The Boston Marathon Bombing
I don't have a lot to say about what happened in Boston yesterday. But I do want to acknowledge it.
I agree that we should keep calm and carry on. After 9/11, the Gotham Gal made our family get on the subway, go out and about, and not let terror impact our way of life. That was the right call for our family.
But before I carry on, I want to make sure that I, and all of you, have the opportunity to talk about the senseless losses and violence that occurred. It is tragic and terrible.
Comments (Archived):
All my sympathies to those affected. I love boston and this is a very cowardly attack, no matter what perspective.
Condolence and sympathy for the injured and for those who lost their love ones its not good news of the day.http://thesportsclash.blogs…
Heart goes out to Boston. We can only imagine which US city is next to experience something similar. Hate the fact that Muslim extremists are rejoicing and saying the US deserves it. Also hate the fact the news media and spin meisters politicized it. Bravo to the people that responded to the wounded and situation so quickly. There are more good people in the US and world than bad people. Eventually the good people are going to win.
It is tragic and terrible indeed. Unfortunately, we will see more of these in future. No amount of security or high technology can ever deter a terrorist bent on destruction. However, we do need talk about these things and we need to support one another when these tragedies do occur. And we must carry on and remain vigilant but not scared.
Hearing that an 8 year old boy was killed and his mother seriously wounded in hospital because both were standing at the finish line to watch his father cross the line makes me well up. I just cannot fathom how someone can live with themselves for doing that, whatever their cause. You’re right though – the terrorists aim is to scare people and the best way to combat that is to defiantly carry about your business as normal and let the FBI / Government do their job.
I find myself a bit speechless…and I agree there is nothing really to say. Western values will remain at stake and the target of sheer violence from those who consider them as unacceptable, and a loosy excuse to all kind of frustration-fuelled bursts of violence and death…unfortunately such violence occurs in other parts of the world on a daily basis…regions and cultures where us Westerners we couldn’t live for a day, because we couldn’t stand the injustice and pain…let’s start to make things less horrible and sad, and let’s choose for brighter conceptions…let’s sit and start talking…All my thoughts to Bostonians
All I was thinking was thank goodness for social media. Not comparable but it did have flashes of 1992 and 2001 for me, when I lived near NY. Yesterday I was able to get a hold of all my friends that were running via Twitter/FB. I was able to tell people I was okay since I had tweeted I was at the marathon and was sending videos from the route that suddenly stopped because of overloaded cell service. And I was able to get people to call my family for me after they shut off cell service in Boston. Staying home today because I live along the route and just don’t feel safe… but I do plan on going in to work tomorrow. I just need to see my co-workers, even though I know they’re fine. But damn, I’m proud of my city and how they opened up their doors and floors and homes to people that were displaced yesterday. The waiting does continue for some of my friends that have been unable to locate people with the people finder, so please continue to send good thoughts this way to them and to all that were affected, from families of victims to first responders. If anyone wants to donate, I’d encourage supporting the Red Cross or one of the area hospitals like MGH, but the tech community has TUGG (Technology Underwriting the Greater Good): https://www.fundraise.com/t… And for anyone here in Boston, Boston Cares will be posting volunteer opportunities on their Twitter feed @BostonCares and on Facebook.
Glad to know you are safe, Trish.
Thank you Donna… more information came out during the day that left me speechless. One friend’s neighbor is the little boy that passed away. Another friend’s friend, lost both of her legs ( http://www.gofundme.com/Cel… ). It’s just craziness. Taking time this evening to count my blessings.
I was living on Broome Street in SoHo at 9/11. I felt personally attached in my neighborhood. Still do actually.My company was in SF at the time and insisted on remembrances yearly and it was obvious that distance from the event lessened the true impact that people felt over time.I intend to not make my distance from this event, distance me. Too important to come to grips with.
Having lived in Boston for a dozen years after college, I know how important the marathon is for the life of the city.The city should enlist guys like Bill Rodgers and others to take part next year or sooner and help reassure runners and everyone else that life goes on.
In Boston now and people have already started to commit to run next year. It’s not the runners I’m thinking about, it’s how big the crowd may be and how to control that.
I wish I knew.
My 15 year old son Michael said, in fear and anger, “Every week there’s something else.” It does feel like that.
my 17 year old son Josh said “how does someone get a bomb into a crowd like that with security all around”
I do worry about their generation having this sense of constant perceived risk, as Liad points out.
we live in a highly pourous society. There is simply no way that we can stop someone from hurting us i am afraid. this is what @kidmercury would refer to as the paradox of 4th generation warfare.
That’s how I see it, too, Mark. We are porous in this way now.
I think this is a real risk, and I think this is completely a function that we live in an increasingly connected society. We now hear about horrible acts within moments and they are discussed for days after by the whole world. We have always had senseless violence, but now we shine a light upon it and it is no longer in the shadows.I feel that acknowledging it maybe gives the demon more power over us. Or perhaps it is the only way to break its teeth. I’m very torn, and each act of senseless violence like this affects me and brings up memories that are difficult. Its times like this we must hold our children and loved ones closer. That is the only thing that brings me solace in times like these.
I hear all of this. And agree. And I would expand by saying that I simply worry about the physical, psychological, spiritual effects of leaving in this constant state of adrenaline flow.
It’s little wonder kids today are so obsessed with the YOLO mantra, zombies, trashy-‘glamourous’-lifestyle-‘reality’-TV, fantasy-games, and bubble-gum pop-music.There’s too much to rebel against, now.In The Wild One, Brando’s character, Johnny, replied when asked “What are you rebelling against, Johnny?” – “What you got?”Today, kids are saturated with causes for upset, to the extent it’s all-too-easy to understand why so many of them have opted-out from this grim world we have created for them – economically, ethically and socially, it’s bereft.Time’s running-out for us to make a real change.
Same. I lived that way for many years, and I refuse to go back. We have to help our kids learn to live through this without living in a constant state of “condition orange” (term that gun owners use to describe the constant state of heightened self defense awareness). My thoughts here: http://theslowhunch.net/pos…
Aren’t other places in the world used to this (sadly) and it’s simply just trickled over to the US?
you adapt
Yes, yes, yes. Most of us really have no clue. I’ve never been in a war zone. Don’t ever want to. When a friend once admitted to “sucking on the tail pipes of cars to survive a poison gas bomb detonated on the streets” I became keenly aware of how lucky to live here and how naive I was.
When there were only 500 Homo Sapiens, constant perceived risk was the norm. Sadly, we have regressed to that state, only now the threat is intra-species.
Worry is proportionate to lack of control, no? So I see being more prepared as being a remedy – taking risk seriously. For example, how many NYers actually have a “go bag” and plan of action, even after Sandy and 9/11. And that’s only for one-offs, not seat belts and crossing the road, and holding a knife safely – our daily habits.While I totally agree there seems to be something every week, and perceived risk is not fun to raise a child with, we live in a much safer age than the last century in many senses.Perhaps my calm is from a mother raised in WW2 living thru the blitz. She was getting a haircut and lunching on 9/12, because “keep calm and carry on” is how she was raised.BTW we are watching Downton Abbey with my 11 yr old, and just did WW1 episodes. My feeling is now, from your own words, that children who know adversity are stronger. And better prepared. It is she who is planning our go bags.That and my BF is going into Psychiatry and wants to specialize in child psych which is totally underserved. Preventative healing.
“totally underserved”One of my neighbors in the office complex here is a child psych. Working as many days as he can. Waiting list. Only a few years out of med school and approaching 400k in income. (And that’s in the suburbs not NYC.)
Hopefully he pays back med school costs at a fast clip while also helping people.
we deal. Assumed safety doesn’t work either
Back in the day, I worked in a business where we interacted with investors over the phone, and responded to their letters. We had a world of metrics; we measured and analyzed our errors, and were always trying to figure out how to improve.We had good people who wanted to perform at a high level.To improve our metrics and results, we even instituted 100% checks of some complex transactions: we essentially did the work twice to make sure that we didn’t make errors.Nonetheless, errors slipped through. The 100% check didn’t improve the results at all. I think about this every time I go through airport “security.”I hope that Josh’s generation will observe reality — using ever more refined data analysis capabilities — and see that the security state we’ve built up can’t assure our safety.The only safety is in our relationships with one another.
Great comment, Anne.
Thanks, Cam.
Great comment Anne.We need to evolve our cultures to include the best of competition, indepedence, caring & commonwealth.In essence, terrorists are life’s biggest losers – striking blindly at defenceless innocents while using their perceptions of ‘exclusion’, ‘inferiority’ & ”helplessness’ to justify their atrocities.
“Commonwealth,” what a lovely word to contemplate. Thanks, James.
relationships can break though, but at least they are a starting point
I agree completely.I fly a lot. I mean seriously next week I will be in PHL, CLT, ATX, PHL, ATL, PHL, MSY, LAX, and PHL (which reminds me I need to email JLM for BBQ)I had gone on two trips like this and I got stopped in PIT. They said we need to see your leather bag. I said, oh its my PICO projector no issue. She said, no you have a knife. I must have been through ten checkpoints. She was right I was wrong. My wife had left a Leatherman at a party and somebody brought it to me and I had put it in my bag.
Exactly.I wasn’t the person who ran the numbers on our processing issue, it was an extraordinary senior exec. So, details are hazy in my memory. I recall it as a big probability game, and one we were never going to “win.”Unfortunately, we don’t have leaders in our government who have the backbone to make arguments based in data and probabilities. How much did it cost to finally catch you with your wife’s Leatherman? How might those funds have been deployed more intelligently, in the service of preventing actual crimes and attacks?
Wow.
Yup.
anyone asking that question needs to brush up on their kookology. 9/11: synthetic terror by webster tarpley is one of my favorite kookology textbooks for those looking to understand the mechanics of false flag terrorism. tarpley is also one of few kooks who loves big government, loves taxes, spending programs, FDR, etc.
I actually like big government, taxes, spending programs and FDR, HOWEVER there is a caveat for me. This government has its priorities messed up, and since humans are fallible perhaps every one will end up in some sort of similar situation. The collective can always do more then the individual, but we need to make sure the government stays accountable to its people, not just those that can successfully lobby it. So maybe I am a kook in a way, but I so don’t think security theater is a good approach. Those who give up their freedom for the feeling of security deserve neither.Enough politics though, and back to the terror in Boston: back in 1995 I woke up to a loud noise after taking a nap in English class (I was a senior in high school) on April 19. My father was scheduled to be downtown for court, but thankfully for the first time in his life I found out later that he was late to court. Someone who hated our government parked a truck full of fertilizer in front of the Murrow building. I was a altar boy at the time and the next few days I was at church for funerals of people I knew who died. I was so afraid the moments right after the bombing before I knew my father was safe. Even though he was, those friends and people in the church suffered greatly. This senseless event is forever imprinted in my mind. I can only imagine that this was how the people in Boston felt yesterday.My heart and prayers go out to all those in Boston and those that lost loved ones and friends in this senseless act. May lady justice act swiftly and put a stop to this senseless murderer of innocents.
At 17 he’s probably never known any security bar security theatre.
It’s the ubiquity and all-pervasive nature of today’s news (which is usually bad, it seems) that’s the differentiator – I grew-up during the first phases of IRA UK-mainland bombings yet we didn’t feel paranoid about it, even though London was just 90mins away – news was a very detached matter back then – there was no personal-perspective, no granularity – no gory details. Today, for good and bad, is so very different for kids. They don’t have a childhood any longer.
now the kids also grow up with video games like call of duty and television shows in the states like 24 and homeland. it is a full on propaganda assault, all this stuff is being normalized.
“An extraterrestrial being, newly arrived on Earth – scrutinizing what we mainly present to our children in television, radio, movies, newspapers, magazines, the comics, and many books – might easily conclude that we are intent on teaching them murder, rape, cruelty, superstition, credulity, and consumerism. We keep at it, and through constant repetition many of them finally get it. What kind of society could we create if, instead, we drummed into them science and a sense of hope?” ~ Carl Sagan.
The US is just catching up to the RoW. In 1985, I took a picture of a travel agency in Rome. 5 seconds later, a non-English speaking soldier with a assault rifle was interrogating me.The travel agency had Libya in its name & I took the pic cause I thought it was funny – who the hell would want to go on vacation there?Turns out it was not a joking matter & i should have known better.
But there is a plus to the media’s gory details. Look at that Pinker TED talk, violence is down. We got out of Vietnam and Iraq because we could see the horror in our living rooms. The problem is dealing with the fear ofd seeing it all the time – all of us have to do that in our own ways methinks.
Not sure what perimeter they set up and what screening they had. But the bomb was small most likely so unless people were going through detectors I would think it wouldn’t be that difficult.More importantly I wonder to what extent they had installed and recorded (on virtually free hard disk space) high resolution images of everything and anything for a post mortem. High resolution not crapcam. And I mean multiple angles not panning here and there but everywhere.I’ve always wondered about airport security how they screen the behind the lines vendors and the goods they sell. Hard to believe that they are very thoroughly vetting every package, vendor or HVAC repairman, UPS delivery that does something at the terminals where it would be trivial to sneak in something that could be picked up by a passenger cleared and ready to board an airplane.Terrorists have perseverance and are not in a rush. They could easily get people to work on the inside of some of these operations over the course of years to plan an attack.
Need some Bostonians to help me out here. There is no ‘perimeter’ unless you consider maybe Brookline or the South End, the Charles and the ocean. There are no checkpoints. The whole area from the Commons down into Allston Brighton is loaded with people walking around. Lots of cops yes, trained to look for sketchy people, whatever that means, and people drinking out of paper bags. The Marathon for half the folks is serious (I might be generous here) but the other half it’s a giant outdoor party. It’s so easy to get into town.
better question – how do you get 5 bombs (they found other explosives) I don’t believe it wasn’t terror – I just want to know if it is foreign or domestic
Unless the cops are lying, only two bombs and both went off.
Planning. And – I bet in this case – they purchased most of the materials inside the security perimeter.The good news is that most terrorists are dumb – http://www.schneier.com/ess…I also really like this idea – The Case for Calling Them Nitwits – http://www.theatlantic.com/…
No C4 on Newbury St, unless they rented an apartment for storage. I bet they bought the stuff whenever, put it in a backpack, took the T in, got off, walked down the street, passing by more than a few alcohol fueled revelers, dropped it wherever they had scoped out, walked away and then blew them off before anyone was the wiser.
There are so many people milling around all day with backpacks and satchels, JLM??? and with underground transportation right near by, plus, it was a gorgeous day to be walking around.
Whilst it does feel like that, the reality is far from it.Bruce Schneier writes a lot about perceived vs real risk -http://www.schneier.com/blo…
Very important to remember this. Thanks
Bruce Schneier is fantastic. Thanks.
Great share, new to me.
We are living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence.More on this subject by Steven Pinker: http://www.ted.com/talks/st…
Thanks for sharing, a wonderfully rational antidote to fear and a help to the natural instinct to keep calm and carry on
pinker’s work has been dissed: http://www.psychologytoday….not sure who is right, just trying to stir the pot
Sorry to be cliche but things like that are actually a teachable moment for a child.If your son sees you not bothered by it, and not emotionally shaken, he will learn from that and develop a sense of confidence and control.If he sees you fall apart (not saying you are (nor do I mean “you” = “jerry”) he will develop a fear.To a certain extent we all take cues like this from people in charge or people we get info from. The degree to which the nightly news sees the Korean threat as a problem (or a storm coming) directly effects how much anxiety we have.The best thing is to simply lessen the anxiety. Same as you would want a doctor to do. You want the doctor to be in charge, know his shit, and not (unless you really are going to die the next week) show hope which makes you feel more confident. Can’t see any value at all in falling apart. (Again none of this is directed at you Jerry your comment is just a way for me to voice this).I remember growing up (as I’m sure you did) with the nightly news at dinner talking about the latest that happened in Vietnam. Also about the conflicts in Israel at the time (70’s). Israel was a bigger deal because my father imported from that country and was worried about his suppliers getting bombed. So we had to shut up whenever anything about Israel was mentioned on the radio or TV.
My 12 year old son asked me last night, “Does it seem like the world is becoming more violent?”I realize that this is in part because he is becoming more aware of events. I feel blessed that my son has been exposed to so little violence. I ache for those mothers who cannot say that.
I moved to NYC from Boston and started work on September 10, 2001. I saw the second plane hit, got caught in the chaos, and *really* wanted to move back to Boston. Because I couldn’t afford to move anywhere, I stayed, and am glad I did.Over the next year I fell in love with NYC, and learned the importance of carrying on & doing what you planned.I’ve been running marathons for a few years with the goal of qualifying for Boston. But qualifying for Boston is challenging, and I’ve struggled with injuries (and laziness). Yesterday’s tragic events will make me double my efforts.
Harvard Law Prof Alan Dershowitz wrote a book called “Why Terrorism Works’ – which I found fascinating.The authorities are really up against it. They get hit whichever way they turn. A true Hobson’s choice. The game theory and psychology at play is mind boggling.http://www.amazon.com/Why-T…
My deepest sympathies to these families
This type of attack is very different to the the 9/11 type of intense-scale of physical brute-force – this is guerilla-tactics, more akin to what we last had in London a few years ago – 7/7 – when some 50+ people died and hundreds were seriously injured – it’s also more like the many bombings/associated fear we suffered during the peak years of IRA activities in the UK, especially in London and other major UK cities. Those were terrible years in London, never knowing what could happen – I lived/worked there then – and in Belfast sometimes, along with Tel Aviv during eras of similar attacks being commonplace. As you say, Fred, you need to ‘get back on the horse’ ASAP and carry-on, but when they are frequent it is very mentally challenging – after 7/7 we thought we were again entering the IRA period of threats but even more disturbingly with suicide-bombers – luckily we have had nothing such since but it will only be a question of time, one can only sadly conclude…Such guerilla-styles of terrorism are very, very hard to detect and prevent as it is so discreet/executed via a lone-wolf or two, and targeted at soft-target crowded urban areas where even a small explosive will cause maximum human loss and impact. The disgust and hatred of the mind that loads such explosives with shrapnel such as ball-bearings is one that is hard to fathom. Whether we will ever fully understand and resolve the reasons some people have such hate is one of our biggest challenges. Much of the world is a very bitter place – and getting more so – and we must set addressing this as a priority. War is not the answer in such circumstances.Having spent a lot of my time in and around Boston in the past it’s hard to digest such a genteel place being a target, but it’s sadly a reminder that it can happen anytime, anywhere.My thoughts and prayers go out to those impacted. Much love to you all.Be safe, folks x
thank you.these things happen so often in so many places: tragedies all the time. now, here.these things have to stop. how?i don’t think war is the answer — it just incites more war. there is never enough force to stop force.there were light brigade demonstrations last night calling for peace, as there were people in union square calling for peace after 9.11.i am hoping the terrorists who did this were domestic and not foreign, so we are forced to examine ourselves, our politics, our discourse, and so there are no excuses for trumping up more wars.i was standing on 23rd and 5th when the second plane hit on 9/11; since nobody could imagine that the buildings would fall, i went into a conference room to teach ux to a group of japanese executives; when the buildings fell we all walked to a sushi place and read the news faxed to the restaurant from japan (i just looked at the photos). even then, we were all so connected; even then people sitting blocks away from tragedy could get updates on nearby events sent across the ocean.i believe in the future, and i believe that technology can make it bettermeanwhile, the sowing of more violence has to stop
I live a few blocks from the finish line and my husband is a two-time Boston runner, therefore we are a crazy marathon family. All of us were safe yesterday, having spent a marvelous morning playing ball in the spring weather and on and off watching the various classes of elite runners run their last few miles. We were home just before the blasts. One of the first people to check in with me on social media, however, was a Syrian friend from New York. Her social media stream has been filled with anguish and grief for two years now as she copes with losses amongst family and friends and battered patriotic pride. The depth of her simple question yesterday, “Are you guys okay?” was not lost upon me.
I was thinking about you actually & other friends in Boston. Glad that you’re all ok. I know that when something like this happens so close to you, you get a very different feeling & experience. You feel vulnerable, and then you feel very lucky to be unharmed.
And angry.
Very angry. Yes.
yes
It’s all the more shocking, somehow, because of the chosen city/event. I was in Boston on the 1st anniversary of 9/11 and the ceremony was very moving, naturally, and in the bars afterwards there was very much a feeling of ‘it couldn’t happen here – we’re not that kind of city/target’ – I concurred.To me, the attacks in places I have lived/worked in, such as Belfast/Tel Aviv/London/NYC are almost inevitable and certainly highly likely in troubled times – ie, they are seen as aggressive cities, symbolic of commerce/culture/politics that some object to. Thus, a target.In the UK there was a heightened increase of fear and contempt of the IRA when they started bombing – and killing – in the provincial cities such as Manchester and Birmingham – this will no doubt have a similar effect. No doubt that was also the intention.
I didn’t know you were from boston, nor that you were at the finish line. I am super glad you are ok.
So glad you are okay, Karen. I understand that okay is relative. My thoughts are with your city. Although at a time like this it feels like “our” city.
my wife runs it every year – this is her first in 9 she did not. she was assisting her charity (dan Faber cancer research) at the finish line and left 15 mins before the first bomb was detonated.While i am deeply grateful and i am sure there are hundreds of other stories like this that will emerge, i just cant fathom why anyone would do this. It makes me want to detach from this society and take my children off the grid.here is what the #bostonmarathonbomb hastag looked like about 30 seconds after the first explosion.http://youtu.be/Qr7CDl8qTCMback to work this morning……..not fun, not super motivated, but back at it….
About 5 months ago, a powerful bomb detonated in Beirut 1.5 blocks from my parents home. My very young nephew & nieces were literary in tears & some window glass debris lightly injured my father. My brother had passed by there 15 min earlier.Life carries on. Be strong. None of the terrorists will win anything.
Everyday life in countries like Lebanon can be so stressful. Sorry to hear this.
i remember that well william….lets hope your nieces and nephews in this instance learn to forget…..
Thanks. That brings the issue of how do you explain terrorism and what happened on Monday to young kids. That’s a tough one.
“It makes me want to detach from this society and take my children off the grid.”Do you mean “move out of a higher target city area to the country”?
Celebrate she is ok. It’s the only thing you can do. In 2004 we had a few trains bombed in Madrid. Two of them were inside Madrid biggest commuting station. Millions pass over there every month, me included. I still get chills when I’m there and think about it. These things are terrible, but we have to carry on.
“While I’m deeply grateful…”That’s how I would feel, too. Glad she’s okay, that your family is okay.
This passage from the article shared by Fred caught my attention: “Don’t glorify the terrorists and their actions by calling this part of a “war on terror.” Wars involve two legitimate sides. There’s only one legitimate side here; those on the other are criminals.”Whoever did this are cowards & evil.
Wars involve two legitimate sides. There’s only one legitimate side here; those on the other are criminals.That is well said. Thanks for sharing.
I like the sentiment but I’m not sure about the logic. Isn’t one of the primary reasons behind war that the “other side” is “not legitimate”?
Its not a war, it is a global social imbalance.I don’t do socialism. But it is more than apparent, at this point in history, that the globe’s wealth & power structures are tilted to a dangerous imbalance.We need to evolve our cultures to include the best of competition, indepedence, caring & commonwealth.In essence, terrorists are life’s biggest losers – striking blindly at defenceless innocents while using their perceptions of ‘exclusion’, ‘inferiority’ & ”helplessness’ to justify their atrocities.Whoever did this feels excluded, marginalized, helpless, angry and powerless. When they reach that point, there is not much we can do except find them and mete out justice. The arguments they use as justification are window dressing.But, as @JLM argues about guns (that the issue is ‘crazy people with guns, not guns’ – not the most elegant phrasing admittedly), what can we do to keep these people from getting to this point (its not about security really, its about people getting to the point where killing innocent people with a bomb seems like a sound plan).Given the shifting of wealth in America over the last 20 years, would you be shocked to find out that these people were homegrown? Obviously, you shouldn’t be, what with the news coverage of SW Ontario exporting young angry, marginalized men to terror groups lately.The days of pointing at some dusty location on the other side of the world and saying ‘what can we do except lock down everything in sight and carry on’ should be over.
^All the upvotes.
It’s nice to see people understanding the issues. But, I must say that we can’t know if this event was by the kind of people you describe. It could be a hired organization.But, one thing is for sure. I can’t help but ponder now (in a serious manner) why people in this country don’t see that we need to protect the US. Every US citizen should be considering how they will protect themselves. Things have just gotten too far out of hand to imagine the armed forces alone can protect any country.
Nonsense. The facts contradict everything you just said. I don’t know how else to put it.We don’t know who did this. It could be Islamic, home-grown or simply a crazy person with a keg of TNT for all we know right now.But let’s take a look at the primary organization of these kinds of activities. Al-queda was formed by a man of great means. He did not feel excluded, as he excluded himself. He did not feel helpless or powerless… he felt powerful. He felt that God (Allah) was on his side, and wanted him to kill infidels.Al-queda’s primary recruits are not from the lower class. They are actually educated men of some means.The 9/11 attackers were not marginalized victims of an unfair welfare state. The Ft. Hood shooter was gainfully employed.Add to that the fact that a vast majority of these kinds of attacks are perpetuated by followers of Allah from “some dusty location on the other side of the world”, and it’s clear to me that you aren’t interested in facts or logical deduction, only the molding of events to fit your emotional world view.The perpetrator was not a victim of society. And the probability is that we will find out that in fact, he was a follower of Allah from a dusty location on the other side of the globe and had everything going for him (likely a college student or graduate).That doesn’t mean it’s true in this case, it just means that your emotional assumptions about him being a poor little victim are wrong.”We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions” — Ronald Reagan
They FEEL that way (not me). Everything you laid out does not preclude them from those feelings. How many people who come from means and get post-secondary educations FEEL excluded and marginalized (hint: anyone who is not the BMOC / BWOC)?How many popular people willingly and with careless disregard for the outcomes go out of their way to make other people FEEL that way, so that they FEEL even more superior / successful.Making other people feel like losers is a time honoured tactic for people who want to feel like winners . That behaviour lights the fuse for these incidents.Are some of these people mentally ill? Certainly. Are most of them easily influenced? Absolutely. Did all of them, at some point, FEEL the way I suggested they had to feel? With out a doubt.Osama was trying to right the wrongs of Western dominance over Islamic nations. He was attempting to turn the tide of 1000 years of cultural evolution. He was misguided in the most destructive, but also the most fundamental way. If he wanted Islam to rise to importance, he should have reflected on the internal forces that were (are?) holding back Islamic nations.It was and is emotionally stunted to blame others. That is where you choke off the supply – not at a security checkpoint.
Well now you’re going to have to explain to me how you make millions of people that get into a rage over cartoons feel warm and fuzzy….
Teach them to read, as a first step.
No James, there are simply people that are “bad seeds”. Plain and simple.
Totally agree – that accounts for 15% of the problem, don’t you think?
No I believe in the 80/20 rule. They are 80% of the problem and 20% of the population.
I am an 80 / 20 guy myself. I think 80% of terrorists are marginalized, emotionally vulnerable victims. I think 20% are mentally / emotionally unbalanced.The first 15% are delusional or schizophrenic or ‘bad seeds’.The other 5% are the ‘brains’ of these outfits – highly functioning sociopaths.
“Add to that the fact that a vast majority of these kinds of attacks are perpetuated by followers of Allah” — unsubstantiated, unproven allegation, fueled only by its own repetition.
Well ok but there is certainly more hard evidence of that than that the US government is behind them.
oh really? as you may know this is my favorite topic to discuss and i’m happy to have this conversation for the several hundredth time. we can pick any event you want as a focal point, i always favor 9/11 because of the abundance of information about it and its significance.1. there has never been a criminal investigation of 9/112. bin laden has denied responsibility: http://archives.cnn.com/200…3. there is so much evidence for me to share and i’m happy to cite as much of it as i can, though i always start with building 7, the building not hit by a plane and which a peer-reviewed group of architects and engineers describe as a controlled demolition. http://journalof911studies.com4. kevin mcpadden, 9/11 first responder, is a witness who says there was a countdown to a controlled demolition: http://www.youtube.com/watc…5. meanwhile, 9/11 commission members say they were set up to fail: http://www.youtube.com/watc…6. firefighters protocol for handling 9/11 was violated — this is one of many “sub-crimes” that does not get acknowledged and should be prosecuted as well firefightersfor911truth.org7. of course there is the huge issue of who benefited? i.e. patriot act, wars, etc.but i know all of that is not enough, and it is much easier to just blame a bunch of foreigners, even though there is virtually no evidence against them, in spite of the fact that there has never been a criminal investigation into 9/11, and that FBI chief of investigative publicity rex tomb has stated that bin laden was never on the FBI’s most wanted list for 9/11 because there was “no hard evidence” against him.
Can we just start here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/worl…
as i cited, CNN reported he denied it. so who’s telling the truth? you can dig deeper and do your own research, or you can believe whatever’s comfortable and blame it on some foreigners and dismiss anyone who disagrees, like hundreds of government officials, and tell yourself that it’s a clear cut case when there’s never been a criminal investigation.
I’ll just say “I’m not 100% sure” and focus on creating the world I want to live in. I don’t know what else to do.
well if you’re not 100% sure, perhaps you should remember that before claiming with great certainty that it was perpetrated by muslims.
I didn’t.
you statedWell ok but there is certainly more hard evidence of that than that the US government is behind them.now you admit that you don’t more hard evidence. so you can stop claiming you do.
I didn’t admit any such thing. I said I’m not 100% sure on 9/11. I will stand by my claim that there is far more evidence that these kinds of bombings in the past were the work of Islamic radicals than the US Government.
if you have evidence, present it. till then, your claim is nothing more than a reflection of your willful ignorance.
i am siding with Andy in this beef
hahahhaha! thanks for chiming in! it is unfortunate that you have chosen to side with blaming muslim people when you have no evidence for doing so, but your participation in this beef is appreciated nonetheless. 🙂
it’s not about blaming muslim people. if that is what the beef is about then i take my words back. i am for not believing our government was involved.
just to recap, andy made a comment saying (paraphrasing here) a bunch of muslims do the terrorist stuff, i said there was no proof of that and challenged him to present, he didnt accept the challenge but re-asserted his right to make the unsubstantiated claim anyway. so in that sense i would interpret siding with andy as siding with the “muslims are out to get us” theory of terrorism. but i understand what you mean now and appreciate your clarification.of course if you do have a viewpoint on who is responsible for terrorist acts like 9/11 you are most welcome to share! i’m sure our government, which has never launched an investigation into 9/11, and george bush jr, who would only testify to the 9/11 commission if his testimony was not under oath and if dick cheney was with him, would love to find out who is responsible.
sorry for wading into a beef late.
no worries! your free to defend your comments and express your beliefs on who carried out the yet-to-be-investigated crimes of 9/11 if you’d like. but if you’re too scared or haven’t done your research no worries, that is after all exactly what is expected.
Fine here’s a good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…In most of those, there were criminal proceedings, investigative conclusions or admissions of guilt/claiming of responsibility.If you can show me hard evidence of US Government involvement that refutes most of those, I’m happy to listen. So far the only things you’ve listed are circumstantial at best, and related only to 9/11.If you’re right, then the Federal Government is FAR more competent and tightly controlled than I’ve ever considered or had demonstrated to me in a manner other than “they didn’t follow protocol” and “I heard someone count down” or “they used the word PULL”
thank you for your reply. now we’re getting somewhere.first, a clarification: i haven’t listed circumstantial matters pertaining to 9/11. a peer-reviewed study by architects, engineers, and physicists explaining the science behind a controlled demolition on 9/11 is precisely what constitutes hard evidence.regarding radical islam: i don’t dispute the information in the wikipedia link you presented. your initial comment that sparked this discussion was that the majority of “these type of attacks” was perpetrated by followers of allah. i interpreted “these type of attacks” to reference attacks that have occurred in the continental United States. on the wiki page you shared, there are 2 attacks that occurred in the US: WTC 1993 and 2001. i dispute both but focus on 9/11 because it is a slam dunk case.you can extrapolate islamic radicalism that occurs in other countries to the united states, although there is no hard evidence for this. it is also worth noting that almost the entire list of events on the wikipedia page occur after 1980. zbigniew brezinski himself acknowledges the mujahadeen was strengthened and armed by western intelligence to weaken russia: http://www.globalresearch.c…through their own admission, western intelligence agencies has sown the seeds of islamic radicalism.
Do agree with your final statement. The US is notoriously short-sighted when it comes to taking sides in conflicts.”These types of attacks” I meant relatively small explosives in crowded civillian areas. I take into account those few that were successful on US soil along with those not successful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…To me, this has the markings of a “domestic Islamist”….someone that is attacking society rather than the government, trying to create terror rather than punish specific entities, etc. Again– that’s just my assessment of probability, NOT my conclusion.I guess we’ll find out in the future.Then again, “kooks” like you always have the fall back position of “of course the government isn’t going to blame the government he was a stooge” going for them. Makes it really impossible to KNOW the truth. That’s not a knock on you or conspiracy in general…just nature of the beast. It’s difficult for someone like me that doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY TRUST government, but also has trouble
I know, they sound just like kooks trying to prop up a homegrown 9/11 theory.Just to be clear, that is a shot Kid. I don’t buy any kookology.
i know you don’t buy any kookology. people who run their mouth without studying never do.but instead of telling us what you don’t believe, tell us what you do believe, and support it. this is my standard response, and usually enough to have the other person not reply, because after all, they haven’t done any research, they’re too lazy to, and they don’t want to know the truth anyway.
I’ve done research on conspiracy theorists…..its not flattering.I don’t spend time engaging with people whose starting point is ‘I know things you do not know or do not want to see.’ When our core disagreement is the facts that compose our reality, we are wasting our time ( I have actually dealt with this issue in two separate business situations, its a headache ).On this topic, let’s go with this: whoever is responsible here in Boston, they are not emotionally sound. It would be great if we could reach those people before they acted.
exactly. you have no thesis, no evidence. you just want to run your mouth but can’t back it up. it’s this ignorant, cowardly mentality that is the only thing wrong with the world.
That’s beneath you and this forum.My initial comment was merely to remind people, on a day when emotions are running a little high, that your description works both ways. And maybe to help us realize that these events are too complicated to knit together perfectly.People could have taken my comment as a ‘kook / comrades in arms comment’. I wanted to make sure that it was not taken that way.I am a sceptic, but I don’t default to everything being a shadow government plot.Sometimes, bad things happen.
i dont consider my comments to beneath me or anything else. people who wish to insult and dismiss kookology, a discipline supported by hundreds of government officials and scientific experts, while refusing to discuss it and elaborate on their viewpoints are only perpetuating the problems in the world and thus i consider it appropriate and just to point this out.
Yes, of course, I would be shocked to find out that “these people” are homegrown. And deeply saddened.But then I am already shocked and deeply saddened.
Just to be clear Donna, I am implying nothing other than more than one person when I use the words ‘these people’.Obv., others may mean more with that choice.
Thanks, James. By using quotes, I didn’t mean to insinuate that you meant anything in particular by the words.
Sorry…you declare war when you attack.No justification is acceptable for action of this kind.
I agree, but what is the best plan of attack? I say attack their supply lines as well as their operations.
On your first sentence: I agree with you from a moral standpoint, but bellicose rumblings notwithstanding, recent history proves that statement incorrect.
Glad to accept this as a disagreement.Maybe I’m jaded and maybe I would have agreed with you had the 9/11 attack not been in my back yard. I accept my jaded point of view although I’m not religious about this nor much.I’ll still buy you a drink if you come to New York.
I was replying to your first sentence only.The fact is that we’ve been quite light on for declarations of war since 1943. Many of the wars fought in the last century had neither a formal declaration nor congressional approval. Quite a number lacked even tacit UN authorisation. I’m not US bashing here — our nations are bound by treaty so we come when you ask whatever the case.So, while I agree with you from a moral standpoint, it’s just not true that “you declare war when you attack”. If it were, we would.
Got it…Long day here. Unwinding finally and sipping a rather obscure, rather remarkable wine from the Savoie made from the amazingly scarce Gringet grape.New to me and the discovery is adding inspiration to a depleting day.
To the simple pleasures. Santé.
whoa, james. literacy deficits are at work here. civilization’s best weakness. causal inference literacy is today’s poster child. the causal inference literacy vacuum is lethal, literally, it commands man’s innate desire for closure (a/k/a jumping to conclusions) and predisposition for restoring fairness (a/k/a meting punishment) to attention. the media echoing a hypothesis no-matter-how-absurd (a/k/a meme), a chart with dots connected by a line (a/k/a evidence) or a dude in a lacy dress or a fancy suit pounding the table naming demons (a/k/a protector) hack, every time, the human logic processor. man needs to recognize this hack, stop being faked out. it’s our greatest opportunity and hope for the future. btw james, it could be global social imbalance as you suggest, only requesting in this post you to remain open minded. Could be an outlier in this instance, some nut job trying to show pressure cookers don’t kill people. Let’s try to be scientific by example, and not table pounders. okay? We can set a better example. Argue literacy every time you have an opportunity like this, perhaps others concur, will join the movement to reduce the deficit.https://twitter.com/tabqwer…
I have a M.Sc. in Human Communication, Perception & Cognition. I am the choir.Your points on the hacking of human perception are, each one, right on the money.However, I don’t think I am pounding the table, merely suggesting that the next step in cultural evolution needs to be less black and white; less I win & you lose; more connected.
at least i didn’t imply you donned a lacy frock while writing your post 🙂 i didn’t intend to offend, rather make a point re any of us, myself included, attributing blame. apologies if it came across harsh.the perp apparently is sufficiently willing to not play by society’s rules. the perp’s apparently a coward or would have already stepped forward. we shouldn’t really care if the perp has blond hair, is broke, has blue skin, worships asteroids or feels dissed by Boston, the marathon operators, a business competitor servicing the marathon, an authority, a participant in the marathon, or whatever. the bottom line is, again, the perp apparently is sufficiently willing to not play by society’s rules. full stop.next time around, and it’s inevitable unfortunately, it would be great if the media handled it better, more scientifically, didn’t reward the perp with the Vines of the result for his/her scrapbook, encouraging other imbalanced beings.shitty causal inference needs to be throttled. the sooner we get that as a society the sooner we can stop threatening / making / funding war and the personal losses that come with it. time to stop killing.
So true…
probably another government job, like most terrorism. boston PD running controlled explosion drills yesterday too. as anyone who passed AP kookology can tell you, running drills that are eerily similar to the reported terrorist event is how the government pulls all this stuff off and gets honest agents to do this work without them even knowing it.but whatever, people still can’t even accept something being up with 9/11, which is obvious as the sky is blue — you could have failed AP kookology and still gotten that one right if you have any shred of intellectual honesty and psychological fortitude. let’s see what laws they try to ram through and what countries need to be invaded in the wake of this. and of course more taxes! happy belated tax day everyone!
Paramedics probably ran drills on how to deal with collapsing, puking runners. That doesn’t indicate that they poisoned them.Of course the police run drills based on the potential threats in the days leading up to big events. That’s called training.
sure, you can believe that if you’d like. to me all major terrorist events in recent history — 9/11, sandy hook, columbine, oklahoma city, 7/7 — show many signs of being government sponsored terrorism. so anyone who comes from that perspective naturally believes this will be too, just like those who believe every act of terrorism is done by a lone nut with no motive will believe that is true in this instance.we don’t have much evidence on this one yet since it is only a day old. within a couple weeks we should have a clearer idea of who is responsible.
“But, Jefferson worried that the people – and the argument goes back to Thucydides and Aristotle – are easily misled. He also stressed, passionately and repeatedly, that it was essential for the people to understand the risks and benefits of government, to educate themselves, and to involve themselves in the political process.Without that, he said, the wolves will take over.” ~ Carl Sagan.
the wolves have definitely taken over and are in full control. i give the founders a lot of credit. what they did is the equivalent of building a great startup that lasted for almost 200 years. everything that has a beginning must have an end, but it was a good run.
Still, we have Google Glass, Facebook Home and all those new shiny iPhone/Android apps, eh?Wake up and smell the coffee, people.
“the wolves have definitely taken over and are in full control”That isn’t quite right. The people still have full control. They just don’t exercise it. I’ve always wanted to see *everyone* doing great. But, as much shit as I get from people about working instead of collecting a check. I’m really on the brink of losing interest.
earthquake just happened in iran: http://www.businessinsider….could be natural, but i wouldnt rule out tectonic warfare. on april 9, 2013, national nuclear day in iran to celebrate the development of peaceful nuclear energy, an earthquake struck the spot at which there was a nuclear reactor. http://www.reuters.com/arti…earthquake, on the site of a nuclear reactor, on nuclear day, in a country the US has warned against developing nuclear weapons. that to me seems pretty suspicious, and possibly a case of tectonic warfare. which is real and patented, see patent #4686605 at the USPTO.anyway. it’s a world of lies and the only solution is to stop ignoring it.
Until more people see and understand the venal behaviour exhibited by many politicians, bankers and corporations, nothing will ever change…
Carl, it’s the people in the corporatioin not the corporation itself. A corporation can do nothing itself. There needs to be people involved.
“probably another government job”So to be clear you are saying what happened in Boston was done by our government?
i would say there isn’t enough evidence at this point to say conclusively, like there is with all the other terrorism cases, because it is early and more information is still coming in. but i would view the national government, probably FBI involvement, as the most probable culprit.
muslim brotherhood denies attacks: http://www.washingtonpost.c…
hahhaha here we go! chris matthews of MSNBC infamy suggests it might be tax day protesters: http://washingtonexaminer.c…almost certainly not tax day protesters, but a good excuse to shame those who legitimately dispute excessive taxation.
here’s a bit of advanced kookology for you. the official term for it is “revelation of the method.” it basically is when mainstream entertainment foreshadows the big event. check out this family guy clip: http://www.youtube.com/watc…the revelation of the method for 9/11 stuff was out of control, so much of it…..there is an actor, i forget his name, dean something, who stated the CIA is on set trying to push scripts in a certain direction. and of course there is operation mockingbird, which is the CIA’s admitted plans to influence media.i’m sure this is all crazy for many of you — like i said it is advanced kookology. generally better to start with the more scientific stuff first before going into the psychological/spiritual/occult stuff. but ultimately it’s a spiritual war.
Such a senseless and terrible act. So hard to comprehend. And sad.
I wrote my thoughts if anyone is interested: http://andyswan.com/post/48…Today, I’m creating.
Beautiful. What a great photo, too.
Super-f-ing awesome!We will continue to create despite the blitz terror strategy. The aim is to destroy our morale – but that can’t be done. Especially in Boston, especially on Patriots Day.
I read about 30 patients were brought to Brigham and Women’s Hospital (BWH) which is a Level I Trauma Center in Boston. Not every hospital is a level one. This means that there were a lot of great doctors in situations for the very first time. My thoughts and prayers for this group of first reponders.
My professional take is that the bombing was carried out by an individual or small group ( 4 or less ) with military training. Why? Both bombs went off with about equal force ( the bombs were homemade and all white smoke and lake of a mushroom cloud indicate this) and from first reports seemed to contain ball bearings. (although I have heard reports of zippers nails etc) Second, the bombs were placed on an avenue of approach ( one right after a blind corner ) and set off consecutively. I am suprised they did not find one on the opposite of the road. Also the area that the first bomb went off had been swept so a scout team had been observing or had been aware of the law enforcement’s Tactics Techniques and Procedures (TTPs ) for countering Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) I bet the bombs were set off by cell phones and kill the cell phone freq was a good move.
Would only add to your analysis that the injuries indicate that they were detonated very low to the ground if not resting on the ground (likely bottom of trash can)…. which is obviously not ideal from the perspective of the bomber(s)…they were obviously prioritizing detection-avoidance over maximum impact…they wanted to get away.I’m curious why you think they were set off by cell phones… seems like an event like that with such predictable traffic flow and likely no specific target would be simpler to use a short timer?
That said, from what footage I saw the sods made reasonably clever use of the street furniture — plenty of missiles created post detonation.
“short timer?”Agree. Especially for this where there is not a target in particular (dignitary) probably could pull statistics from past races to determine approx time when the maximum amount of people would be in the area of the bomb and set the timer.
Just a rudimentary understanding of marathons will lead you to “just over 4 hours”. These went off at 4:10 into the race.
The bombs were set off within seconds of each other. Cell Phones allow you be out of the area and are more reliable than timers.Garage door openers are line of site.
Thanks
Follow up:Officials have told CNN that among the materials used in the attack on the marathon were some sort of timing device, a basic mixture of explosives and some sort of metal container containing nails and other projectiles. The FBI said late Tuesday that what appeared to be fragments of ball bearings, or BBs, and nails had been recovered and had possibly been contained in a pressure cooker.
I am still think military trained, technically saavy, domestic based.I am surprised about the timing device.
The bombs were set off within seconds of each other. Cell Phones allow you be out of the area and are more reliable than timers.Garage door openers are line of site.
“kill the cell phone freq was a good move”You’d have to kill more frequencies than that. I’ve got a RC Heli and transmitter that could easily have lifted a small payload off the roof of a building and land it anywhere. For a bit more money could easily buy something larger that could carry a larger payload. Some of these are so gyroed out and automated (with cameras) you don’t even have to spend that much time learning to fly.Edit: What I have couldn’t come close to carrying any weight. Simply pointing out the tools are easily available and there are many frequencies (even illegal ones I would imagine) that could be used. Obviously you aren’t going to kill what police, fire or ems use as only one example.
I was just speaking on what was plausiable based on a information that police had footage of man with a backpack placing the IEDs.
Other freqs are plausiable. I am just going off what was reported and the play I saw called.and the counter move I know to stop secondary devices targeting first responders
I think this kind of stuff happens in Iraq quite often
I/we hear you but this is a pointless stance – heartbreaking, yes, but like poverty and begging it shocks more when seen in NYC or London, whilst it is commonplace elsewhere.It’s not equitable, certainly, a life is a life, all are equally valuable. It’s not meant to be patronising or elitist but is a fact of life. No different to when a member of your own family contracts cancer: it is traumatising to all involved and personally touched by it, whilst it’s happening to others all around us, every day. Emotions mean everything. We have a limited resource for grief. Another way to look at it:”Recession is when a neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours.” ~ Ronald Reagan.Tell me about it.
lol love that reagan quote!
Ditto. Unsure if he penned it, but is attributed to him – tragically and beautifully simple, and oh-so-true – seeing it every day around here…
Thoughts and condolences to all those in Boston and affected around the world. I feel so terrible for the innocent civilians – running for themselves or to accomplish major goals, sponsoring a charity, or in the memory/ support of a loved one, and the bystanders and race staff – who are now a part of this tragedy. Let’s spread a lot of love today.Indescribable gratitude to those who ran *toward* the explosions.I wrote some personal thoughts here, http://tinyurl.com/d9yl3ck
I never know what to say after tragedies like this. I find it incredibly sad, particularly at an event like this one; where people have worked so hard to participate in it, or given their time as volunteers.
Interesting alternative viewpoint on dealing with 9/11, Thatcher surviving assassination attempt (which is often forgotten about), yesterday’s Boston bombings … via @NewYorker …http://www.newyorker.com/on…
It would be great if we could learn to recycle our anger better. Anger can be very useful if used wisely. I find that which gets me outraged is so uncomfortable to have inside me that I must act outwardly. Katrina made me livid, and our preschool adopted and clothed and furnished another preschool which was badly hit, for many months, as a result of my anger needing outlet.So I ask what will we do about this, if it speaks to us, to make for less of yesterday’s troubles. What did we learn yesterday? Will it make us smarter?
Smarter? Sadly, unlikely. More likely: it will just lead to more placebo-security legislation.”Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” ~ George Orwell.
There is a difference in individual smarts and group smarts. I believe in self organizing systems, so if we each get smarter then the group gets smarter. I agree in your cynical view of legislation. We counter that by personal acts and accountability, no?
Society is becoming more polarised, more fragmented, more dysfunctional – we’ve not yet seen the start of the true economic and social chaos that’s lurking in the shadows. Our cultures have been taught it’s cool to be meme/screw your neighbour – it’s why the venal behaviour of bankers/politicians/corporations has been largely ignored – sanctioned, almost.Our personal credo is what matters, absolutely – but the clock is ticking. Good people need to be more empowered – too many arseholes run the world and its assets.
BAD THINGS HAPPEN.MAKE BETTER THINGS HAPPEN.
Bombs… Hey! I am stuck in Mexico. Not behaving good says embassy so no new passport. Hmmm… make better things happen? FAKE GRIN: Hey! they think I am stuck in Mexico 🙂 Anybody wanna film a political rebel (h)activist crossing into the US as a wetback? She is writing the story about Captain Jack’s long lost love: “Jackie Sparrow of the Caribbean”, so maybe a boat ride would be in order? FAKE GRIN: Yeah! I am making things better! Peace & Fun Wars, Magdalena Highlander (talk to John, he’s my “agent”)
.This attack was the act of cowards, evil cowards for sure. The kind of people who lurk in the shadows and wait for a chance to destroy lives because their existence is so pathetic and sad.This was not the act of a madman who held strong views — it was not a suicide bomber. Thank God. It was the act of calculating cowards unwilling to engage directly and therefore driven to simply destroy and watch.They will be caught.JLM.
I love that the stock market is up. Shows how resilient America is.Was with my son in China the day they caught Osama and his picture was everywhere. He was 7 at the time so I sat down and explained what he did and the affect that terrorists are trying to have. At seven he was as confused as I am about why people do such horrific acts against the innocent.
“I love that the stock market is up. Shows how tough America is.”Good grief.
Love that London is not backing away either. My point is that we can not let terrorist affect us, not that someone is making a profit. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…
Welcome to earth. What planet are you from?
lol #upvoted
.As a former demo guy, this is what I think one can learn from the visual evidence and facts thus far.The bombs were constructed from a very fast explosive — C4, PETN, Semtex — which expands at a rate faster than the speed of sound. This is why there were so many traumatic amputations — projectiles being driven at a very high speed impacting on soft flesh and brittle bones. Huge cutting power. This is the same type of explosive that is used to cut steel.The bomb was at the ground level and was “aimed” into the crowd along the street in some manner. This is based on the fact that most traumatic amputations were at the ankle, knee level.Also the fact that there was almost no damage to windows in buildings on the other side of the street or on the same side of the street.The shock waves and shrapnel were concentrated at the ground level and were reflected by the hard street surface. This concentration of projectiles and shrapnel is deadly simply because of its concentration.The bomb was “tamped” — held down in some fashion to direct the blast and the shrapnel across the street surface. This is evident because there was no real explosive plume and the fact that upper windows were not destroyed.The bombs were likely in the 20-25 lbs range given their magnitude.The bombs were likely laced with projectiles because of the extent of the injuries. There was a lot of metal flying through the air and there was not really that much organic metal in the area. The metal does the cutting of bones and amputation not the blast.It is highly likely that the bombs were detonated by a cell phone trigger — that is the current state of the art. The investigators will be able to find remnants of a phone, battery and some short copper wire.They will be able to identify the explosive chemistry from the combustion by products. The explosive itself will narrow the field considerably.The perp likely was watching the explosions from the other side of the street, up high so he could see both simultaneously. The delay was his calling two different cell phone triggers.I attach a photo of an explosion in which the explosive was not aimed or tamped. It was also underwater. What you can see is a plume — the natural reaction of an explosion going into the air. The Boston explosions were directional and tamped for the reasons I indicated above. This picture was likely 50 lbs. It was C4. I blew a lot of concrete columns and abutments that day and some I used 250 lbs of C4 but I am pretty sure this was about 50 lbs.Last thought: this is why we should be generous in what we allow the NSA and law enforcement to do in regard to listening in on shitheads. These are the kind of guys they are talking about.JLM.
.If you look very carefully at this picture, the bridge column is flying out to the left rear and front while the explosive blast is going upward after separating them from the riverbed.JLM.
“Last thought: this is why we should be generous in what we allow the NSA and law enforcement to do in regard to listening in”Agree. But this is when people come out and all you hear is the opposite that the government will use this as an opportunity to listen in. Or complain about how they have to take their shoes off at the airport. Or some stranger might see them naked in an xray and they are being violated. [1]Or this person:http://s.ai/tsaThe TSA has a de facto program of violating the rights of disabled travelers like me, and I’m fed up with it. They’re routinely violating not just clearly established law, but their own policy. I want this to stop.[1] Remembering back in the day when I got suits at the mens store as a kid and the man always gave a tug to my crouch and told my mom “it fits well in the croch”. I’m guessing they dont’ do that anymore.
[1] You’re correct; they don’t do that anymore.
.None of the great successes that have been made by the NSA and CIA are known.Those who know do not talk.Those that talk do not know.We need to realize that our safety is underwritten by men in the shadows who do things that the ACLU will not approve of and who are not meticulous in following hard edged rules but who are very, very effective at what they do.If I were a betting man, I would bet that the supply of virgins in Heaven is running quite low due to the number of the faithful who have been so dispatched.JLM.
Agree. People have no idea what goes on and have to have a certain degree of trust if they want a good outcome. Reading things people write with second hand knowledge is not enough info to pass judgement.My dad survived the camps but after the war since he knew english (most survivors didn’t apparently) and he worked with the OSS. I have pictures of him in an American uniform in a jeep.In Philadelphia they had a program for a number of years where you could put a sticker on your car and it gave the police the right to stop the car for any reason. As a way to curb car theft. My father signed up for it right away he didn’t care if he was stopped at all.I thought that the program had been legally challenged but apparently it’s still active:http://blog.phillypolice.co…The S.A.V.E. [Stolen Auto Verification Effort] Program is an effort in which citizens register their vehicles with the police department for the application of a special decal to their car window. Enrollment in the program permits officers to stop their vehicles and conduct an ownership investigation when the vehicle is being operated on the streets of Philadelphia between the hours of 12:00AM and 6:00AM, Seven days a week.
The talking to knowing ratio is a classic statement.
JLM, I have to meet you.
.I am always available for BBQ. Where there is good BBQ, I will be there.Or as is said: “The Q, the Q is on you, my friend.”JLM.
Ten four! I will make it happen.
Best to meet JLM in his own environment. County Line BBQ, Austin.
.Where the Hill Country and a lovely sunset kiss the BBQ.And they have cold cerveza and great big beef ribs.Made all the better by great company.I only hope I am in that level of Heaven in the hereafter.JLM.
“Last thought: this is why we should be generous in what we allow the NSA and law enforcement to do in regard to listening in on shitheads. These are the kind of guys they are talking about.”Unfortunately I don’t see the smart ones being dumb enough to communicate digitally about their plans / activities, etc..
.Nobody can hide from all the technology out there.Once they identify the explosive used, it is game on. The supply of such fast explosives is quite small and the chemical identifiers are conclusive. This is very low hanging fruit.The cell phone triggers will be found and the cell phone calls will be traced. This is very low hanging fruit.The huge volume of video in the area will turn out to provide a huge amount of clues.These shitheads will be caught.The perps were in the area on the opposite side of the street up high so they could see both blasts. They will be caught.JLM.
Thank you JLM from a 30-year Bostonian.
.Many a great time has been had by this laddie in Boston. It was the jumping off point for many an adventure and where I came home via the QEII with my first and only wife over 30 years ago.A lifetime ago raising money from the likes of AEW (when all the guys with the initials were still alive and had just invented the pension fund advisory business) and Fidelity.At times I have been willing to consider swearing off TexMex for a couple of months for a big bowl of Union Oyster House clam chowder.I raised a lot of money at the old Grill 23. When it was brand new in the early 1980s.Boston’s fame as the birthplace of America’s liberty makes the bombing all that more hurtful and ironic. The fact that it was the Marathon makes it personal.They will be caught.JLM.
Stolen explosives (or chemicals to creat ethem), stolen phones – where you can’t then lookup video surveillance or other data related.I do hope I’m wrong – and that you’re right.
.Nobody is making such explosives themselves because the main ingredient RDX is a powder explosive that is next to impossible to obtain. It is then bound up in a water/chemical process with a binder and a bit of motor oil. It could be done. Not easy.C4 is highly malleable — can be formed to any shape by hand like modeling clay. Typically comes in 12 inch by 1 x 2 bars weighing 1.25 lbs. Usually with a mylar wrapper.C4 has a distinct chemical signature when it is made. On purpose, like a mint mark. They can detect this from explosive residue.The bomb maker undoubtedly used a one time phone set up but still it had to be bought somewhere. That is the first link in the chain.It had to have phone service.They will be caught.The fact that nobody has taken credit for it — even crazy persons — is very interesting.JLM.
or they will be killed
.The preferred solution really given the cost of imprisoning and trying shitheads these days.Khalid Sheikh Mohammed should have had a funeral rather than the long drawn out drama of his 10-year saga of imprisonment and no trial yet.The cheaper and more cost effective solution, to be sure. And why not?JLM.
Even if 3/4 of your theorizing turned out to be wrong I’ve learned more in one post than I could get in an entire day of television news. Many thanks..
JLM why do you think that this was a cellphone trigger? To me, that seems like a more complex option than a short timer. Since there were no specific targets, and no specific timing necessary (anything from 3:30 to 4:30 in race time would have equal impact)…. why not drop and go?
.Purely speculation on my part. Nothing more. Your speculation is as good as mine.The blasts were very close together. That makes me think the perp called one cell phone and initiated the explosion and then simply called the other cell phone number.The problem with timers is that they have to be set on the spot. They are not that accurate.One is not likely to be carrying a ticking time bomb along with themselves when walking to the site. A timer would have to provide its own electrical source — a bigger battery.The cell phone provides its own electricity and would likely be using a “micro” switch to initiate detonation.The cell phone trigger is a command detonated trigger. I think a perp out there today wants to watch the explosion. Just a gut reaction.Cell phone triggers are a pretty simple matter these days. Being used daily in A’stan and Iraq.I also suspect this will ultimately be a key to who was behind this terrorist act. Bombers all have their own tried and true signature of how they like to do things.C4 has a chemical signature that is added at the time of manufacture.Recent comments about the bombs having been built inside a “pressure cooker” are consistent with Pakistan moreso than say Iraq or Afghanistan.A pressure cooker with an open inlet on top is perfect for attaching an external cell phone. It would contain about 20 lbs of C4 which would provide quite a blast.JLM.
Thanks. Perfect
Always nice to have you around. pardner.
Follow up:Officials have told CNN that among the materials used in the attack on the marathon were some sort of timing device, a basic mixture of explosives and some sort of metal container containing nails and other projectiles. The FBI said late Tuesday that what appeared to be fragments of ball bearings, or BBs, and nails had been recovered and had possibly been contained in a pressure cooker.One federal law enforcement source told CNN’s Deborah Feyerick the devices contained “low-velocity improvised explosive mixture — perhaps flash-powder or sugar chlorate mixture likely packed with nails or shrapnel.”
I’m not doing it anymore, but I’ve been going monthly to Boston for more than a couple years and running Boston Marathon someday is my aspiration when I improve my mark and qualify. I keep a few good friends there. I love the city. Seeing images of the bombings made me feel like I felt when Madrid, where I live, was attacked in 2004. Here we had almost two hundred casualties, but the feeling is the same. And I hate it.
Some pictures are up at http://www.boston.com/bigpi…Not the easiest to stomach, but I am grateful that so many of the photos show random people from the crowd doing whatever they can to help those in need, be it using their own shirt for a tourniquet, propping up someone’s leg, helping an EMT, applying pressure, consoling a stranger… Showing people not fleeing, but there to help, to protect, to overcome, being brave.
.Look at picture no 1 — the second explosion, disorganized white smoke plume. The white smoke indicates a very fast explosive with almost no combustible material, no heaving, no ground fracture and directional given how the smoke edges out into the street.Look at picture no 19 — the window glass is on the street indicating that it was not blown in but rather sucked out. This indicates the explosion was directional with projectiles being aimed like a Claymore mine. The shock wave from the explosion sucked the air away from those windows and they were shattered by the movement of the air. Street level glass would be tempered and tough to break unless the deflection is great enough to shatter it. Note that the windows next door did not break. The tempered glass did its job absorbing force but not creating shards.JLM.
Appalling.
Someone else already commented on how this is day-to-day life in other parts of the world. That was the second thing that came to mind when I heard the news. The first thing was my daughter is in law school in Boston and Monday being her day off I feared she had gone to watch. She answered her phone with “I’m okay Mom.” She had already checked on the well-being of her friends so by then I was intruding on study time. There was that bit of irritability, really Mom, just calm down I’m studying. Never has that display of independence sounded so sweet.
Tweeted this last night, but Ross Douthat of the New York Times had a good post about this, with a similar sentiment as Shneier: http://douthat.blogs.nytime…A couple of other thoughts: – Your comment about riding the subways after 9/11 reminds me of that time. It’s hard to imagine now, but there was a fear back then that NYC’s economy might suffer a prolonged slump if people were afraid to go there and spend money. So, as soon as Broadway reopened (toward the end of September), I went to see Rent for the 4th time (had taken out-of-towners a couple of times). Of course, it was set in the Lower East Side back when that was a dangerous neighborhood. One lyric jumped out that didn’t jump out at me the first few times I saw it, “I’m a New Yorker. Fear’s my life.” – If this attack turns out to have been perpetrated by a terrorist who is an immigrant from a country known for exporting terrorists, can we finally stop letting folks from those countries in for a while? I’m sure most of the people in Pakistan or Yemen or Somalia or Saudi Arabia wherever are swell folks, but can’t we do without them for a bit, and give them a chance to get their houses in order?
well the attack happened in boston and we don’t know who did it (muslim brotherhood has denied it) – it could be someone in vermont. i think boston should build a fence around the city and ban people from suspicious places like vermont until they get their act together.
Hard to believe the terrorists turned out to be from a violence-wracked Muslim land, Chechnya, and not Vermont. Really was a coin toss there, could’ve gone either way.
Where was sandy hook violence from? Where was Timothy McVeigh from? Where was the columbine kid from? DC sniper? all that is leaving aside the undisputed role of the West in fomenting radical Islam.
Fred Happy to know you are OK. I just hope who placed those bombs will soon be caught and he should be put to justice, harshly!
This topic has me so distraught I just closed the tab that I had already written a longish response in. I don’t have the energy to go put it all to words again.Thank you for allowing the opportunity for the AVC community to gather around this.
Now you know why client applications are a must. You need to get used to doing everything locally then publishing anywhere and everywhere!
I usually do, or at minimum select all + copy so it’s in clipboard
“I agree that we should keep calm and carry on.”Are you sure it isn’t time to keep calm and start making changes? Isn’t it time Americans start to take back their country and re-create the greatness it once had? People are so caught up in “carrying on” that they are letting this country go down the toliet.
#realtalk
Why do you put those comments up? What does that mean?
real talk is a slang term, here is the definition from urban dictionary which i agree with: Real Talk can be used in the sense to affirm what someone is saying as a true, or valid statement and that they are expressing sincere thoughts and opinions.so when i leave a comment #realtalk that means i believe whoever i am replying to is leaving a very candid comment that i regard as true. consider it a compliment from me 🙂
Cool, thanks. I was beginning to think you wanted me to visit twitter or some website that used that as a tag or something. I don’t use twitter. I can’t get people to form a complete sentence when they’re standing right in front of me. Let alone when they’re typing the words with their thumbs.
Using Twitter has improved my communication skills. Conciseness never was a strength. I’ve become much better at it.
I think our attitude/approach re terrorism versus other risks we face every day is going to have to change. 9/11 killed 3,000 Americans, Without taking anything away from the horror of that, it’s a tiny fraction of annual automotive deaths (to use just one example) yet for complicated psychological reasons we accept traffic deaths as an inevitable risk but have turned our society literally upside down to prevent another terrorist attack. If we define the game as preventing any terrorist attacks, the terrorists win either way–the cost they have imposed on our society in loss of freedom and productivity is incalculable, and it’s impossible to maintain a 100% success rate playing defense, as yesterday shows. I have always been so impressed by the way the Israelis handled the bombings that were so frequent there for many years. News coverage was minimal and matter of fact, and after each attack the citizens made it a point to frequent the site of the attack in a show of solidarity and refusal to let the terrorists win by forcing them to change their daily lives. They viewed these attacks as a ‘cost of doing business’ (like traffic fatalities), not as society-altering events.Yes to the best intelligence and security we can field with reasonable impact on daily life. Yes to harshest possible consequences for terrorists who get caught. But no to security theater and the absence of any cost/benefit analysis when it comes to the TSA or other security procedures.
I thought I was keeping calm and carrying on. I’ve even posted on instagram, checked in on foursquare, tweeted, commented… but not really accomplishing as much today as I’d like… what I am really doing is going through the motions.I clicked on a link to Brad Feld’s blog where he was just being raw and in process and I realized that I this is where I am…and that’s okay. There will be time to decide how to respond, how to change, how to contribute…how to direct this anger.Was very relieved at the simplicity and honesty of what you wrote and your willingness to open the bar in case any of us just wanted to come in… when and if we felt like it.
Delayed main post from a Bostonian who learned “keep calm and carry on” from the Real Spidey” you know who you are. The Real Spidey is a GP I was fund raising for summer of 2001. 9/11 happened, I’d been on the UA ill-fated flight only 2 weeks before. Spidey spent a long time in NYC for school and for work. He insisted we travel to NYC to meet LPs so we did the third week in Sept 2001. He also insisted that we use the subway to get as close as we could to the site. I was scared to death to ride the subway. He calmly said “they can’t get a bomb into the subway.” It was a surreal experience forever etched in my mind. But carry on we did and flew all over during Q4 2001 and oversubscribed the fund. It’s one of the top performing 2001 funds. Helped launch my career as a placement agent. Without his “calm, carry on” attitude, I’m not sure I could have. Only a couple of years later I met two very eager, smart and hungry GPs, Brad and Fred, and raising their first fund helped my career even more. So to everyone, as Fred and the Real Spidey say, “stay calm and carry on.” Boston will survive and be stronger than it’s ever been. We love to beat on our big brother NYC, but we’ve learned a lot from them too.
Great story, Dayna. Great reflections. Loved hearing about Fred and Brad as “two very eager, smart and hungry GPs” I can almost envision this.I think that it was in the aftermath of 9/11 that I first began to feel a kinship with NYC and at that time I’d never been.
the change in employment rates has almost nothing to do with the presidents and is primarily a result of the sharp increase in interest rates that occurred in the early 80s.
Thanks for clarification, Charlie!
Well said, Charlie.