The Eater 38

My wife and I were investors in the blog network Curbed until it was sold last last year to Vox. Curbed has three primary brands, Curbed (local real estate), Eater (local food & restaurants), and Racked (local shopping). The network operates across something like 25 cities in the US. Curbed is a classic example of a blog network, with a unique voice, attitude, and angle. They built a very nice and highly profitable business over six years and sold to a larger blog network Vox. Most of the team has stayed at Vox and are in key management roles there. Vox is a pretty interesting business too and the Gotham Gal and I are small investors in that company by virtue of our Curbed investment. This is all a bit of backdrop and disclosure for the thing I want to talk about which is the Eater 38.

The Eater 38 is one of my favorite things on the Internet. It is a map/list of the 38 “essential” restaurants right now in about 27 cities in North America. The fact that there are 38 restaurants on the list, not 10, not 25, not 50, but 38 is classic Curbed. They do things their own way and they do it right and they do it well.

But the thing about the 38 that I like most is the concept of “essential.” These are not the finest restaurants. This is not where you will find the very best food right now. These are not the trendiest restaurants right now either. These are the places that you should go to tonight, tomorrow, and again and again, right now. The 38 is updated twice a year (I think) so its always up to date and it changes a fair bit. The 38 recognizes that restaurants ebb and flow. Today’s essential restaurant is not always tomorrow’s.

When I go to a new city and am looking for a place to eat, I will always check the 38 in that city (if there is one). Earlier this week a good friend emailed the Gotham Gal looking for a large table or private room to take a bunch of people to dinner this weekend. I pulled up the NYC 38Β on my phone and we went down the list and we found exactly the right place for them.

In the wake of the sale to Vox, Eater has been moved over to Vox’s modern CMS and the Eater 38 has been jazzed up with a nice map/list interface on the web and mobile web. Here are a few of them for all of you to check out (somewhat based on the AVC readership):

New York City 38

San Francisco 38

Los Angeles 38

Philadelphia 38 (for Kirk and LE)

Austin 38 (for JLM)

Toronto 38 (for William)

San Diego 38 (for Howard)

#Food and Drink

Comments (Archived):

  1. jason wright

    in the absence of an explanation i’ll start the ball rolling with “Strontium”.

    1. JimHirshfield


      1. jason wright

        everyone likes an authentic back story, and i dislike contrived and contorted brand names. what’s the ’38’ story?’Strontium’ sounds like it would have a bit of ‘attitude’ as a restaurant reviewer.n.b. Strontium is number 38 on the periodic table.

  2. kirklove

    Eater 38 is great. Really distills down a city and doesn’t just focus on the high-priced, super in demand stuff.Always suprised they can find 38 places in Philly! ha #PhillyFoodSceneSlamThough Johns = legit!!!

    1. fredwilson

      there are a few where they “cheat” and only pick 18

  3. Ghorwood

    I too love Eater 38 but the new UX detracts from its usefulness.

    1. Lock

      I think we haven’t nailed it yet. Stick around: we’re rolling out a bunch of UI tweaks to the Eater Maps interface next week.

  4. TradeIdeas

    Couldn’t agree more. It’s my reference in Atlanta and with me frequently in NYC. Here’s the Atlanta 38:…. Let’s pick a date when you can return, visit GT’s ATDC, the local EO Chapter, TAG, and more.

  5. Tom Labus

    Great list for NYC. And a Jersey City place, wow. Going to Peasant next week

  6. JLM

    .Ouch, bad news — the Austin list is exactly the list that a clueless, foreigner would make about Austin. Having lived here since 1979 and eaten in every restaurant in town except for that Argentine sushi joint I can say with authority — weak shit. Very weak shit.When you tell someone that Green Mesquite BBQ and Matt’s El Rancho are not on the list they’re asking is this Austin, Minnesota?Tell those rubes to call me and I’ll get them on the right path because right now that warm feeling they’re experiencing is them pissing on their own leg.Please accept my apology for being so mean but the election has got me all worked up. The Republicans didn’t really win, Americans sent a message about integrity and being lied to.JLM.

    1. fredwilson

      Ooooh. The throw down comment. I love it!

      1. JLM

        .Don’t get me wrong, there are some good restaurants on that list but the “essential” 38? Nah.Many of those restaurants are “shiny pennies” which have not been in business very long and whose pedigree is completely in their own minds — example LaVie which is all show and no go. Huge wine list and uninspiring food. Some folks from out of town, way out of town.Austin can take itself a little too seriously sometimes but you can’t say “essential” and overlook Matt’s El Rancho, that is insulting.Anybody coming this way, call me and I’ll take you to Matt’s. You judge.JLM.

        1. pointsnfigures

          found the same in Chicago for some of them.

          1. daryn

            I reference the Seattle 38 (and the Eater Heatmap – which is the real list of buzzy new places…) pretty often when making recommendations to visitors. There definitely feels like there’s bias on the list towards places that have opened in the past five years and are “hot” over some true classics, but If you use the lens of where to recommend out-of-towners, that’s probably what they’re looking for.

          2. Salt Shaker

            Pump me w/ some Seattle “classics”…fairly new to the city. Have found the food scene to be quite good, though.

          3. Drew Meyers

            We spent some time working on this in 2013. Here is my list for Seattle:…Consumers want personalized advice from people they trust. Super hard to scale and deliver that for every traveler/mover.

          4. Salt Shaker

            Thx Drew, much appreciated. Live in Belltown half the year, NYC the other half.

          5. Drew Meyers

            O’Hana happy hours are awesome

          6. Salt Shaker

            Ha, I literally live 1/2 a block away from O’Hana on 1st. Haven’t tried yet, but will. Was disappointed in Shiro. My experience was mixed and thought the place was over priced.

          7. saraeaterseattle

            In addition to the above picks I also like Matt’s in the Market, Tamarind Tree, Paseo–and Dick’s!

          8. Salt Shaker

            Been to Matt’s, Campagne, Le Pichet. Look forward to trying other suggestions. Tom Douglas just bought in our Belltown apt building, but I’ve yet to see him. He’s got quite an operation going.

          9. daryn

            Some personal favorites, a few of which are on the Eater 38:ZoeQuinn’sVia TribunaliLarkAnchovies and Olives (where I once dined with Mister AVC himself)Cafe PresseSpinasseCanonSitka & SprucePoppyI’m a capitol hill dweller, so my opinions are biased to the best neighborhood in the city πŸ™‚

          10. saraeaterseattle

            Thanks for the feedback Daryn–glad the list has been helpful. We try to have a mix of classics like Maneki, Canlis, Campagne, and Green Leaf with newer spots, but a good reminder to add in another older pick in the next round.

          11. daryn

            I can see how it’d be tough – people visiting or brand new to Seattle would probably get a happy taste of the city by hitting up any of Tom Douglas or Ethan Stowell’s places for example, but including them all on the list would remove a lot of the character and be a big chunk of the 38! I guess it all depends on how you define essential.As far as old stalwarts, I’ve really enjoyed the “second helpings” series the Seattle Times has been running where they revisit some of the been-around-so-long-we-take-them-for-granted places around town.

          12. saraeaterseattle

            Yes–good series, although Salish Lodge would probably disagree…The review of Il Terrazzo Carmine was great.

          13. Salt Shaker

            My girlfriend took me to Il Terrazzo Carmine for my b-day. Best Osso Buco I ever had.

        2. Amanda Kludt

          Hey JLM. I love hearing what readers would put on the 38 (even when they call our editors rubes). You should start a forum post to list which restaurants would be on your personal list:…I did that in the NYC forums and it was really interesting to see what fellow editors and readers included on their personal lists

          1. megmccarron

            Hey JLM. Sounds like we have very different takes on Austin restaurants — all the more reason to chime in on the forums. We always want to hear from readers about the 38.FWIW, Matt’s was on the Austin list at one point, but the last few meals there I had were disappointing. Clearly, you’ve had better recent experiences.

          2. JLM

            .I knew Matt. I used to eat there when they were located where the Four Seasons is now located. I was eating at Matt’s when you were slurping formula or being breast fed by your Momma.Just screwing with ya, Meggie.If you get a bad meal at Matt’s you tell them and they make it good. I have never had a bad meal at Matt’s from before Bob Armstrong was THE Bob Armstrong, cher.JLM.

          3. LE

            I love hearing what readers would put on the 38Once again, not a foodie. But one thing I do know is the key to making any good list (for PR purposes and viral impact) is putting the usual suspects someone in key positions on the list so it gives the list legitimacy. Then what you do is seed your personal favorites on the same list and they win by halo effect!Here’s an example.Let’s say you want to make a list of the “best business schools” in the country.On that list, Harvard, Wharton and Stanford almost certainly need to be in the top ten. Harvard doesn’t have to be number one but it can’t be number 15 and it can’t be not on the list at all. Otherwise nobody will take the list seriously. Make sense?For example in this list of the top UG Business Schools, Wharton is #1, Cornell and Notre Dame #2, UVA #4 and so on. (This is a UG list so Harvard which doesn’t have an UG program does not appear..)…

          4. Jeffrey Woo

            This is great. I will add my 38 as well. To help us digest all the inputs, will you be able to put together a new ranked 38 list based on # of people who listed a place? That will be gold.

      2. LE

        Let me jump in about Philly.First I’m not a foodie and don’t claim to have a clue about the best places to eat in Philly. [1]One thing I did notice (and therefore I’m glad JLM made his comment) is that the Philly list is heavily biased in South Philadelphia.The first 13 choices are in South Philly. There is clearly a bias. Not to mention nothing that I see in Mannyunk and only 1 restaurant in NJ. Also no “gems” in NE Philly.All is not lost though I will make another comment about the brilliance of lists as a PR and marketing angle something I first picked up on as a kid.[1] What’s great about me, and what I love about my self, is that I can divine bullshit by triangulating things that follow certain patterns. In this case the writer “Carly Szkaradnik” clearly set off all the alarms.

        1. carlyszkaradnik

          Hey LE. One thing to note is that the list is ordered geographically, not as a ranking, which is why the beginning of the list is all South Philly spots. I chose to begin the list on East Passyunk because of the widely held opinion that it’s currently the strongest and fastest-growing restaurant row in the city, but the restaurants on the list are not ranked – they just have to start somewhere. (This also changes. Up until a couple of updates ago, the list began in Old City.)The scope of the map is an interesting point, though. Once you get outside of Center City, South Philly, and a certain distance north and west, the really special spots are too scattered and far-flung to hope to include the entire region. The inclusion of one NJ spot is a testament to how good the place is and the Philly ties it has, and a reminder that Collingswood is only a few minutes away. Honestly? Chestnut Hill and Manayunk don’t have as many contenders, though there are a few places I’ve considered and will consider again the next time around. What may be essential to you if you live in Manayunk is not necessarily a top-38 essential to a broader swath. I do make an effort to include a variety of areas within the city, though.That said, the list is revised every three months. Northeast Philly has been better-represented at some times than at others, for sure. That there isn’t a Manayunk spot on there right now doesn’t mean there hasn’t ever been or won’t ever be again. Every time we update, I’m informed by reader emails, forum posts, and any other feedback I get.

          1. LE

            Thanks for your reply.A few points.There is nothing (that I can find) that indicates the list is not ordered in some way and not anything that indicates it’s organized geographically.The piece does say this though:This highly elite group covers the entire city, spans myriad cuisines and collectively satisfies all of your restaurant needsSo it doesn’t really cover “the entire city”.I chose to begin the list on East Passyunk because of the widely held opinion that it’s currently the strongest and fastest-growing restaurant row in the cityThings like this are important and the writeup should say that. (I didn’t know that so I’ll take your word for it..)I think anytime you use numbers it is going to appear to be some kind of ranking system. Maybe the idea is to strip way the numbers in some fashion.Fun fact: I helped “Marc V” (you know who that is) with the resume that got him the job that punched his ticket and allowed him to eventually open his empire in Philly (was quite some time ago obviously). I used to go out to dinner with his father on a somewhat regular basis back in the day.

          2. carlyszkaradnik

            Point taken, and actually, the caveat about how the restaurants are ordered used to be in there. Somewhere along the way, perhaps when rebuilding the map for the new site, I must have accidentally edited it out. Will go add it back in right now; thanks for the heads-up.I guess I’d beg to differ on the coverage point, because consideration is given to the entire city. My task is not to make sure every single last neighborhood has a representative, no matter what. All areas are considered, but every entrant still has to perform a certain function on the current list and stack up against everything else.38 is not that many slots, really. In New York (where the task is much tougher), I don’t believe their list features anything north of Harlem at all. Doesn’t mean they didn’t consider everything else, or that there aren’t great places to eat in Washington Heights or the Bronx, or that the restaurants in both places aren’t essential to many, many people.

          3. LE

            You could always sub the list by neighborhood later on.The feature could pay for itself if done right. Award dinner, plaques with “hanging charges” etc. (Nice revenue source profit in every plaque).One other thing is you should get window stickers or some other kind of shwag that screams “Eater 38” (similar to what others do like Zagat as only one example). (If you don’t already that is).Make sure the label has the web address on it which I’m noting Vox owns but the website is dead right now and should point to all the lists. (Actually no DNS so it’s not even pointed..)I owned a coupon book many years ago and we had no problem getting people who paid us for ads to put a window sticker advertising our book in their window!

          4. leapy

            Regarding New York, I was interested to see that lists nothing between 70th and 110th streets. It’s not exactly a food desert there but quite possible that they don’t fulfil ’38 criteria.

        2. Anne Libby

          Earlier in the day, I definitely thought about “beefing” about the (only) restaurant choice for my neighborhood. Definitely a good place, but wouldn’t be my pick.That said, it looks like we’ve got plenty of lively discussion without my beef. (And, their pick wasn’t one of places that lives off of PR hype and celebrity, which is a good thing.)2 of the 38 are places I go to regularly, and they’re routinely very good. And not snooty.

      3. Donna Brewington White

        Even if you didn’t post on the election I knew it would work its way in. Some things you can count on.

      4. LE

        The throw down comment. I love it!In the movie version of your life there is a scene where you are out to dinner and someone wants you to blog about their company or organization.They are being persistent and, well, you really don’t like being asked for that “favor”. You want to write about what you want to write about. What moves you. You are ready to try to tell them no or change the subject “did Joanne tell you about her trip to Cuba?”You pause a second and then you think “hmmm ok let me give them what they want!” and a smile comes over your face.Very subtle in emotion you then say “sure I’d be glad to do that not a problem at all!”[1] The wolves are always waiting for some meat.

      5. Jim Peterson

        Thanks for this Fred. I am minimally interested in how good the restaurants are – but the site functionality (mobile+ lists+ maps) is pretty cool.

    2. jason wright

      exactly the kind of person they want to sign up to 38, and i’m sure they have very good legal cover.mediocrity will not survive this.

    3. William Mougayar

      JLM- I think it’s supposed to be an eclectic list, not a best of the best list.

      1. JimHirshfield

        What’s your take on the Toronto restaurants listed?

        1. leigh

          @wmoug:disqus i’ll get Jordan to evaluate the Toronto list. πŸ™‚ but have to say, Buka is on their list and it’s my go to lunch place with clients near work.

          1. William Mougayar

            see my comments below on it.(side note: Eater is no longer updating for Toronto, so that list is a tad outdated, and keep in mind it’s not the best of the best. it has a good variety. if you want the top 40 restaurants in toronto, check the Tab payment list I referenced below)

        2. sigmaalgebra

          Good news! Now Firefox 27.0.1works with Disqus! So, now I don’t haveto use Google’s Chrome to get to Disqus,Chrome on Disqus — the biggest memoryleak of all time.

      2. JLM


        1. William Mougayar

          essential if you’re eclectic

      3. Pete Griffiths

        The problem I have with that is that ‘eclectic’ = ‘eccentric” = whatever you want it to mean.Surely the purpose of a list that purports to recommend is that it does a decent job by some standard. ‘Eclectic’ doesn’t mean much to me. I’m with JLM on this one.

        1. William Mougayar

          I meant varied. Something for everybody.

          1. Pete Griffiths


    4. LE

      The writer of the Austin list does live in Austin. So she looks like a duck but doesn’t quack like an (Austin) duck:http://www.meghanmccarron.c…It’s obvious the same thing has happened as did in the Philly list.Why don’t you offer to take Meghan (and her girlfriend) to the best Austin place that you know and have them blog about it?

      1. JLM

        .This woman could not have lived long enough in Austin to have even heard of Austin’s best restaurants.JLM.

        1. LE

          It does illustrate my concept well of what I call the “newly hatched.”For example I know nothing about guns. So if I decide to go buy a gun and walk into a gun shop and the clerk shows me a “Pafluger” and says “this is the finest thing out there” or if I open “Guns Magazine” and I see an ad for a “Pafluger” I will think “yeah that’s the ticket I want one”.Meanwhile an old timer will think “what the fuck is that new brand hah I want a –insert some cool gun here I have no clue– that’s the gun I want to clean every night.Point being it’s easily to get established and to gain legitimacy if you cater (eater?) to the newly hatched.I first noticed this when I got into boating and had no clue. And my cousin told me “Donzi that’s a purist boat!”. I never questioned him on that. Or when he told me “Hateras” was a great yacht. I took it as gospel. (Next thing I learned was that Bayliner was shit, and the difference between a fixed and a floating dock.. and that people who don’t take in their bumpers are idiots..)

        2. sigmaalgebra

          Food? You’re concentrating on the food, justthe food!She’s blond, with a nice smile! Cute!Instead, think of a Taylor Swift video: Niceto watch, and much better with thesound off!

    5. sigmaalgebra

      But we know some things about food in Texas:Chili Judging Contest: For those of you who have lived in Texas,you know how true this is. They actuallyhave a Chili Cook-off about the timeHalloween comes around. It takes up amajor portion of the parking lot at thecity park. The notes are from aninexperienced Chili taster named Frank,who was visiting from Canada.Frank: “Recently, I was honored to beselected as a judge at a chili cook-off.The original person called in sick at thelast moment and I happened to be standingthere at the judge’s table asking fordirections to the Coors Light truck, whenthe call came in. I was assured by theother two judges (Native Texans) that thechili wouldn’t be all that spicy and,besides, they told me I could have freebeer during the tasting, so I accepted”.Here are the scorecards from the event:Chili # 1 Mike’s Maniac Mobster MonsterChiliJudge # 1 — A little too heavy on thetomato. Amusing kick.Judge # 2 — Nice, smooth tomato flavor.Very mild.Judge # 3 — (Frank) Holy shit, what thehell is this stuff? You could removedried paint from your driveway. Took metwo beers to put the flames out. I hopethat’s the worst one. These Texans arecrazy.Chili # 2 Arthur’s Afterburner ChiliJudge # 1 — Smoky, with a hint of pork.Slight jalapeno tang.Judge # 2 — Exciting BBQ flavor, needsmore peppers to be taken seriously.Judge # 3 — Keep this out of the reach ofchildren. I’m not sure what I’m supposedto taste besides pain. I had to wave offtwo people who wanted to give me theHeimlich maneuver. They had to rush inmore beer when they saw the look on myface.Chili # 3 Fred’s Famous Burn Down the BarnChiliJudge # 1 — Excellent firehouse chili.Great kick. Needs more beans.Judge # 2 — A beanless chili, a bitsalty, good use of peppers.Judge # 3 — Call the EPA. I’ve located auranium spill. My nose feels like I havebeen snorting Drano. Everyone knows theroutine by now. Get me more beer before Iignite. Barmaid pounded me on the back,now my backbone is in the front part of mychest. I’m getting shit-faced from all ofthe beer.Chili # 4 Bubba’s Black MagicJudge # 1 — Black bean chili with almostno spice. Disappointing.Judge # 2 — Hint of lime in the blackbeans. Good side dish for fish or othermild foods, not much of a chili.Judge # 3 — I felt something scrapingacross my tongue, but was unable to tasteit. Is it possible to burn out tastebuds?Sally, the barmaid, was standing behind mewith fresh refills. That 300-lb. bitch isstarting to look HOT…just like thisnuclear waste I’m eating! Is chili anaphrodisiac?Chili # 5 Linda’s Legal Lip RemoverJudge # 1 — Meaty, strong chili. Cayennepeppers freshly ground, addingconsiderable kick. Very impressive.Judge # 2 — Chili using shredded beef,could use more tomato. Must admit thecayenne peppers make a strong statement.Judge # 3 — My ears are ringing, sweat ispouring off my forehead and I can nolonger focus my eyes. I farted and fourpeople behind me needed paramedics. Thecontestant seemed offended when I told herthat her chili had given me brain damage.Sally saved my tongue from bleeding bypouring beer directly on it from thepitcher. I wonder if I’m burning my lipsoff.It really pisses me off that the otherjudges asked me to stop screaming. Screwthose rednecks.Chili # 6 Vera’s Very Vegetarian VarietyJudge # 1 — Thin yet bold vegetarianvariety chili. Good balance of spices andpeppers.Judge # 2 — The best yet. Aggressive useof peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb.Judge # 3 — My intestines are now astraight pipe filled with gaseous,sulfuric flames. I shit myself when Ifarted and I’m worried it will eat throughthe chair. No one seems inclined to standbehind me except that slut Sally. Shemust be kinkier than I thought. Can’tfeel my lips anymore. I need to wipe myass with a snow cone.Chili # 7 Susan’s Screaming SensationChiliJudge # 1 — A mediocre chili with toomuch reliance on canned peppers.Judge # 2 — Ho hum, tastes as if the chefliterally threw in a can of chili peppersat the last moment. **I should take notethat I am worried about Judge # 3. Heappears to be in a bit of distress as heis cursing uncontrollably.Judge # 3 — You could put a grenade in mymouth, pull the pin, and I wouldn’t feel athing. I’ve lost sight in one eye, andthe world sounds like it is made ofrushing water. My shirt is covered withchili which slid unnoticed out of mymouth. My pants are full of lava likeshit to match my shirt. At least duringthe autopsy, they’ll know what killed me.I’ve decided to stop breathing, it’s toopainful. Screw it; I’m not getting anyoxygen anyway. If I need air, I’ll justsuck it in through the 4-inch hole in mystomach.Chili # 8 Tommy’s Toe-Nail Curling ChiliJudge # 1 — The perfect ending, this is anice blend chili. Not too bold but spicyenough to declare its existence.Judge # 2 — This final entry is a good,balance chili. Neither mild nor hot.Sorry to see that most of it was lost whenJudge # 3 farted, passed out, fell overand pulled the chili pot down on top ofhimself. Not sure if he’s going to makeit. Poor fella, wonder how he’d havereacted to really hot chili. —

  7. JamesHRH

    Toronto list seems to skew Asian in the world’s most diverse city.Not enough of a TO foodie to accuse anyone of peeing down their leg, but Hopgood’s Foodliner on Roncevalles should be on the list, as should The Chase Fish & Oyster.Kudos to them for turning it into such a success, seeing as it is a complete commodity (opinion are like earholes, everyone has 2 of them).(edit) pissed that there is no Calgary list, when there are lists for Charleston, Maine & Minneapolis. You’ll rue the day!

    1. William Mougayar

      The Chase is on it, #4. It’s an eclectic list. Picking the ultimate list is a never ending thing. Restaurants openings, closings and ratings are in constant flux.

      1. leigh

        I’d also put something like my local Dim Sum place (for me that’s either Rol San or Nobel’s on Dundas) and Athen’s pastry and pie. Eat both of those places for lunch often. Yum yum (although way less upscale than most of their choices on that list)

  8. Dan F

    I also like using the heat map to find restaurants. A smaller list than the essential 38, updated more frequently too.

    1. JamesHRH

      Heat map is a strong idea. After spending 15 mins on the site, its a really strong concept (kind of a Foodie Gossip Rag).

  9. levnaginsky

    I believe the Chicago Eater 38 list is updated quarterly (seasonally). The other cool thing is Eater pushes those updates their Foursquare list, so you always have it easily accessible. Those old E38 lists made me create my own and made it singlehandedly my favorite feature in the Foursquare app.

    1. pointsnfigures

      just looked at the Chicago Eater list. Meh. They need to update it. Some of those places have gone downhill, and one Hot Doug’s decided to end their run (sadly) Although, this is a good development:… Maybe NYC VC’s will feel like they can hang here now too : ) !

      1. levnaginsky

        Best on the Chicago list: Ruxbin, Mindy’s, Vera, Au Cheval, Avec, Lula Cafe, Yusho, Smoque. You’re right though, their winter update should reflect Hot Doug’s closing (sadly), etc. I am excited to try Shake Shack.

        1. pointsnfigures

          Green Street Meats…Pizza Parlor….

          1. levnaginsky

            You must live in the West Loop? I thought Pizza Parlor was just okay, nothing special. I haven’t been to Green St. Meats yet and I really want to try High Five Ramen right there. Also, there’s a sushi place in the Ukrainian Village, Kai Zan, that should absolutely be on an “essential” list in Chicago.

          2. pointsnfigures

            live in the Loop. I liked Pizza Parlor for thin crust-. Like Macelo’s too. Too many good places to eat in Chicago. Anteprima in Andersonville is pretty darn good as well.

  10. drmarasmith

    This is great. I always love a list on where to enjoy great food in different cities! Part of the fun of eating out is a new or purposefully repeated shared experience. Give something new a whirl. Perfect antidote to my incredulous depression after reading about Soylent as food “efficiency”. UGH. Thanks Fred

    1. JimHirshfield

      Agreed…what’s up with the liquid diet?

  11. William Mougayar

    Thanks for the shoutout Fred. The Toronto list is a good eclectic list that’s varied & diversified from high-end to casual, and covers a good mix of ethnic food choices.There were a couple I didn’t know about, and 6 I haven’t been to.Warning to critics: this isn’t a list of the best high-end restaurants, but it’s a very good list that shows the variety. It’s representative of Toronto.Idea for Eater: provide a Foursquare list link to each one of these, so you could see friends reviews, tips, etc. similar to what Tab payments has done for their list (mostly high-end)…

    1. JimHirshfield

      Ah, just seeing this now. πŸ˜‰

  12. Jesse Ingram

    The Minneapolis list is pretty spot on.

  13. awaldstein

    Ate at 3 of the NYC 38 with out of towners in the last month. Handful I don’t know about.

  14. leigh

    Gonna get my business partner who eats out about 4 days a week to speak to the Toronto list. He’s the pro.

  15. BillMcNeely

    Fred you are going out your way to make this Dallas Uber driver looking smart and cultured!

  16. Salt Shaker

    Seattle list pretty good. A few rests are on my reg list, a few I’ve wanted to try and a few I’ve never heard of. Fairly new and p/t res of the city so a good resource.Site keeps crashing though on iPhone and iPad. Wonder if AVC surge is responsible? Heat Map is a great idea. Sadly no app, but prob in the works.

  17. Dave Pinsen

    I like the idea a lot, but the UI feels kind of clunky on my iPhone 5.Related to this, Sidewalk was a cool site in the late ’90s – making it seem exciting to be in your city. Then it got absorbed by City Search and started looking like an online version of the old yellow pages. Wonder if there might be a niche for another Sidewalk today.

  18. Lock

    Thanks for the great post, Fred. As a bit of background, Ben Leventhal and I created the Eater 38 back in the early days of Eater — 2005 or 2006. The very first inductee in New York City was, of course, Balthazar, Ben’s favorite restaurant in the world. That really established the concept of “essential” vs. “best,” a concept that’s been tricky to adhere to as we’ve grown to cover more than two dozen cities across North America.Our original concept was that an Eater 38 restaurant should be the kind of restaurant you can call up at noon today and get a table for tonight. That works for most neighborhood restaurants, but as restaurants in general have gotten hotter and reservations harder to procure, we’ve had to rethink that a bit. The tension between how much a place costs also figures into the thinking: I love Michael White’s Marea in New York City, for instance, and we even had it on the E38 for a short spell, but we ultimately decided it just cost too much for the ethos of the list.Eater has on-the-ground editors in all its cities making the calls on the list (which are, indeed, updated quarterly). The editors are also charged with looking for a balance between what locals would like and what visitors to the city would like. I suspect this is where a bit of the tension from some commenters here about “place has gone downhill” stems from. Those sort of places should and do get rotated off, albeit in some cases not as fast as all locals would like. Regardless, as each E38 post makes clear, we’re all about feedback, so by all means bug the local editors with your thoughts if you think they’re offbase.Finally, a shoutout to the wonderfully named Budapest blog I was working in Budapest for Gawker in summer 2005 and discovered this site which offered a list of the city’s 25 essential restaurants. I found it so useful that I suggested to Ben we create something similar on Eater. Just 25 restaurants, though, for NYC didn’t feel like quite enough. But 50 was too much. So 38, then, just because.

    1. Kirsten Lambertsen

      Balthazar is still my favorite. That and Odeon. Purely for the romance πŸ™‚

      1. Anne Libby

        I’m with you, and The Odeon is definitely missing from this list.

      1. Lock

        Great call. I had totally forgotten that!

  19. Mario Cantin

    I love good, curated lists — didn’t know about Eater 38. I’ll ckeck out the Toronto version to help me find hopefully a few hidden gems.

  20. SubstrateUndertow

    Site interface is “ART VICTIM” material.

  21. Chipotle

    I can quibble with The San Diego list, but overall it’s a pretty good cross section of the SD dining scene. When going to a new city the Essential 38 is my starting place for researching places to eat. I then hit local foodie blogs, and finish by going to the city’s sub-reddit and posting a question or two.

  22. Pete Griffiths

    Hmmm.I have a pretty intimate knowledge of restaurants in West LA.The 38 isn’t terrible but it isn’t great either. A couple of good hits but…pretty disappointing.

    1. Donna Brewington White

      Glad to hear someone say this. I wouldn’t call my knowledge “intimate” but I was a bit surprised by the list. West LA has always been a foodie paradise but in recent years it has become even more robust and eclectic — maybe related to the emerging tech scene on the Westside?

  23. Brandon G. Donnelly

    Some of my favorite Toronto restos on that list!

  24. LE

    Lists are great circulation builders plain and simple.The key is forking and milking the list such as has been done with US News and World Reports and their college ranking.I first started paying attention to lists in the 70’s with the Philly Magaine “Best of Series” a clearly biased list of the places that the editors and writers of Philly Magazine took a shine to.I made the INC 500 list in the 80’s it was the biggest deal got lots of PR benefit from that and it helped me sell the business a few years later. The list was important back then and the buyers of the business really cared about the fact that we were on it.

  25. matthughes

    Fun.When did food get so smart?

  26. Donna Brewington White

    Better yet, follow the right people on Foursquare/Swarm. You, BTW, are pretty reliable. πŸ™‚

  27. ShanaC

    There is actually 2 places in queens. One of which is walkable – and there is a much better greek place in the neighborhood.*sigh*

  28. aminTorres

    always enjoy it when you talk about personal investments that are night and day to USV’s investment thesis.

    1. fredwilson

      joanne vs fredpersonal are hersUSV are mine and my partners

  29. Adrian Meli

    Hmmm. Hadn’t seen this before, but I love the idea. Seems like 38 restricts the ultimate number of cities they can enter, though. Great name!

  30. gsilberman

    Away from politics and back to Eater 38…I had emailed them recently about being able to print the Eat 38 list/and or save it , without it being 11 pages… and they replied that had a lot of comments about that and were working on something ( via the website) to allow us to print..or save the list …I think they are right on target in NY with their choices….

    1. fredwilson

      i can’t believe the political discussion has hijacked a perfectly good discussion about food!

      1. Dasher

        Politics, food, movies, sports – topics that everyone has an opinion on. They add spice to life.

      2. Anne Libby

        I can’t believe that you can’t believe it!

        1. Donna Brewington White

          I know, right?

    2. Lock

      This is a good idea that we’ve put off too long. Thanks for reminding me.

  31. JAJones

    I thought the NYC 38 was a solid list of restaurants both old and new….even threw in a Jersey City restaurant for good measure.

  32. JLM

    .Love the video particularly the appropriate earth tone clothing. The guy has a green thumb and a green shirt. The gentle green giant, the Sage of Lancaster.JLM.

  33. JimHirshfield

    The Carl38 – 38 Essential Home Cooked Meals

  34. jason wright

    i never eat out – i don’t trust restaurants to source, store, or prepare food properly.

  35. JimHirshfield

    A boiled egg is hard to beat.

  36. JLM

    .Yes, of course you’re right. My bad. I didn’t realize it was the Republicans who told me I could keep my doctor, insurance policy.Please accept my apology.It WAS George W Bush all along, wasn’t it?The worst President in the last century capsized the boat and drowned all the passengers when he ran the ship of state aground. On the shore, he pointed out to sea and said: “It’s the racist Republicans.”But it’s the Republicans fault, no?I think the furious American voters got it right. Don’t get me wrong, the Republicans will still make a sincere attempt to screw it all up. But in the land of the blind, the one eyed Jack reigns supreme. Right now, the Republicans have a single working eye.On a serious note, see my thoughts about the election here:http://themusingsofthebigre…JLM.

  37. Salt Shaker

    Ah yes, an Oliver Douglas clone.”Green Acres is the place to be, farm living is the life for me.”Only thing missing in your vid is a broken down tractor and a pig named Arnold. Loved that show. So bad, it was great!…

  38. Salt Shaker

    “The Republicans did not really win, the Democrats β€” especially President Obama β€” lost.” That’s it in a nutshell. Hopefully, the GOP doesn’t get fat and stupid. Now that they’re empowered, they have an opp to move the needle away from the abyss. Yes, the Big O has veto power, but if he doesn’t play nice with the other kids, he sets the table for a horrific showing for the Dems in 2016. There’s no longer a place (or hopefully a need) for continual rhetoric.

  39. JLM

    .Oh, yes, Republicans lie and Democrats “miscalculate” — hahaha, that’s very good.Please go change your shirt, it’s covered with koolaide.Tell the 20MM folks without jobs or underemployed how good the economic numbers are right now and check back with them when the President legalizes the 12-20MM illegals in the country. That’s going to be great for wages and incomes, no?The worst President in a century and not quite done yet. That is the verdict of the election but what do those stupid American voters know anyway? They’re not as smart as the guys in the White House.A very subtle sense of how angry the electorate is can be gleaned by the gubernatorial elections — Republicans won in Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Ohio and Florida. The last two are very important for the 2016 elections.Oh, yes, Greg Abbott beat Abortion Barbie in Texas by a landslide.JLM.

  40. andyswan

    Obama gets both houses and presidency.Dems deliver massive step to the left.Voters say WTF?!?!?GOP promises gridlock.GOP delivers gridlock.Libs say sky falling, voters will punish.Economy improves, country improves.Voters understand gridlock is good.Voters say GIVE ME MORE GRIDLOCKHuge GOP winHere comes gridlock…OR… executive and legislative both overplaying their weak-ass hands. Stay tuned.

  41. JLM

    .There is no place better to get an opinion as to what’s going on in Texas other than say — Washington DC, no?My favorite fact — take Texas job creation out of the mix and the balance of the country has created ZERO jobs.The Workforce Participation Rate is at 1978 levels, the only reason unemployment has moved downward. We still have fewer jobs than when President Obama promised to heal the oceans or some other such nonsense. No, the country is still in a big problem and if anyone is looking for a track record to run on, it won’t be President Obama’s.Bush bad. Obama good. Got it.Of course, the American voter didn’t see it exactly that way not just in the Senate but also in the statehouses. I am not a Republican fanboy but I can tell the difference between chicken salad and chickenshit.JLM.

  42. LE

    Unemployment dropped from the Bush economy peak to what is it now, 5.9% Dow up over 17k, gas at 2.89 even in lil’ ol Lancaster, and the Giants won the pennant.My personal feeling is that it’s a pox on both of yer’s houses for quoting any facts and figures to back up your points. [1]The fact is decisions play out over time. It’s like a kid complaining he has to study, go to bed early, and eat well which may come in handy when he’s 35 with a family and kids.I’m reminded when I was in college and there was an Orthodox jew and a “Jews for Jesus” arguing on Locust Walk about some obscure point in Judaism. As if what they were arguing about was even real in the first place and not totally made up and fantasy. (It was pretty funny to see people quoting the bible from different perspectives).[1] Separately I’ve always said that having Oil in Texas goes a long way to helping with any miracle there. Not to take away from what the politicians did given that advantage but still you can’t really compare with another state that doesn’t have that leg up.

  43. ShanaC

    Can we wait a week after elections to talk about politics. We have a lot of die hards. We tend to fight about politics. The day after is always an angry day. Can we just not be angry together today?

  44. JLM

    .”Obama’s been good for Texas with job creation…”On that statement alone, one should run to their doctor or their psychiatrist. Obama has not been good for much of anything. Even Illinois elected a Republican Governor.Texas has been good for Texas job creation.No income taxes. Low levels of regulation. Shale, fracking, little Federal land to impede the issuance of drilling permits.Great universities — save Longhorn football team this year.Population growth — no, we are not part of California yet. People voting with their feet.Low cost of living.Texas business climate has been good for Texas.JLM.

  45. Pete Griffiths

    “The worst President in a century..” ??I voted for Obama and have been extremely disappointed. I know that the Republican strategy of the politics on destruction was partly responsible for his ineffective terms, but I am under no illusions – it was also significantly the consequence of his own weaknesses.But the idea that he is the wort President in a century is (to me) just ludicrous. His failures pall into insignificance compared with the idiot child who preceded him.

  46. JLM

    .I love a sophisticated intellectual argument like Bush BAD, Obama therefore GOOD. So stimulating and so sound.Why did anyone have any expectations for this guy to start with?He had NO executive experience of any kind. He had NO life experience to prepare him for the job. He had only campaigned. He is a brilliant campaigner but this Emperor has no clothes on.He has not outperformed those low expectations. In fairness, he was not prepared for the job and he has not grown into it and he doesn’t want to.To make matters worse, he has surrounded himself with a similar team.Look elsewhere if you want some Bush balm on your Obama sores, my friend.JLM.

  47. LE

    Charlie it wouldn’t kill you if you are doing videos like this for promotional purposes to have at least:a) A Chyron (lower third) with website name, organization name, your name ie…b) A big honking logo on your green tshirt.c) Something that records in higher resolution than what I used in 1985.

  48. Salt Shaker

    Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but I think O finally makes the needed compromises to eliminate gridlock. Does he really have a choice? The GOP unquestionably were the obstructionists during his tenure, but it consisted of many extremists, including the Tea Party (who hopefully will now shrivel up and die). An overall “band of fools.” With the GOP now having a controlling majority in both houses, O and/or his party can ill afford to draw a hard line in the sand. It’s not like he’s got to raise a white flag, but a yellow one certainly can’t hurt.Exercising too much veto power would kill O’s legacy and paint him as a failed, do nothing Pres, an opinion I don’t necessarily subscribe to currently, but many do.Maybe I’m just being unreasonably and foolishly optimistic.

  49. Pete Griffiths

    Please don’t patronize me.”Bush BAD, Obama therefore GOOD”I didn’t say anything of the kind. In fact rather the contrary. I know perfectly well that he was inexperienced and that many of his failures were due to his inability to learn fast enough to overcome that shortcoming. Indeed it may well be that he is temperamentally ill equipped for executive work. He is apparently a professor more than a manager. He thinks he can outflank political compromise with technocratic ‘solutions.’So please don’t stick me in your ‘Obama good unthinking cretin’ box.Do me that courtesy and I won’t put you in the ‘support Bush even though he patently screwed up’ box.I didn’t detail why I think that considering Bush to have been a still worse President than Obama. But if you fail to see that this is even a reasonable position then we’re not having a discussion, are we?I’m pretty disappointed you would jump on a soap box like this and put words in my mouth. Easily done though.

  50. sigmaalgebra

    Well, JLM, now, now, now, have to be a littlepatient. Give him a little time to learn!So, he had to learn about bowing, e.g., tothe Chinese:And similarly to the French, Japanese, and Saudis.And maybe in the third grade he missed a day sostill had to learn to respect the US flag as in:And, have to admit, he did have some knowledgeof political history:And he did have romantic feelings:

  51. sigmaalgebra

    At…we now have”100% of Newly Elected GOP Senators Campaigned on Repealing Obamacare”, November 5, 2014 – 11:43 AMGee, 100%!But, but, but, they are being so impatient andeven unfair! I mean, it’s so unreasonable and so cruel to hold so strongly against BHO for just onelittle mistakie. I mean, BHO never claimed he was a medical doctor! So, it was so unfair, UNfair, for the American College of Surgeons, on August 12, 2009 to use words such as “uninformed, misinformed, dangerous, just plain wrong”!

  52. jason wright

    If the price of oil drops fracking is a dead industry. Saudi Arabia makes a profit at sub $40 a barrel.

  53. JLM

    .New entries have to hit that mark but so much has already been fracked — sunk costs — that fracking is now all about actual production.Enough ground has been already fracked that the increases in production are permanent.The next way station for energy in the US is energy independence which has the side benefits of killing the necessity for gun boat oil politics.We become energy independent which is about 2-3 years away and the fact that Iran is astride the Straits of Hormuz becomes a game show oddity.Wouldn’t hurt to build the Keystone pipeline, a couple of refineries and about 50 nuclear plants on the way to independence.JLM.

  54. Girish Mehta

    Was thinking about oil price trend relative to fracking investments. Typically see ~ $85-$90 quoted as the breakeven price for Saudi Arabia (e.g. the economist below). Thanks.…p.s. This is supposed to be the point at which the country’s current national budget breaks even.

  55. JLM

    .I actually do not support Bush or his legacy. Never have.He was a very good Governor of Texas. Superb. Much of what is good about Texas is attributable to him. Rick Perry didn’t touch the azimuth or speed, he kept it at the settings set by Bush.Bush the President created a huge unfunded health mandate and the largest unnecessary department in the history of the US. He had a shining moment on the rubble of 9-11. He poorly fought wars perhaps against the wrong enemies.Was it you who wrote: “His failures pall into insignificance compared with the idiot child who preceded him.”Stones, glass houses, etc.Own your words, my friend. They came from your mouth, no?JLM.

  56. LE

    I gave you the edge btw simply because you didn’t say something like this:Please go change your shirt, it’s covered with koolaide.I mean don’t get me wrong I don’t think people need to patronize and/or grin fuck their opponent but I personally dislike anything that smacks of a parental putdown in order to gain the upper hand over an opponent in a discussion or disagreement.

  57. JLM

    .Bad news — if you think you might be crazy, you’re not. I know firsthand as I am a little crazy. It’s like a spice, flavors my life.JLM.

  58. JLM

    .Long term solar and wind and hydro are the way to go. It will take some time before they are cost effective. Germany is a much smaller country. France on the other hand is almost 75% nuclear electric power.JLM.

  59. Salt Shaker

    No President is immune from criticism or beyond reproach, and one can always find a silver lining in even the worst of administrations.But when you say “he (Bush) poorly fought wars perhaps against the wrong enemies,” it can’t possibly get any more damning that that, no? Billions of dollars later and with hundreds of thousands either killed, maimed and/or psychologically damaged, it’s hard to paint the Bush/Chaney legacy in any other light but negative, irrespective of any other accomplishments they may have achieved.Particularly as a military man, I’m surprised you don’t view Bush that way.

  60. Pete Griffiths

    I am happy to own my own words. Just not the ones you put into my mouth.””Bush BAD, Obama therefore GOOD”That isn’t and never has been my point and I don’t believe I have said a single thing that would lead anyone taking what I have said seriously to suppose that is my believe.If you would like a more accurate yet still succinct statement of my position it would be something like:”Bush TERRIBLE, Obama not as BAD but to say the least EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTING but there is no THEREFORE about it.Hope that helps clear up what I really think. Happy he worked out for you guys in Texas. πŸ™‚

  61. LE

    Seems that it ran by way of the local newspaper Lancaster Online that’s what you probably meant. They need to step up the production game then. Sorry that my comment was directed at you the fact that they have people that lack basic skills in this area is sad. I put 100 times the effort into my brother in laws wedding videos.

  62. JLM

    .You are talking to the wrong guy, Salt Shaker. I am not defending Bush on anything. He was a superb Governor of Texas. End of statement.The rest of it you are on your own.As to the wars, in my view we had a chance to attack two countries post 9-11. Henry Kissinger agrees with that assessment.We should have attacked Afghanistan and Iran.We should have knocked the crap out of them and then turned it over to the UN. Incredibly violent, short, fierce wars. Like the first two weeks of the second Iraq war. We are great at war and suck at peace. The Army is not organized to “wage peace”.As a former professional soldier, I have always opposed conquering and keeping territory. It’s too damn expensive. Go to foreign lands, kill our enemies, come home, spend the money on Newark. Return every ten years if necessary.JLM.

  63. LE

    I have an aunt who is the “nice aunt” and an uncle (now deceased) that was a total loose cannon. [1]The aunt would always ask me things like “oh how is school how are your kids” while the uncle (who always competed with my dad) would say these truly nasty wacky things. You never knew what would come out of his mouth. He would put everyone down including my dad (which typically isn’t a smart thing to do, right?)I was never bored being around the uncle but couldn’t take more than 30 seconds of the “nice” aunt. (Think church lady stereotype).My ex wife would always meet people (she was a people person) and would come home and tell me that “so and so is so nice and her husband is so nice”. I thought I don’t give a shit if he’s a nice guy I want to be entertained and amused (or at least educated). That’s what I liked about my uncle. I was never bored and always entertained.[1] One reason my Uncle was like this was he was a small businessman. So he had employees totally fawning over him as well as suppliers (he traveled overseas) where they allowed him to say whatever the fuck he wanted to because, well, he gave them business.

  64. Donna Brewington White

    It’s more fun when you own your craziness. I know.

  65. JLM

    .Those crazy, radical Tea Partiers — radicals.Balanced budgets, deficit reduction, spending control, reduce the size of government, repay the national debt — wild, crazy notions.The Tea Party forced the Republicans to field better candidates like Gardner in Colorado who defeated Sen Uterus who was focused, well…………….you know where that’s going, no?The Tea Party, like the French Resistance, is an organization whose binding glue is opposition to ideas which are opposed individually and collectively — like letting the IRS run rough shod over conservatives.Like the French Resistance — Loyalists, Royalists, Communists, Socialists, Unionists, workers — they will continue to exist as long as the organizing theme continues to exist.Once the Republicans and others get us back on the road to financial prosperity there will be no need for them to exist much as when the Germans were defeated there was no need for the French Resistance.Make no mistake, this election was about pissed off voters and the Tea Party educated folks what to be pissed off about. The Republicans listened and they won — no, really the Democrats lost.JLM.

  66. Salt Shaker

    I understand you’re not defending Bush, but I am surprised you’re not critical of him, independent of what he may/may not have achieved as Gov in your fine state. His legacy will overwhelmingly be defined by his Presidency, not by his time in the Governor’s mansion, ownership of the Rangers, etc.I agree w/ your POV on invading Afghanistan, although I scratch my head hard w/ respect to Iran, as I would w/ Pakistan, North Korea, etc. U.N. Operators are peacekeepers, which inherently require the parties they are monitoring understand and desire peace. The Warlords of Afghan would hardly be welcoming w/ a fruit basket, nor could the U.N. possibly provide answers to the religious strife that permeates the region. We lack an understanding of the culture and deep rooted feelings that drive that part of the world, as we similarly do in the Middle East.

  67. RichardF

    It is way too expensive I was utterly shocked to discover 100bn spent on Afghanistan more than the Marshall plan in real termS…….. WTF

  68. JLM

    .Not to go all intellectual on you but I once thought the Bush legacy would be the injection of democracy into the Middle East. It would take root and spread.The Arab Spring seemed like the real deal at first but has now morphed in a situation infinitely worse than the situation from whence it sprung. The entire Middle East is on fire and will be for a long, long time. It is only going to get worse.Mark my words, the US is getting ready to accept a nuclear armed Iran which will set off an arms race like none other. We might actually see a nuclear detonation before it ends.The UN doesn’t spend money on infrastructure, it is a housekeeping force — Kosovo, Golan Heights, etc. Where we got in trouble was building infrastructure — it is even more expensive than Newark. I would rather spend the money in Appalachia or Newark.Unfortunately, we understand the religious and tribal implications almost perfectly. The Al Anbar Awakening was David Petreaus bribing one side to rat out the other. He didn’t need a PhD to figure that out.There is a reason why we didn’t tell Pakistani intel we were coming to get Osama — too many Pashtuns in the agency. Shows we were paying attention.We are a tribal nation ourselves — one tribe just overthrew the other last night. After all we did steal the joint from the Indians, no?JLM.

  69. sigmaalgebra

    Can we add up the cost per gallon of gasoline/Dieselfromnuke electric power + coal + water –> gasoline/DieselThere is an old Scientific American article thatsays that from Utah coal can put gasoline in a pipelinefor $0.65 a gallon.Wonder what the cost would be now.

  70. Pete Griffiths

    This article is interesting wrt shale oil.…I don’t pretend to understand the issues/economics, but I do know that Hall is a frighteningly smart guy.

  71. ShanaC

    i dunno, just the day after elections is a bad day to discuss politics. Fighting words day. (goes for you to @JLM:disqus)

  72. sigmaalgebra

    For discussing politics, this is one of the bestInternet fora! Anywhere else, there would be just mud wrestling!

  73. ShanaC

    sometimes people get really angry at each other though. Occasionally they name call the other person. I can’t make them behave perfectly. Occasionally people have walked away from here. Then I get after election is hard.

  74. sigmaalgebra

    I don’t see solar or wind: Really they needstorage, and so far that costs more thangeneration from coal, nukes, hydro.A lot of use of solar/wind will mean thatthe 24 x 7 grid supply will have to raisetheir prices to cover their expenses whenthey are not getting revenue, and, net,I suspect, prices will be higher, not lower.

  75. JLM

    .The numbers don’t work now but perhaps one day. I love the idea of solar but I’ve looked at a lot of commercial applications and the numbers never work.JLM.

  76. sigmaalgebra

    With solar cells cheap and durable enough,solar will work fine as soon as we just finda way to get the sun to shine 24 x 7.But, but, but, there is a way! It’s called theDyson sphere! So, we wrap a sphere aroundthe sun and the orbit of the earth. Then justpaint the inside with white paint …!See, see, see, the Greenies weren’t totallyall full of it after all! Instead, they were justthinking of a Dyson sphere (without knowingit).

  77. JLM

    .Ooops, sorry, nodded off there for a second.Distinction without any difference?Why is Bush’s performance even relevant to Obama’s six years in?Did you catch the President’s press conference? The guy is a college professor, the kind who never earns tenure. He — your guy — is terrible.Back to my nap.JLM.

  78. JLM

    ,There is so much shale out there that Texas reserves may be as high as if not one barrel of oil had ever left the ground since Spindletop.The shale play is not just a pure play it is also a reclaim play.The shale technology — fracking, directional drilling — is also a secondary recovery technology which means existing fields which were thought to only be able to recover 60% of identified reserves can now hope to recover 95% and maybe more.The shale play is huge and will continue for a long time. All we need is a little encouragement on Federal lands and we will be energy independent in 2-3 years.This is why Keystone and refinery permissions are so critical now. They will be coming on line when production is overwhelming transport and refining capacity.JLM.

  79. LE

    I hate the entire class of people that puts out mediocre shit.I was in the local “almost like Whole Foods” that opened recently in my “mediocre” part of the state that I live in.They had these awesome nuts that I had purchased but weeks later at the office I couldn’t figure out the place that I had bought them from. “Hmm was it Whole Foods?”When I went back to the “ALWF” they were there. They had a label but the label didn’t say where they were from. So I mentioned it to the customer service person “you know you should have your name on these” to which she (and the man next to her said) “oh they must have run out of labels”. Of course the labels were auto generated by the printer and could have easily had the name of the store even if the preprints were missing. They then proceeded to ring up my order and say “have a nice day”. In other words they won’t tell anyone at all nobody will ever know about this small thing. Then multiple that by 1000 things and you have “this place sucks”. I hate stuff like that it’s so lame. And easily correctable if there are people who have a clue in charge.

  80. Pete Griffiths

    As I said, I don’t understand oil at all. I just hope you’re right.

  81. Pete Griffiths

    That’s just rude.

  82. JLM

    .Petie, rude is OK.We’re a couple of guys who wandered into a bar, Freddie’s Place. We both ordered up a beer. Turns out you’re wearing a Oklahoma Sooners tee shirt and I’m wearing a Texas Longhorns tee shirt.You tell me the Horns suck and I tell you the Sooners suck.We finish our beers and go about our business.We didn’t find the cure for cancer under those beer coasters and we didn’t draw blood.Rude? Maybe a little but that’s the way folks genuinely act in bars. The solution? Stop hanging out in bars and take a bath in diesel to toughen up your skin.If it makes you feel better I’ll even apologize. But rude is gonna be OK. Just a little rude.The Sooners suck, Petie.JLM.