Tech Is NYC's Second Largest Job Sector

I am a bit surprised by this report, which says that NYC's second largest job sector is tech. According to The Verge, which wrote a post about this report:

Dr. Mandel counts 262,000 well-paying jobs in tech and information, an 11 percent jump since the economy crashed in 2007. The $30 billion in annual wages generated by the tech sector is small compared to the $90 billion in wages paid to the still-dominant financial sector, but tech wages have grown since 2007 while finance wages decreased.

I would have thought the real estate sector was larger (it may be) and it is also a bit surprising to me that tech is bigger than media & entertainment.

One of NYC's great strengths is the diversity of its economy – finance, real estate, media & entertainment, retail, fashion, health care, education, and now tech. And the reason tech is growing so fast in NYC is that it is embedding itself in all of these other industries. It's not entirely clear to me whether Gilt is a tech company or a fashion/retail company, it is not clear to me whether ZocDoc is a tech company or a health care company, it is not clear to me whether Codecademy is a tech company or an education company.

And you know what? It doesn't really matter to anyone other than those whose job it is to count jobs in various sectors. What does matter is if you want to work in tech, build a new company using tech, and be part of a vibrant tech community, NYC is one of the best places in the world to do all of those things, and a lot more.

#NYC#VC & Technology

Comments (Archived):

  1. Julien

    Wait, isn’t software eating the world anywhere? I’m sure some people working for a bank or a financial institution do a lot more tech than anything related to finance! Eventually, “tech” is a just a tool, isn’t it?

    1. fredwilson

      yup. exactly my point in the final part of the post.

      1. JamesHRH

        Its a toughie though.In the late ’90’s, CGY Econ Dev folks had stats that said 30% of the economy was tech…….it turned out that 98% of it was tech for the energy industry……but it made them feel diversified.Gilt is a tech enabled fashion company.SW is eating the world, but only the paperwork half.

    2. Richard

      Yep, the industry trade journal “wall st technology” has been around for more than 10 years. Speed is paramount so it has been a C++ world.

  2. Tom Labus

    Tech is embedded in every sector especially finance.

  3. awaldstein

    Who knows what tech is anyway….but these numbers, which I posted on Tumblr yesterday (and still getting reblogged), are a tasty treat regardless.I look at this as a cultural realization that the web is simply part of how we build businesses and live life. Sometimes it’s the location and the transactional center. Sometime simply an online ramp to street level connections. Sometimes just the transfer agent from decision to an action wherever it consummates.All goodness to my eyes.

  4. pointsnfigures

    A lot depends on how they define tech. Is the HFT trader a finance job or tech job? I’d argue tech.Lots of tech jobs in places like New York or Chicago in tech because of finance. Finance is increasingly a software business, not a people business. At the end of the day, three sectors will exist in the broad financial marketplace: Wealth Mangers (people business): Investment bankers that do M+A (relationship and people business) and VC (relationship and people business). Many wealth managers would go away too if people really understood Eugene Fama’s theory.Chicago has a very diverse economy too. But, the number one sector employing people is financial services. Accounting, Consulting, and the Exchanges. Without the exchanges, this place would have trouble.

    1. ShanaC

      in NY that would be finance.

      1. pointsnfigures

        Yup, it’s a bankers OPM town.

  5. falicon


    1. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

      +1 love the place where u live … or-else move out where you love.

      1. Matt A. Myers

        Or stay and help make it a place you can love.

        1. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

          +100 Matt.Be the change of what you want to change.P.S. sorry i can’t give more than one upvote 🙂

          1. Matt A. Myers

            That’s okay, you can have it back – I don’t need any

  6. Brandon Burns

    “It’s not entirely clear to me whether Gilt is a tech company or a fashion/retail company, it is not clear to me whether ZocDoc is a tech company or a health care company, it is not clear to me whether Codecademy is a tech company or an education company.”It’s abundantly clear. Gilt is retail. ZocDoc is health care. Codecademy is education.Everyone’s on the Internet; it’s not a differentiator. What you actually do on the Internet is what defines you.

    1. Richard

      Cleveland Clinic is a Healthcare Company, Aetna is an insurance company, Zocdoc is a marketing company. Cleveland Clinic uses 1000x more technology than Zocdoc.

      1. Brandon Burns

        Maybe the big tech VCs need to start looking at companies that don’t brand themselves as tech startups.Actually, scratch that “maybe” part.

  7. kidmercury

    lol i love the nycpride posts here in fredland. i will come back later to diss it some more but i just want to remind people of a little somethin’ somethin’ called COST OF LIVING, lol, have you people seen rent/food/drink/breathing costs in nyc, i know some of you will say it is no big deal, lol, if you want to be 35 years old and sharing a studio with a non-significant other NYC is your place to be (unless you’ve got lots of cash but even then why not enjoy it in some place where it will go much further?). i’ve lived in chicago, san francisco, nyc, and miami. if you are an extremely talented engineer i would recommend san francisco, if you have lots of money and can buy whatever you need i would recommend san francisco first and nyc if for some reason you are unable to go to sf, but for the rest of you, especially the bootstrappers, chicago is the place to be. #chitownpride

    1. awaldstein

      The old saying goes if the cost, the noise, the dirt, the congestion and the weather bother you, don’t come.All of them are true. None of them matter.

      1. kidmercury

        lol i suppose if you are running your business in a magical world where costs, and thus profits, do not matter, sure. tragically, though, i live in reality, where costs do matter and profits are essential. for other fellow inhabitants of reality, i think it will matter very much.

        1. awaldstein

          Exactly my strategy, ignore reality, spend money, pay no attention to anything.

    2. JimHirshfield

      Not sure any of your criteria are how 90% of people choose a city. Usually has more to do with roots, family, love, and job.

      1. kidmercury

        all my criteria are exactly related to the points you mentioned. to wit: most of the people i know who have families move out of nyc, because families cost more money and take more space. as for job, i addressed that the best engineers are better off in san francisco, and that bootstrapping entrepreneurs (i.e. the vast majority of entrepreneurs) are better off outside of the high prices of nyc.

        1. gorbachev

          Yep. This is exactly it.I moved to NYC when I was single. It was great.I now have a wife and three kids. If I didn’t have a cushy hedge fund job a few years ago to build up cash reserves and save up a down payment for a house, I absolutely couldn’t afford to comfortably live in NYC at all.

        2. KG18

          san francisco and silicon valley is expensive too – so then no boot-strappers should be there either???

          1. kidmercury

            bootstrappers are better off in cheaper areas. the big money incumbents have the advantage in nyc, valley, sf.

    3. Kirsten Lambertsen

      New York City: you either get it, or you don’t. Those of us who love NYC share something wonderful 🙂

      1. kidmercury

        i suppose it is better to share exorbitantly high prices than go it yourself! 🙂

        1. pointsnfigures

          I was in NYC last week. I like it for what it is. This massive heaving behemoth of people. Central Park is absolutely beautiful. Greenwich Village is cool, and so is SoHo. We walked all over the place. Public transportation is really good. I love the little restaurants.There is a lot to dislike. The garbage. The crowds. The cost. Being as old as I am, I’d miss the lakefront of Chicago and the open space we have all over the entire city.No place is perfect. There are businesses I would encourage entrepreneurs to start in NYC that they probably shouldn’t start anywhere else, because the inherent DNA is there. Same goes for Chicago.Be where you are happiest. One thing for sure, we have much better basketball here than they do-and they have two teams….

          1. kidmercury

            and football! lol giants 0-5, jets literally running into their own asses and creating turnovers……this past week eli threw 3 interceptions in the 4th quarter against one of the worst secondaries in nfl history…

          2. KG18

            nyc has a higher percentage of parkland than Chicago does (and surprisingly even more per resident)……and it has many many more miles waterfront (take your pick Hudson or East River, Jamaica Bay or the Atlantic Ocean, Long Island Sound or Raritan Bay if you really want the edge of the city). you can say chicago is cheaper… but quality of life??? NO. which is the main reason NYC is more expensive. And when taken into full account – Chicago is no cleaner… (Philly is dirtier than both).

    4. Richard

      Watch out for LA. It is the last of the Major Metro Cities in the US that has available land, countless buildings with open lofts and great architecture, and an amazing history. (LA’s broadway and 7th was the busiest intersection in the world in the roaring 20’s.)

      1. awaldstein

        Agree and a big fan (did two companies there). It has everything but transportation.

        1. Richard

          My reply went to your other comment. In sum, living in downtown LA is very similar to living in Midtown. I don’t plan on owning a car here.

          1. awaldstein

            Enjoy…we have had interest in opening a LuLiTonix there so maybe we will connect out there some time.

          2. LE

            we have had interest in opening a LuLiTonixDoes it make sense to choose something on the other coast as your next location rather than something closer?For example if you could open in Philly, DC or Boston as a next step that would prove that the concept would also work in more mainstream cities.I know a local restauranteur that had a great concept in restaurant rich center city Philly that worked very well.Then I heard he was opening in suburban NJ in a mall area.At first I thought “why would he do that” then I thought “ok he is doing that because he wants to rollout nationally and he is seeing if it ‘plays well in Peoria’ before going for the big money to back up his idea”. More or less the inverse of “make it here you can make it anywhere”. The market is much larger if it will work in a place that is less remarkable.

          3. awaldstein

            last line is a good one!

          4. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

            Yes and Yes….for the last line ….Instead of “remarkable” ….”receptive” would be an apt word..

          5. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

            I lived in Philly for 2-years … FoxChase …never owned a car ….bus-stop is literally at my door step…train-station is just 50-meters away…7/11 across the road … /dunkin-donuts diagonally across the road … 3-bars at 50-metersLiving in Midtown and enjoying downtown facilities is like ….working for $ and living in India 🙂

          6. Sarah Turner

            You are a glutton

      2. kidmercury

        yes. though i would like to i cannot diss LA because i know it has some underdog advantages here. transportation is still a disaster but the city def has its undervalued upside.

      3. JLM

        .The problem with LA, in the short term, is the state view on governance. Short term. Hopefully they get it fixed.JLM.

        1. kidmercury

          they sure do love their communism/fascism out in california!

        2. Richard

          Ive only been here a few weeks, but from what i see there’s a lot already in the works. The REIT money has set it eyes on the town. The crane count and new business count should be a pretty good predictor for future entrepreneurial activity.

      4. fredwilson

        i am very bullish on LA. it is the only other place in the US where i would live.

    5. Cam MacRae

      I dunno, Kid. There’s plenty of cities with a higher cost of living than NYC, but NYC has a certain je ne sais quoi. On the other hand I know some utterly brilliant people that wont live there because of the schools.

      1. pointsnfigures

        Not sure I know of a city with higher cost of living than NYC, unless it’s LA or SF-and possibly Washington DC.

        1. Cam MacRae

          Depending on who you believe there are 12-15 of them including London, Hong Kong, Sydney, Singapore, Melbourne etc. She who must be obeyed and I actually had a disagreement animated discussion this afternoon about moving back to NYC to save money.

          1. Laura Yecies

            Living in the SF Bay area and just getting back from a week in NYC – NYC is clearly more expensive cost of living though SF is high.

          2. LE

            I think cost of living also depends on where that cost actually is.There are things that you can save money on that are variable (like food) vs. things that are fixed or not as liquid (like housing).So simply looking at a number or an index doesn’t drill down enough for any individual to make a decision but provides a rough guide.Also whether you have kids or are planning to have kids will mean you have to consider neighborhoods with good schools. Or whether you need a car.

          3. pointsnfigures

            Meh, I don’t think that you can compare. That’s apples and oranges. In the US, NYC is expensive.But, there is a reason for that. You can also make a lot of money there and the demand is there. NYC is different than 99.9% of the places in the US.I am not anti-NY, it’s just different. I like Chicago, but grew up here and talk like the people here. Plus, I hate the Mets.

          4. Cam MacRae

            Hang on, by your own admission comparing NYC to any other city in the US is also comparing apples and oranges.

        2. LE

          I don’t know why it even matters if other cities have a higher cost of living than NYC. Because those are cities you should avoid as well.

        3. kidmercury

          nyc is still cheap compared to big cities outside of US, that is part why NYC real estate still goes higher — foreign investors parking money in nyc real estate

          1. JLM

            .To say nothing of comparative political stability.JLM.

    6. LE

      i know some of you will say it is no big deal, lol, if you want to be 35 years old and sharing a studio with a non-significant other NYC is your place to beYoung people are particularly good at not worrying about the future. If it were so simple you could just tell them smoking was bad and they wouldn’t do it.The chance of getting a young person to realize the realities of a particular work and housing arrangement long term in the NY Metro area would be similar to trying to tell someone with any far fetched dream to understand that it probably won’t work out for them. (Actors working in restaurants in LA comes to mind.)Your comment is so right that the “lol” doesn’t even bother me which it normally does.

    7. gorbachev

      I’m moving out as soon as my current gig is done unless something changes in this respect.Assuming some well financed entrepreneur in NYC doesn’t hire me for a six figure salary not starting with a 1.

      1. kidmercury

        wise plan!

    8. ShanaC

      my rent is comparable to a similar sized space in chicago #notinbrooklynormanhattan

      1. kidmercury

        where in new york are you comparing and where in chicago?here’s an apples to apples comparison: i pay $1450 to live in a prime part of chicago. a friend of mine who lives in chelsea, a prime part of manhattan, pays $4200. we have same size apt, approx 770 square feet. admittedly his building is slightly more luxurious than mine, but not 3X the luxury.

        1. ShanaC

          Astoria to say Hyde Park (chicago)

    9. fredwilson

      no better place in the world than NYC. i’ve been to all of the places you recommend. they suck compared to NYC.

      1. kidmercury

        hahahahaha! if i had your bank account i might agree! (not really, as NYC is still too crowded and uncharismatic, but i’m more sympathetic to why the wealthy like NYC)

        1. fredwilson

          i liked it just as much when i was broke, maybe more

          1. kidmercury

            this is what makes this thread so ridiculous. you are acting like cost doesn’t matter. this ludicrous and practically false in a quantifiable, mathematical sort of way.the rise in the cost of living in new york has FAR outsurpassed the rise in inflation. meaning the broke that you had was much wealthier than the broke you’d be now, if we try to extrapolate the situation.i was near broke in brooklyn and manhattan 8-12 years ago. the rent on those same places is at least 50% higher.

          2. fredwilson

            yeah but crown heights and bed stuy are great options now. so is astoria. NYC has an amazing number of neighborhoods you can live in reasonably today

          3. kidmercury

            queens is the last vestige of a deal. oh, and i suppose the bronx, if that counts.…new york, the heart of american finance and wall street, is a clear example of the wealth-concentrating effects of inflation.

          4. KG18

            what is wrong with the Bronx? it is a borough of NYC and holds almost 20% of the population of the city… so what do you mean “if that counts”? That sounds pretty condescending – especially for someone who bemoans “wealth-concentrating effects of inflation”.

          5. kidmercury

            in my opinion, and i’m sure others will disagree, manhattan is the only borough that lives up to the nyc hype. but it’s too expensive for most people. that the manhattan opportunity has been priced out to such an extent illustrates the wealth-concentrating effects of inflation.

          6. KG18

            “in my opinion, and i’m sure others will disagree, manhattan is the only borough that lives up to the nyc hype.”yes – because there are and have been millions of New Yorkers who loved there borough and never wanted to live in Manhattan.”that the manhattan opportunity has been priced out to such an extent illustrates the wealth-concentrating effects of inflation”There are commuter rails that take you in every single direction outside of Manhattan and the rest of the city….

          7. kidmercury

            hey why not live in argentina? i mean only a short boat ride away from manhattan, right? same thing!commutes matter. as do local neighborhoods. location, location, location.

          8. KG18

            ok – now I see you’re not serious.

          9. kidmercury

            price would suggest you are not serious. there is a reason why manhattan is so much more expensive than the wastelands a few miles away from it.

          10. KG18

            “wastelands”?? again – either you are not serious or just highly ignorant. where exactly are these wastelands?

          11. Farhan Abbasi

            Kid, can’t compare broke. It’s more than the just the numbers. When you’re broke, the *feeling* more than surpasses any numerical analysis.

          12. kidmercury

            and i assure you, the feeling of having $10 in your pocket today in new york is more depressing than the feeling of having $10 in your pocket 10 years ago. even the falafels cost more.

        2. KG18

          nyc is “uncharismatic”???? LOL – I guess that’s why it’s the arts and culture capital of the country and along with London and Paris – for the world. I guess all the ppl from all over the U.S. who want to act on Broadway have no charisma either huh? I guess more movies are made about life in NYC than anywhere else in the U.S. because there is no charisma either??? It’s ok to love where you live… but let’s be reasonable.Being crowded is part of what gives it it’s charisma.

          1. kidmercury

            sure, charisma is subjective. i find nyc to be dirty.

          2. fredwilson

            filthy in many ways

          3. kidmercury

            Lol well I used the word dirty, because while nyc may be filthy rich, wall st is some if the dirtiest money

          4. KG18

            so wait – you mean the financial markets in your seemingly beloved Chicago are somehow cleaner than Wall St.??? they are a part of the same syndicate.. CME bout out a “Wall St.” exchange some years ago.

          5. kidmercury

            i never said chicago was cleaner than wall street, though given that wall street deals with more capital, i would assume it has more dirt (though perhaps not more dirt on a per capita basis).

          6. KG18

            oh yes – it is actually dirty (that’s actually one thing I do dislike about it)… but that doesn’t stop it’s energy and charisma. judging by it’s ever increasing population and number of tourists… that pans out.

  8. Alex Murphy

    There is a difference between tech the function and tech the product. Just like there is a difference between accounting the function and accounting the industry.Regardless of the differences, I agree with you that in the end it doesn’t really matter.Tech is a growing part of every organization, from the Tech product companies to the Healthcare companies to Finance. Tech is a major driver of productivity and every company strives to improve their productivity.I think the companies you mention are in the sectors they serve. Gilt in Retail, ZocDoc in healthcare etc. Their approach is fundamentally different being tech delivery vs a sales organization. Web based vs brick and mortar. But the function of what they do and who they serve, and the problems they solve are the elements that define what they are, not how they do it.

  9. Jorge M. Torres

    The dining options around here aren’t that shabby either, especially in Queens.

    1. Richard

      400k fast food workers in NY.

      1. Jorge M. Torres

        Not quite what I had in mind, buy way more relevant to the post than my original comment!

    2. ShanaC

      go queens!

  10. Cam MacRae

    Interesting, although tech/information is a fairly nebulous category, and the report seems to be seeking justification for a set of politically convenient conclusions.

    1. Richard

      Looks like the report is using BLS data

      1. Cam MacRae

        It is for the most part. Is that good or bad? (I don’t know enough about them to say).Figure 6. is a classic piece of misdirection, accidental or otherwise.

        1. kidmercury

          bad. BLS = bureau of lies and scams

  11. JimHirshfield

    I’m more interested in what the metrics are on startups in NYC versus these other sectors. IOW, not “tech” as a sector, but startups. If we suffered another “dot bomb”, I think Gilt, Tumblr, and Business Insider would all survive. But the younger companies could feel the pain. So, in terms of economic growth and resilience, I think “startup” as a sector is more enlightening.

    1. Kirsten Lambertsen


    2. ShanaC

      Why are “startups” a sector in the first place.

      1. JimHirshfield

        What do you mean? If you’re implying that startups aren’t a sector like finance or retail, then yeah….feel free to substitute “cohort” for the word “sector”.

        1. ShanaC

          i am. they shouldn’t be treated as a sector, but as part of the industries they are disrupting

          1. Richard

            it’s not always about “disruption”. The great startups create more than they displace (Intel, Google, Apple).

        2. Kevin Yien

          I would have to agree with @ShanaC:disqus here. Per the definition of a startup (by some), they are temporary organizations searching for business models. They can, and do, exist in all industries.Technology seems more like a foundational component to leverage within any given industry. While it may have been an industry of its own in the past, the lines seem to have blurred now.

          1. JimHirshfield

            Thanks for the comment.I wasn’t advocating that startups (however they’re defined) are an industry sector. I was making the point that I’m more interested in metrics on startups than I am on what someone has defined as “tech sector” because of exactly the point you make: tech goes across many industries.See my reply to @ShanaC:disqus where I point out that “cohort” would have been a better choice of words.

          2. Kevin Yien

            Agreed. Now if only could all agree on what a ‘startup’ means…

  12. Kirsten Lambertsen

    Amen. The tech/startup surge in NYC has made it an even more wonderful place. For me, NYC is a love affair that just keeps getting better.

    1. Richard

      Party scene is pretty good as well 🙂

  13. William Mougayar

    And New York is only second to the Bay Area in terms of Venture Capital in Tech.It was the perfect storm:- Bloomberg as a tech savvy mayor- a desire to beat SF and the Bay Area- legacy of tech in finance- new breed of aggressive tech venture capital financiers (like USV, etc.)- sucking Boston graduates (NY is the #1 destination of Boston college graduates)- it’s a good city to live in!

    1. awaldstein

      And it is one of the world’s largest living brands. When you win here you win big as this is w/o a doubt the world’s stage.That is #1 to me.

      1. Richard

        I’m living (just recently changes coasts) Downtown without a car. The city itself can be walked in 20 minutes. Comforted by the greatest weather in the US, I walk everywhere.

        1. awaldstein

          If you can live where you work, LA does rock.Lived in West Hollywood, company in BH and it was a snap.But–LA w/o a car, I don’t know. Beaches north of Malibu and the canyons are a real pleasure.Enjoy it. I miss it a bit and considering a new client there just to get to visit.(And of course they really understand salads there and have farmer’s markets all year round!)

          1. Richard

            Btw, 4 organic juice bars just in Downtown!

          2. awaldstein

            Yup…everywhere there.

          3. Cam MacRae

            A friend of mine is living in West Hollywood without a car. She’s pretty happy getting around on Metro.

          4. awaldstein

            Huge fan of this town.Still tough carless as at least when I lived there, there was no bike lane from there to Santa Monica.For a city with such amazing weather, there is a shortage of parks and bike lanes are (or at least were) sadly not where they needed to be.

          5. LE

            West Hollywood, companyNever forget the time I was in West Hollywood and stopped the car to dash into a Starbucks. I noticed a bunch of guys staring at me. Then I looked around and it was all guys with other guys. All fit. All trim. All well groomed. All dressed well. It was like one of those scenes in a movie where a bunch of guys walk into a bar and it’s all lesbians (I’m thinking of the camera blocking and angles as I’m saying this).

        2. kidmercury

          miami weather > LA weather

          1. Richard

            Only true subtropic region in the US! I’ve spent most of my life coming and going to Miami, including a few years of college.

      2. William Mougayar

        Yup, it’s so easy to fall in love with NY.

      3. LE

        When you win here you win big100% true. Go to the target rich environment.Anyway it’s pretty funny.There are some local guys that I know that are good at hustling in real estate.Really aggressive immigrant types.They are all over the place. But the deals are only so large in the suburbs.They could be doing the same thing, hustling that is, where the deals are bigger. (Shit even in center city Philly the deals are bigger.)More competition you say? (Not you I mean “you”).So big deal. Many of the people that are selling in NY are there because that’s where they grew up. [1] They aren’t any smarter or more motivated that the average guy in Idaho or in Philly.[1] How does that saying go? I don’t have to outrun the bear I only have to outrun you.

    2. kidmercury

      the real story is far less glamourous a bit more is where wall street is. wall street stole a lot of money and then blew bubble 2.0.

      1. William Mougayar

        Kid…be positive….focus on the positive 🙂 repeat and repeat.

        1. kidmercury

          i’m the most positive person i know. kooks always are. the real reason people aren’t kooks is because they’re not positive enough; they don’t think they can solve the problem, so they ignore it. kooks relish in focusing on the problem because they know problems are just opportunities in disguise. but if you don’t look at the problem you’ll be blind to the opportunity.

          1. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

            That definitely needs a LOL

          2. kidmercury

            just like the old saying…..where there’s humor, there’s truth……

          3. William Mougayar

            You’re a good kook 🙂

    3. ShanaC

      bloomberg is outgoing.

      1. William Mougayar

        but he has been working on this for the past few years. that’s what i meant.

  14. Guest

    The great advantage of US startups is that they’re so vertically and horizontally integrate-able into the overall business ecosystem that definitions of whether they’re tech or fashion or whatever become blurred (and unnecessary?).They’re simply solution companies.

  15. Joe Marchese

    Every company needs tech, but there are distinctions. If you take the tech out of a restaurant, it’s still a restaurant… maybe serving fewer diners more slowly, but still essentially a restaurant. Take the tech out of Gilt or ZocDoc and there is no company. That makes them tech companies.

    1. awaldstein

      Really ;)Your distinction holds of course but Gilt customers think of them as what? That’s what they are and that’s how the P & L looks as well. And they compete with both online and terrestrial based businesses that sell similar goods to the same audience.The problem with tech is that it sees itself as both the solution and the market. Of course it isn’t.

      1. Laura Yecies

        Finance is really tech the last 20 years or so

        1. awaldstein

          Lots of tech in finance no doubt and as a business, yes, I agree as they don’t really touch their customers—although they do touch their money.

        2. Richard

          This is true in the truest sense. Think about the how often we touch money vs 20 years ago.

  16. Farhan Abbasi

    I would like to hear from AVC folks their thoughts on Boston. I’m setting up a co-working space (working with an existing NY-based company to help them expand into Boston).Boston is seen as more “liveable” from folks who move here from NYC (cheaper, more walkable, more family friendly, etc).VC/tech perspective it’s been known as the 2nd VC hub after SF. I follow this blog and believe NYC has or will trump Boston.But in the end I just want to know whether entrepreneurs are still viewing Boston as a place to set up shop vs other cities.My location would be close to the AMTRAK line for easy connection to NY – would that help?Has someone decided ON Boston (or NOT on Boston), and why?

    1. William Mougayar

      The challenge that Boston has today, is that it’s close to NY, and according to this data, NYC is the #1 destination of Boston graduates. http://bostinno.streetwise….Also, look at the comparison of the 2 ecosystems I did recently:http://startupmanagement.or

      1. Farhan Abbasi

        Fantastic info in that article William, thank you!!I do think backing out bio-tech / pharma-tech is unfair in determining VC tech activity — Bio-tech / pharma has clearly been the fast growing sector in Boston so any analysis backing that sector out is not looking at the real-deal Boston. Though I did notice you narrowed it to “info-tech”.The ranking of Boston being #8 destination troubles me – perhaps I’ll speak with the upcoming Boston mayor to understand what initiatives / efforts can be made to improve that. It’s ridiculous.

        1. William Mougayar

          Fred is also an example. After he graduated from Boston, he headed to NYC. That was the case 25 years ago, and still is the case today. If Boston can fix that….

    2. feargallkenny

      For most of the firms we work with on the recruiting side (b2b web technology firms that target ecommerce, brands, agencies and publishers) they see Boston as about the 6th or 7th most desirable market they want to sell into (behind NY, SF, Chicago, LA and Dallas / Atlanta) so it has the disadvantage of not also being considered a major hub of diverse or vertical-specific customers where you can kill two birds with one stone by having your HQ where a critical mass of your target customers are.

      1. Farhan Abbasi

        Very troubling. Boston does from time to time get companies piloting their services here as a first-city market test. I believe Zipcar and RelayRides did so here successfully.Tks for your thoughts.

    3. fredwilson

      i lived in Boston. it’s cold. cold weather wise. and cold people wise. no edge. i wouldn’t live there.

      1. Farhan Abbasi

        Would a more attractive Boston benefit NY or compete against NY? I wonder if a stronger Boston could help strengthen an east-coast or north-east hub brand when competing against the west coast and other US regions.Given the two cities’ proximity and complementary industries — is there little room for regional collabo?

        1. fredwilson

          i think they do benefit from the proximity to each other

    4. KG18

      Boston is certainly walkable… but “more walkable”? How so?…more family friendly? again – according to what measure? ppl say things but the questions is by what metric? crime? no… access to free activities… not really.When it comes to bio tech and medical devices though – Boston has NYC beat for sure.

      1. Farhan Abbasi

        Liveability is a subjective feeling – can’t determine it solely on objective metrics.Boston as a more walkable and liveable city than NYC is based on overwhelming feedback from guests who stay at my downtown studios (, and feedback from co-workers who’ve lived in both cities.And I’m sure many rankings support both sides. Anytime a ranking list is used, it should be taken holistically (i.e. nyc and boston are in the same tier) as opposed to a hard ranking — note how MBA schools can create weird lists.But just to add, Boston’s most popular neighborhoods are all within 15-25 mins walking distance of each other: Back Bay, Beacon Hill, North End, etc. Boston being more “liveable” and family oriented is probably drive by metrics behind lower cost of living, less crime (though NYC has sharply declined there), less of a “24/7 culture” ie bars close at 2 — the residential/neighborhood feel to it dominates the Boston landscape more so than NYC. Less towers, less street carts, less touristic outlets, etc.But it’s all subjective – can’t determine it solely on objective metrics.

        1. KG18

          well we can certainly agree that it is subjective…. even what constitutes “most popular neighborhoods”. for instance – in any city – a residential neighborhood is a residential neighborhood… mixed use is mixed use… etc. etc. In general in the NYC area – ppl who don’t like density or “action” for their children move to the thing that is certainly measurable though is crime… that one you got incorrect. well if you mean violent crime – as a whole Boston is not safer. The Bronx has the highest violent crime rate of any borough – and by itself it now has a lower homicide rate than Boston. If you ask anyone their perspective they’d tell you that’s not true – but the numbers say it is.

          1. Farhan Abbasi

            Even on crime, the interpretation on stats can be subjective. Check this cool website that compares crime: http://city-crime-statistic…Crime incidents: Boston: 27K (4.32%)NYC: 188K (2.24%)Violent Crime:Boston: 6K (.99%)NYC: 46K (.55%)Why is it subjective? Population difference is so vast (600K vs 8.4M) that it’s hard to compare — even the percentage comparison is not great because a densely populated area is BOUND to have lower crime per resident. Ten crimes in a more densely populated neighborhood is just as dangerous as 10 crimes in a slightly less dense neighborhood.I’m happy to concede that crime is so low for each that they are in the same tier. The percentage differences aren’t so different — they are both very safe cities and arguing over crime rate I think is pointless unless a significant difference happens: Zombie Apocalypse.

          2. KG18

            “Why is it subjective? Population difference is so vast (600K vs 8.4M) that it’s hard to compare “that is my original point… including what is “family friendly”

  17. Dan Ramsden

    The most interesting part of this post is not so much about jobs and NYC, other than incidentally, but that all the traditional industries are becoming technology industries and, ultimately, maybe even the same sector. With advancements in information processing and distribution, this is the inevitable path. This is a fascinating subject that has been at the top of mind for me. (Promotion alert, apologies): My book, just off the press, is called The Age of Convergence.

    1. LE

      all the traditional industries are becoming technology industriesTechnology industry is to those other places (example in the report was New York Times) like transportation industry is to other industries.You wouldn’t say that because a local plumbing supply house uses trucks to deliver it’s goods instead of by bicycle it’s in the transportation business. So I’m not sure the NYT example shows that they are “technology” but rather “using technology”. After all they weren’t considered “printers” when they used printing presses they were considered “publishers” (and that’s a different thing than “printing”).For another example using printing and publishing they use technology (and have done so since the 70’s) but nobody would ever consider them a part of tech just that they use tech. But then again everyone uses tech. Tech to me would be more the suppliers of things that the others use.

      1. Dan Ramsden

        I know your point, but I think these days information technology is not just a tool but more and more the core business itself.

  18. LE

    Puff piece.A quick scan at the, umm, 28 pages in the pdf which was “Prepared for the Bloomberg Technology Summit” and it’s essentially a good example of being able to make numbers say anything you want. [1]I mean who has the time to vet this document? And even if they vetted it who has the time to read and decide if the critique and counterpoints are valid?The bottom line is Bloomberg administration gets a thick report to back up press releases which further a goal of making NYC look good. [2] [3][1] On the other hand where there is smoke there is fire so there is for sure something going on in NY regarding tech but this reports goal is simply to amplify that.[2] Great idea – this is totally the way to achieve a particular agenda. Others should take note and do similar things when they want to influence the press and decision makers.[3] And Brooklyn (mentioned to many times to count ) which is where the author grew up and his parents still live. (pg. 26)

    1. Dave Pinsen

      Does the doc count financial IT workers as part of the tech sector?

    2. KG18

      so do a counter-study to refute. if you can’t – then don’t complain. in any event there are quite a few publications that come to the same conclusion… just doing a simple internet search will bring a few of them up.

  19. Tracey Jackson

    NYC is one of the best places in the world to do all of those things, and a lot more.”If I can make it here, I can make it anywhere”

  20. vruz

    Jeff Bezos’ words come to mind, I don’t remember the exact terms, but he said something like this:How do I know that it’s still early days in our industry? When these companies become mature enough, they won’t be called Internet companies anymore, they will be just companies.So I take your appreciation as a sign that we’re probably leaving the golden age of the web behind and approaching maturity as an industry.

    1. LE

      That’s a takeoff of something that iirc either Andreessen or McNeely (Sun) said which was something like “in the future you won’t say you are going online anymore than you now say I’m taking the automobile to go to the store”. The ubiquitous method is just assumed. Or something like that I don’t remember the exact wording.

      1. vruz

        It’s probably been applied to every industry since Gutenberg.He could have said, when everybody reads the events of the day on a folded printed paper they won’t be called books anymore.

  21. LE

    I would have thought the real estate sector was larger (it may be) and it is also a bit surprising to me that tech is bigger than media & entertainment.Real estate would be a bit easier to figure out than other things. Because at the very least you could take the aggregate of all the real estate transfers (public info) in a given year and make a good estimate on broker commissions which essentially fund all the offices, admin and sales people.You’d then have to decide whether or not you would include building management fees and all the others who keep things operating. And what about the people who do appraisals?But why would you?And where do you stop? [1]The question to be answered with anything like this is what do you include?Napkin: My guess though is if you only included broker commissions it wouldn’t come close to 30 billion obv. because that would assume, say between 400 and 600 billion of real estate is transferred in NY Metro annually. [1] Where? You stop when you have enough info to prove your theory which was more or less my point with the purpose of this report.

  22. gorbachev

    From what I can figure, the study classifies tech jobs in media/entertainment and finance as tech jobs, as it should.It doesn’t surprise me at all. The big banks and media companies have armies of technology professionals working for them.

    1. ShanaC

      what if those industries moved though?

      1. KG18

        well if de Blasio gets elected – there is a possibility that can happen!!

  23. jason wright


    1. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

      +1 … remembered George saying ‘o2’ in Seinfeld….don’t recollect exact episode.

  24. JLM

    .There is only one NYC and it is awesome. It is so awesome that folks in Texas have offered to annex it and make it part of Texas. THAT is really awesome.Cost of living is the only real knock on NYC and maybe one just has to suck it up and pay the man.Pay the man.On a serious note, we will evolve until the inclusion of technology in a business enterprise will be no more noteworthy than noting that a company has indoor plumbing and running water.JLM.

    1. fredwilson

      you crack me up JLM. you love Texas as much as I love NYC. and i respect that.

      1. JLM

        .I love Texas — Austin, in particular — and am married to her but I also love NYC and it is my mistress.Every time I come to NYC I feel like Columbus must have felt when he discovered America. Total absolute wonderment as to, well, everything. It is that damn good.I do not get that feeling in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio (part of Mexico, really), El Paso, Corpus Christi, Fort Worth.Stay well, my friend.JLM.

        1. fredwilson

          i really enjoy coming to Austinmaybe we should swap homes once a year 🙂

          1. JLM

            .I have 3 spare bedrooms right now. Come on down.I am headed to Colorado for at least 6 weeks of skiing this year, so you are truly welcome.I will even let you drive the Big Red Car.JLM.

  25. Kasi Viswanathan Agilandam

    There is nothing wrong in saying “This is the best place on this third-rock” …if you you love where you live …I would say … Palayamkottai is the best place to have Tech life … even if i had a skewed document which says “Palayamkottai is best for tech” …Love is blind.P.S. that kottai is this …

  26. jason wright

    web tech is an extension of the spoken and written word. L3 if you like.

  27. Anne Libby

    I love NYC — and, I am also with David Byrne… yes, what happens in the arts affects “tech,” too.The first web event I went to (1995? 1996?) was at Cooper Union, with speakers were artists like Laurie Anderson.

    1. fredwilson

      i wonder if he’s just not hip to where and how the new art is being made

      1. Anne Libby

        Maybe he should move to Brooklyn! More seriously, I definitely know people — artists and others — who have decamped to the Hudson Valley…

      2. Anne Libby

        I’ve been thinking about this, and I also think it’s about proximity and serendipity in access to one’s tribe.One day last year, I had an early coffee with @JimHirshfield:disqus. We saw a large group of people from GA meeting at a table in the back. Then, we ran into your partner Andy. I think we were both surprised; the place didn’t scream “tech hangout.”When I first moved downtown, I’d learn that people next to me — in yoga class, on line at the market, at the next table at a neighborhood restaurant — were artists, actors, writers. Most weren’t people I recognized or knew of. Regular people you could bump into in the street.I wonder about the neighborhood places. If you’re David Byrne, where does your tribe get coffee?Don’t get me wrong. When I moved to NYC, Union Square was walled off.* The subway at night was a crapshoot. Good riddance to the bad old days. And yet…have we thrown the baby out with the bathwater?*I couldn’t find a photo of Union Square in this era to post here…

  28. Siminoff

    This is very similar to what is happening in LA. Is a full automated office chair manufacturer a furniture company or a tech company? I just visited one in LA and I would say it is a tech company.Silicon valley is such pure tech that it is easy to see and understand. But place like NYC, LA, etc. have a lot of crazy tech going but it can be covered up in businesses that are not necessarily so clear to see.

    1. fredwilson

      i am very bullish on LA. but you knew that Jamie 🙂

  29. CJWesterberg

    What I would like to know as someone who researches and writes about education, what knowledge and skills are needed to thrive in this “new” tech environment?When I learn that 60% of top execs in Silicon Valley were liberal arts majors and how coding may be essential as the real “universal language” rather than Mandarin and Spanish – would love to hear comments. Two outliers, Mr. STEM, Bill Gates vs. Mr. Humanities, Steve Jobs, seem to be the go-to representations of each extreme but maybe we can get better than a huge laundry list of requirements from both camps which serves no student well.The question is: what do we ADD and what do we ELIMINATE from K-12 education (higher ed being another animal)? What should everyone learn and what should be delegated as electives?

  30. baba12

    if you know the difference between RJ11 and RJ 45 and you work at a Cafe, you are included as being a tech worker.Every business has either in-house or part time tech support staff. Wonder how many delivery persons are there that work in NYC. I just don’t buy the numbers but it does not matter to me nor to most folks.

  31. Brandon G. Donnelly

    The report rolls up real estate into the financial sector:”While the financial sector, including real estate, is the single most important engine of the New York economy…”

  32. John Revay

    Saw a tweet over the weekend by @bussgang w/link to pandodaily piece – “What Happened to Boston…Recall back in the 1980’s that Boston was one of the hot beds for tech companies and jobs….

    1. fredwilson

      edge matters. boston has no edge.

  33. Abdallah Al-Hakim

    “One of NYC’s great strengths is the diversity of its economy – finance, real estate, media & entertainment, retail, fashion, health care, education, and now tech. And the reason tech is growing so fast in NYC is that it is embedding itself in all of these other industries” this is the money paragraph for me. It seems obvious but not all cities realize this fact!

    1. KG18

      right – which is why it CAN’T just be replicated everywhere… in the same way that San Fran being the gateway to the Bay Area and Silicon Valley can’t be replicated just in “Anytown USA”

  34. Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg

    I’m sorry, but this “study” is nothing more than a PR stunt, senseless city cheerleading at its most silly. A quick look at Figure 3 shows that they have included the following in their definition of the “tech sector”* news organizations (wtf?)* Video, music, radio, television and cable (they say production, I’m going to assume they aren’t actually referring to all of the activities in those industries)* telecom providers (did you know that AT&T and Verizon are now part of the “tech sector”?)* anything related to science, engineering, or industrial design (everyone is in tech now!)”Rah rah rah, NYC Tech is teh BIGGEST EVAH!”—With that said, NYC’s tech job scene is obviously growing and getting stronger, which is why this sort of pointless pr seems so… pointless…

    1. fredwilson

      i can’t argue with that

  35. Jeremy Gottlieb

    Does anyone know of any clean energy tech companies in NYC? One would think that with all of the growth in renewable energy that someone would be trying to cash in. I know Mosaic ( does solar energy investment, but they’re based in the Bay Area.

  36. Sean Hull

    Exciting times in Gotham to work in the tech sector.When I meet friends & colleagues who are struggling in their job search, I always encourage them to look at tech. From analytics to SEO, writing, editing, programming, servers & infrastructure, project management, design, illustration, product, branding. There are so many sides, there’s something for everyone!

  37. KG18

    well I think those “tech” jobs counted – go across various sectors…. not that there is anything wrong with that.