming to WordPress’ proprietary comment system, it may be harder to attract bloggers on WordPress to a third party comment service and that’s unfortunate for the entire market. But there are a lot of blogs out there that aren’t on WordPress and new innovative blogging platforms like Tumblr, Posterous, and Soup.io keep coming to market.
So this is not a game over moment in my opinion. But it is very much a game changing moment. Third party comment services have been validated and some of the features they offer are going to become "must haves". And that’s a very good thing for everyone.
Comments (Archived):
Fred- Not to be snarky but your 2nd last last line reminded me of Josh’s post- http://redeye.firstround.co…
That compete chart is not a fair comparison – as its been noted on several sites, disqus forced people to their site since launch up through their latest release. IntenseDebate doesn’t do this so frankly both services are on par.A better metric would be comparing active installations (not total installs). While not ultra precise, this would be a far better metric to use than “visits to the 3rd party comment service”. JS-kit reports that they have 500,000 active installations of their comment replacement system:http://www.centernetworks.c…Also, SezWho is not a comment replacement service. It’s a reputation addon and doesn’t change the comment foundation.
disqus forced people to their site since launch up through their latest release. IntenseDebate doesn’t do this so frankly both services are on par.Allen,Every one of these services have profiles hosted on their respective domains. There is nothing disparate in the above measurement of traffic. Whether or not it is meaningful is another point of contention, but the comparisons are equal.
Daniel – the comparisons actually aren’t equal. We’ve had this discussion before including my post:http://www.centernetworks.c…I am happy to disqus 🙂 it again. The profile traffic isn’t what we are discussing. When ya’all changed to point to the actual site and not to disqus (which was great), then ya added the reblog feature which also drives traffic back to Disqus and doesn’t help the commenter who made the great comment to be shared.Showing a simple chart to assert a position isn’t a good foundation – this is why I suggested that other metrics might be better points to use. Of course Fred wants a chart that shows that his investment is #1 – I’ve seen this style for 15 yrs across all of the industries I’ve worked in.And as I’ve said before, I like what you are doing with your product overall. And this acquisition shows that we are moving the commenting systems forward, a good thing for everyone.
This is definitely going to be a blow to Disqus in some way shape or form, but that’s the inherent risk in an “add-in” model. I wrote my first commercial software application for AOL and AOL Instant Messenger several years ago that was one of the first to created a consolidated, tabbed IM window.It did well for a bit but then fast forward a few years and AOL added that feature themselves.If WordPress is going to add some Disqus-like features by default, what happens when the other blogging platforms follow?
web 2.0 service is a misnomer. It should really be called web 2.0 commodities. The entrance barrier for entry is so low now that if a market opens for a particular service, orders of magnitude of new actors (O(n^2) enter the likely (O(n^1.5)) growing market. Any functionalities designed by 3-5 people can be reproduced and proliferated by the open source community within weeks, if not days, for free. Therefore the value add of the service can be easily diffused among scores of new sites. Moreover, without a business model other than advertisting, ad starvation sets. Thus Web 2.0 has been commoditized, and likely will have very low return margins in the foreseeable future.yall should know in 2k9-2k11, the bubble is in cleantech. I know it’s not something yall aren familar with, but ‘the more you know, the more you grow’. Come on yall; creative destruction has been happening since 19k.–dont’ be sad. yall should know better.
BUT, the USER BASE for a successful service isn’t a commodity, is it? It can’t be easily copied!
Exactly. That’s pretty much our entire investment thesis stated in a twittersized statement.
This sounds more like a damage control post.This is from Josh’s post which is mentioned in another comment:”What amazes me is how often the “validate” spin is used. Apple seems to be validating a lot of businesses lately. As an investor in Odeo, I saw firsthand how Apple validated Odeo’s podcasting strategy. Helio believes that “Apple’s iPhone validates [their] strategy of creating a premium brand”. And I’m sure we all agree with HandHeld Entertainment that “Apple’s announcement…about its plans to begin shipping an iPod video player validates their vision” for their ZVUE portable video player.A quick Google search shows that companies of all sizes use the “validate” line. Obopay was validated by Amazon’s launch of SMS purchasing last month. Microsoft feels validated that Google and Salesforce are integrating CRM and office productivity applications. Novell was validated by Oracle’s support for Linux. Even Tesla Motors is validated by General Motor’s launch of the Chevy Volt.If you ask me, as a prospective investor in your company, I’d much rather you validate your own market.”
Unless you’re unhappy, you’re not going to uninstall a comment system.So the wordpress users that have disqus are not going to uninstall and add Intense debate.
Rick, there are 4.1mm WordPress.com blogs alone who could see ID within a month with the flip of a switch. That alone crushes disqus in terms of users. Not to mention all the .org’s (another 4mm) who will see parts of ID during its next release. Then you have all the blogs on the other platforms who decide to jump on the wave.And you can bet there will be some Disqus uninstalls by the people who just had it because they were flavor of the moment.Still, it isnt really about current users uninstalling, but a rapid pickup of prior non-users.Cheers.
Those 4.1mm wordpress users will likely be using wordpress’ proprietary comment system that will be enhanced with intense debate features, not the intense debate service itself which will remain a third party commenting system
Fred,What do you think about an single open-standard for all commenting systems? I really believe the ability to make comments and their respective profiles portable and compatible across the entire Web, and turn them into their own independent publishing layers, is the future. Sometimes I like to see a comment to a source piece of content, while other times I like to read comments as if they were the primary, source content — as you articulate well. However, I wish my disparate breadcrumbs would connect across any and every source site I may visit and comment, including not just blogs that may use Disqus or Intense Debate, but any site, including news, social networks, even retail sites.Max
it’s a good idea.
I’d love it if Twitter would take a page from Disqus. i’ll usually get an email notification of a DM first and every time I wish that i could just reply to that email like i do with Disqus. Our conversation is diffracted and we should be able to engage at every point of communication.
As an add-on to my earlier comment about open, common commenting standards, what if the functionality of MyBlogLog was also included? That’s a meta-publishing layer that I would like to control centrally, and across all places I visit. I’m logged into MyBlogLog, but on your blog notice how disjointed that profile is with my Disqus proflie — as evidenced by my different avatar/headshots.
since last year i’ve always thought that you guys made a very smart move w/ disqus. in the knowledge economy this will become ‘contextual goldmine’there are two forces here.attention play – the indisputable shift from orthodox-blogging to lifestreaming (because it’s far easier and lower maintenance)and the general shift towards micromedia.i think everybody still wins here. BIG. i think it’s just a matter of time before its all ‘verticalized’– good opportunity for certain reputable old media players to play catch up. the question becomes… would the nyt do this…? i think they should.
The NYT company is an investor in Automattic. I don’t think they will be going with Disqus.
the point was branded publishers can allow their users to become ‘social’ across the whole web – publishers like nyt become identity brokers
Disclosure: I have a financial interest in DisqusSeeing this as a negative for Disqus is pretty narrow thinking. I understand it from tech nerds…they have no choice but to see the world this way :)But from a business standpoint…it’s pretty rare to see one of the two market dominators acquired and not see the stock of the remaining company jump significantly.Blogger (if anyone still works there), TypePad, AOL, Yahoo, CBSi, News Corp etc now have a decision to make. Do we sit idle while Automatic owns a product that will go into our pages….or do we find a partner that can do it just as well or better with their own entrenched market share?Hell….MSFT could buy Disqus for peanuts (relative) tomorrow….put it into IE 8.1 and have a sticky browser via comments/discussions on ANY webpage, regardless of publisher.In this game, there are FAR more than the three players mentioned involved….and Automatic just put the heat on all of its competitors just as much as it did on Disqus.
A lack of strong competition would be a bad indicator for all of the comment aggregators so I don’t see this as a net negative for Disqus. There’s a very big market out there in the blogworld and there are many non-WP platforms. Those of us on this discussion thread are far more likely to be WP users so there is a bit of a bias. I know that I’m not removing Disqus where I use it (I use both Intense Debate and Disqus on different blogs).The thing I don’t see is real differentiation in features, however I’m sure both have lots of things in the pipeline. And I agree with Max- these systems are going to be an important addition to the social media eco-sphere.
time for Disqus to establish alliances with Movabletype, Blogger, Tumblr.Let WordPress spread thin integrating Intense Debate.Let all the other big blogging systems outsource comments management to Disqus.How about a feature to create a Disqus Blog by collecting comments I’ve posted all around the web ?It’s FAR, very FAR from and endgame.Best of luck to Daniel and Jason, and keep up with the great work !disclosure: In case you didn’t notice: I’m an avid Disqus user 🙂
Fred,It would be fair to mention Backtype here cf http://www.backtype.com/, which is a great cross-platform service, that goes back in time to unearth old comments cf http://www.backtype.com/fre…Don’t need to install anything on your blog, but you must give them your URLs, so they can identify your comments. Not spam-proof of course, but smart.
I’m curious to know what aspect of the WordPress comments makes them proprietary?
web 2.0 service is a misnomer. It should really be called web 2.0 commodities. The entrance barrier for entry is so low now that if a market opens for a particular service, orders of magnitude of new actors (O(n^2) enter the likely (O(n^1.5)) growing market. Any functionalities designed by 3-5 people can be reproduced and proliferated by the open source community within weeks, if not days, for free. Therefore the value add of the service can be easily diffused among scores of new sites. Moreover, without a business model other than advertisting, ad starvation sets. Thus Web 2.0 has been commoditized, and likely will have very low return margins in the foreseeable future.yall should know in 2k9-2k11, the bubble is in cleantech. I know it’s not something yall aren familar with, but ‘the more you know, the more you grow’. Come on yall; creative destruction has been happening since 19k.–dont’ be sad. yall should know better.
“I firmly believe that most innovation comes from companies that are fighting for their survival and new customers without a safety net.”I love that sentence.
We will see how it plays out in third party comments Mike. I know that theDisqus team is now working even harder to push the envelope.
what EVER happened to co.comment & co.mments (sp?) Weren’t they EARLY entrants in the 3rd-party comments market?
Fred, as always, good points, in fact so good I mention them over on VCMike! see http://vcmike.wordpress.com…PS: How do I get a comment on your blog to link to my post automagically?
That’s quite funny, when Matt Mullenweg was out here for Wordcamp South Africa a few weeks back, I managed to ask him what he thought of 3rd party comment systems like Disqus, and he just smiled and said, “It’s ok, but I prefer Intense Debate, you should check it out.” I wish I had clicked then though
I admit I haven’t seen the latest MT system yet, though I’ve heard good things about it.
I’ll second that this is kind of a b.s. “the market has been validated” piece. I think everyone involved knows that although this isn’t quite game over, it is pretty darn close.Sure Disqus has a nice little userbase, but there a few problems if that is all your are hanging your hat on. With WP+ID in the space their growth from this point onward is going to be severely limited. I don’t think anyone needs to be shown adoption graphs to realize this point. Secondly, you need to make money at some point. And a ‘freemium’ model isn’t going to cut it with WP and ID keeping a comparable free alternative that will have much more exposure.Before WP picked up ID you had Disqus and ID vying for users. Both needed to eventually make money with some sort of premium version, but now ID won’t have that ‘burden’, and will be able to incorporate any premium features created by Disqus into ID w/no cost to consumers.So given slower long-run growth prospects, how does this company make any real money?
Watch and learn
I’m aung aung phyo.I’m interesting this third party comm.
A better metric would be comparing active installations (not total installs).
Interesting post- but what is the business model for third-party commenting systems?
Freemium
good