If You Lie Down With Dogs, You Come Up With Fleas

I don’t know enough to say with any confidence that our President is a supremacist.

But he made a cold hard political calculation that paid off for him when he made these horrible people the foundation of his political base and fired them and their hatred up at his campaign rallies.

He can’t throw them under the bus now, even if he wanted to.

This poses immense problems for him, his ability to govern, his administration, and the people who accepted roles in it.

Supremacists are not fine people, they are repugnant and hateful, and they should be shunned by our society.

Instead, for political reasons, if not for other reasons, we have our President asserting their morality.

That isn’t going to work for our President as I am confident America won’t tolerate this.

This is likely to tear apart the coalition that elected him and make it easier for his opponents to fight him at every turn.

And that is a good thing.

The only good thing to come from this horrible moment that we are going through in America.


Comments (Archived):

  1. awaldstein

    This has gone from embarrassment to the truly ugly.I had and have faith that what is right and ethical would also become politically expedient.I trust this is beginning now.

    1. JamesHRH

      Sigh.Trump bungled this massively. However, I would ask you to find and read my main post.Being convinced of your superior morality and subjecting others to the poison of identity politics is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

      1. sigmaalgebra

        > Trump bungled this massively.I listened to his speeches for the last few days and thought he did GREAT, terrific leadership, calm people down, stop the fighting, slow the divisions, save lives.

      2. awaldstein

        I have no idea what you are talking about unfortunately.

        1. JamesHRH

          That’s sad.

  2. WA


  3. Abs Ghosh


  4. WA

    My father-in-law spent the beginning of his life fighting this oppression on the battlefields of Europe. He has continued that campaign throughout his 93 years here lecturing for the past two decades to tens of thousands of students throughout Florida. Here’s his take. http://www.wptv.com/news/re

    1. Pete Griffiths

      Bless him.

    2. panterosa,

      “Freedom of killing. Freedom of hatred. Freedom of racism.”He is right – the swastika symbolizes that, and more.

    3. ShanaC

      thank him for me.

      1. Richard

        And me! But some seem to be arguing or implying that the alt-left black mask protestors are the moral equivalent of our greatest heroes, the savers of the free world. That’s chutzpah.

  5. obarthelemy

    Hasn’t the same kowtowing to narrow special interests been happening with previous presidents, especially with religious bigots and capitalists ?The present brand of ugliness is more direct and visible, but the previous ones, more insidious, were probably more damaging to more people. Nice if this serves as a wake-up call, but useless if we just roll back one abhorrent president to the previous toxic ones.Symptoms, meet causes ?

    1. leigh

      Everyone should stop talking partisan politics and start talking about policies and leadership. The conversation right now isn’t about the past it’s about your future.

      1. JamesHRH

        That’s the best White Supremacist argument ever – you people are living in the past.Well put Leigh!

  6. Vendita Auto

    “Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.” ~Theodore Roosevelt

  7. Pete Griffiths

    Well said.The ultimate irony is that these people think they are patriots. The truth is that they have no understanding of the values that inspired the founders, the European history and Enlightenment that inspired those values or the key documents that resulted from those values and understanding of history – the Federalist Papers, the Constitution… They laud the Republic but don’t understand it. They are not patriots, for a patriot stands for the core principles of the Republic. This rabble is constituted of entitled ultra nationalist racists angry that their unearned privileges are under challenge (largely from globalization) and who are responding in best Pavlovian fashion to the manipulative dog whistles of those politicians who seek their support when it suits them.

    1. JLM

      .Might I pick a nit with you as it relates to our Founders? Love them all, particularly Geo Washington. Adore the guy.They were all universally white, wealthy, and racist — if your definition of racism is based upon the notion that a non-white person is deserving of a smaller slice of what became the American dream by virtue solely of their race.Geo W was a slave owner and with the holdings of his wife was, arguably, the largest slave owner of his time. And, yet, the guy standing next to him in the painting of his crossing the Delaware River is a black man who was his greatest support on a personal level during the Revolution.Billy Lee was purchased, at age 18, by Washington for sixty-one pounds, fifteen shillings and he was the sole man on Earth who was at Washington’s side during his life. Freed upon Washington’s death, he lived out his life at Mount Vernon. He was married to a free black woman.People don’t seem to know that Geo Washington was considered the most able horseman in the Colonies, but there was one man who could out ride him — Billy Lee.Lee was Washington’s aide-de-camp and carried his extra horses and binoculars/telescopes/maps into battle.White supremacy is a tiny block of a steadily contracting region of the US and is not and never will be a winning political block. The numbers are simply not there and they are not determinant of the states in which they reside. They are not a political force.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

      1. SubstrateUndertow

        “They are not a political force.”You don’t have to be a “political force” to be a highly destructive force.

        1. JLM

          .You’re pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.If you are a “highly destructive force” you are a political force. How can it be otherwise?The media is the source of their power. They allow them to punch way above their weight class.The Friday night torch light parade in C’ville was less than 75 shitheads chanting ridiculous, absurd, stupid shit. The media made them into something larger when they were pathetic losers and nothing more.Losers with tiki torches. Chanting stupid shit.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          1. JamesHRH

            I am stunned how many people refuse to accept that police paying attention to these losers is important, but it is just as important to have the rest of us ignore them.People putting their own feels in front of the best interests of society.

          2. SubstrateUndertow

            “have the rest of us ignore them”That would be great but contextually unrealistic as it breaks all the rules go media-ecology.

          3. LE

            I am probably not the first person to think that they police did not get involved as much as they should have because they didn’t want something to happen that could be hung on them or scrutinized as inappropriate.

          4. LE

            The media made them into something larger when they were pathetic losers and nothing more.And this is always the case. The root of most evil. It’s where ‘fair and balanced’ meets the profit motive and/or supporting a particular agenda. It always seems though that the profit motive (and now it’s worse because we have ‘survival of the enterprise’) is even clearly above agenda.

          5. JamesHRH

            Dan Rather knows the exact date that CBS executives realized that CBS NEWS could be a profit centre.

          6. SubstrateUndertow

            Your pissing on your own leg :-)”If you are a “highly destructive force” you are a political force. How can it be otherwise?”That was exactly my pointed implication. Thank you for making my case which was in response to your claim! “White supremacy is a tiny block of a steadily contracting region of the US and is not and never will be a winning political block.but can historically be a very destructive political block and is not necessarily “steadily contracting”?The media is the source of their power. They allow them to punch way above their weight class.The media is the source of all our, punch way above our weight class, collective meme power! Thats just how media-ecology works. Whats your point?

          7. JLM

            .The media in the US represents a single point of view and is supportive of the Dem party. Registrations, contributions, work product objectively supports that assertion.While supporting all things Dem, they also oppose all things Trump.Trump has re-written the communication strategy for all political campaigns, not just by going over the media, but by mastering the messaging and becoming the first social media President.The media can’t stand it and is attempting to re-assert themselves.It, going directly to the public via social media and personal outreach, won Donald J Trump the election, in spite of the media, the pundits, the pollsters, the GOPe, the DEMe, HRC all saying otherwise.It will win him re-election.From a policy perspective, he has enacted a world of good policy. The people are getting that and the media are ignoring it.Re-election is almost a certainty and he has the media to thank for it.Using the anger of the 2014 mid-terms as my chicken entrails, I predicted exactly that Trump could win and that he would win at a point in time when everyone scoffed at his getting the nomination.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          8. Lawrence Brass

            Win him re-election… OMG. Possible but terrible. Depends on the opposing candidate. From thin air I bet he would lose against Joe Biden if the election is held today.I think that he has never switched back from campaign mode and never will.He has the world’s attention, the launch codes and his twitter account, with no doubt he is actually the most powerful and influential person in the world.The only thing I wish is that he do good with all that power, not just for the USA.What do you mean by “enacting a world of good policy” ?

          9. JLM

            .If you want to be honest about Trump, you have to put the name calling aside and look at policy. On policy, I am very high on the guy.http://themusingsofthebigre…Only read that if you want to engage in an adult convo on policy, not if you want to call names.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          10. Lawrence Brass

            I respect your opinions Jeff, I have learned things reading you and the fine people that frequent this place. Excuse me if i got carried away by the bar fight, on the house, today. :)I am a gentleman with gentlemen, it is an implicit rule among gentlemen, you know that better than me.Will read BRC..

          11. JLM

            .Lawrence, you are, indeed, a gentleman. Even gentlemen need to mix it up a bit. You have absolutely no reason to be concerned.I know you to be a thoughtful and inciteful man whose words I respect and value.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          12. Lawrence Brass

            Very kind words. Thank you.We should request Fred to allow a monthly bar fight day in the rules. Low punches and covfefe, on the house, to relax tensions. 🙂

          13. JLM

            .I think today might be that day. I have to run. It’s KKK monthly meeting day. OMG, did I just say that?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          14. JamesHRH

            Biden is amazingly likable and has a closet full of completely indefensible votes and policy positions.Dems need a new voice that resets the party on a new set of principles and distances them from identity politics.

          15. JLM

            .Joe Biden is a water boy. He hangs out in the locker room with the jocks, but he himself is a “jock sniffer.”I would contribute to his campaign to get the nomination.Kamala Harris — keep your eye on her. She is a good looking, female Barack Obama from California. A very traditional, liberal Dem from California. Right now, she is the odds on favorite for 2020.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          16. Lawrence Brass

            A female President would do good to the USA. There are sensibilities and priorities that only women can work with. If a society or team needs caring and healing, there are good chances that a woman could provide that kind of leadership.

          17. JLM

            .If Condoleeza Rice decides to run, I sell everything, quit everything, and go to work for her.My Perfect Daughter took in the Masters while staying in the same cabin with Condoleeza Rice at the Masters.I envy her that experience.I thought it was going to be Elizabeth Dole.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          18. JamesHRH

            That’s an excellent call. I worry she has a little too much Auntie Maxine in her bones – sizzle over steak. But, she has all the tools and could be a great candidate.

          19. PhilipSugar

            You know why he didn’t run? You saw my picture of him on election day? I’ll repost. Did not want to take the abuse of Hilliary, didn’t have the heart after his son died.That A-hole Baptist church group showed up at his funeral. You know who through hot coffee at them??? A serious Republican Vietnam Vet. You know where the new DA lives? Two doors down from my BIL. They refused to prosecute.He has skeltons. Less than most.

          20. JamesHRH

            He’s not getting the messaging right, right now.

          21. SubstrateUndertow

            Extra…extra…GOP victims of media bias.That is not a partisan subjective view by any chance now is it?Keep on triangulating that precious “window of doubt” it is serving you and the nation well.It just looks so different for outside the USA looking in :-0

          22. Salt Shaker

            JLM, you keep harping on the numbers. It doesn’t matter if it’s 5, 10 or 15 thousand. The fact this ideology (neo-nazism, white supremacy, etc.) exists at all in our country is troublesome, presumably more so for someone like yourself who went to war for this country’s beliefs, rights and principles? This also isn’t about the media giving these relatively small groups disproportionate attention either, it’s about values and principals that are increasingly being compromised and discarded.An ideological civil war in our country has existed for many centuries; nothing hardly new there, and it’s never likely going away either. Most of it is rooted in what we call democracy. However, Trump’s rhetoric often stimulates discord, frequently and allegedly in the pursuit of economic growth, which is good, but often without his having an appreciation or understanding of the impact his words/actions have on perception, morality and ethics (e.g., healthcare).Trump’s incendiary actions and inability to temper his words, (or preemptively right a wrong without external pressure), serves as an accelerant that empowers the fringe, even if that hardly was his intention. Somehow and inconceivably that is lost on him.There are so many aspects to this President and his Presidency that reveal his naïveté about the job and task at hand, beyond defining success or failure by the numbers. The job is highly nuanced and the importance of qualitative factors (e.g., consumer perception, confidence, flexibility, exhibiting an understanding and appreciation for all sides/facets) seems to be totally lost on him, and that I believe is intentional because he defines success/failure so myopically.

          23. PhilipSugar

            No, it does really matter the number of people. It really does.Now onto the President that is a separate matter.

          24. Salt Shaker

            Phillip, numbers matter when it’s a resource allocation issue. Merck won’t explore R&D on a drug that has limited volume and profit potential. This is different. I’m not talking about suppression of free speech, I’m talking suppression of violence or the potential for violence. Ask Heather’s dad if numbers matter. They’ll be more Heather’s if this isn’t adequately addressed. This ideology is admittedly small, but growing. It can and easily has escalated to terrorism.

          25. creative group

            Salt Shaker:Without stirring up those who really don’t require a reason to support anything Trump even if he stood in the middle of Times Square and shot and killed a person they would defend it.Trump’s skill set is not aligned with what is required and needed for the job description and duties of President of The United States of America.UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

          26. JamesHRH

            I agree with Phil, the numbers are important.And, the area you have identified, the public figure role, is being botched.I have stated it too much here today: its mostly driven by his narcissism and Bannon’s amateurism. A real pro could have him make his points and bake the reaction into the wording.Troubling.

          27. ShanaC

            the one time one person called my school saying they were coming to blow it up (when I was in middle school, remember, jewish school), it put the school on lockdown all dayit was just one person. By all accounts, charlottesville was far more frighteninghttp://reformjudaism.org/bl…Meanwhile, there were credible threats to the actual synagogue the day of the rally to the local synagogue, to the point where they hired extra security, a guy from the navy volunteered to keep watch, they moved all their sifrei torah off premise. This turned out to be a good idea, apparently the building was stalked all weekend by alt-right people in khakis and polos carrying guns

      2. Pete Griffiths

        I don’t feel that is picking a nit with me.You are of course absolutely correct that the practices of the founders, including the most ‘enlightened’ didn’t match the ideals we see them as espousing. People are complex and it is easy to misunderstand earlier times.

      3. Pete Griffiths

        I don’t know if you have come across this. I found it fascinating.https://www.amazon.com/gp/a…”A First Rate Madness” is an examination of the surprising links between mental illness and leadership.

    2. sigmaalgebra

      You are talking about less than 1% of the population.

      1. Pete Griffiths

        Do you mean people who understand our history and founding values?

        1. sigmaalgebra

          For my 1% remark, apparently I misunderstood your post. You had, what, some rhetorical questions? For those, I read too fast. I spent way too much time in this thread so was reading too quickly and didn’t understand.More broadly, for the people being violent last weekend, actually I refused to look at the videos or even read the detailed coverage. To me, it was all just a violent political riot, and I didn’t want to make any distinctions on who was the worst, to blame, to strain to find who did or didn’t have a good position, etc.In particular, I have heard nearly nothing about any US Nazis and before the weekend heard nothing about any US White Supremacists or Antifa.I have understanding enough of our Constitution to realize that we have freedom of speech, assembly, the press, right to petition government for redress of grievances, laws, courts of law, law enforcement, due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc.So, I don’t care if some wacko groups are using these parts of our Constitution. If they are wackos, then I will try to ignore them. I don’t want them denounced, renounced, criticized by the POTUS, SCOTUS, newsies, etc. I don’t want them violently attacked in the streets.But if the wackos seriously violate some serious laws, then I want our law enforcement and legal system to respond, not because they are wackos or are saying offensive things but just because they are seriously violating some serious laws.When people see wackos they find offensive, then they may, frequently do, have emotions that want those wackos stopped, e.g., violently attacked in the streets. So, for each group of wackos some people find offensive, those people want political leaders to denounce that group of wackos. Then the newsies can play on this emotion, claim that political leaders should rush to denounce offensive wacko groups. However, at present, the newsies are highly partisan and want only certain wacko groups denounced.So, sure, the newsies want Trump to do some stupid things so that they can, then, criticize Trump for doing stupid things. E.g., a large fraction of questions from newsies to politicians are intended to have the politician say something stupid that the newsie can, then, use for a headline, eyeballs, and ad revenue. One of the games of the newsies is to pick a wacko group and (A) demand that Trump denounce that group, immediately, strongly, and otherwise (B) claim that Trump is in favor of the wacko group. So, they want (B) to say that Trump favors the wacko stuff, and, thus, get to criticize Trump, or (A) get Trump to single out a group for attacks, maybe violent attacks, during a riot likely violent attacks, get more people killed, and, thus, again get to criticize Trump.Net, the newsies want to criticize Trump and plainly, bluntly, and literally, are willing to see people killed to this end; the newsies are working really hard to incite violence and murder, maybe war, indirectly but still strongly and at times effectively. The newsies are ugly, blood thirsty dirt bags.Now we already have politicians, newsies claiming that Trump is the leader of one or more of the wacko groups — no he’s not. That claim is a total lie.It’s newsie lies, made-up, cooked-up, stirred-up, faked-up, gang-up, pile-on propaganda, heavily led, still, by the NYT for Hillary, the Democrats, with ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Politico, The Hill, and more, heavily in NYC, using “If you tell a lie often enough, then people will believe it and even you will come to believe it.”, or some such, from Goebbels. It’s not news; it’s just propaganda.Why?(1) Maybe 90% of the newsies are highly partisan Democrats. NYC is, and the newsies are heavily from or follow NYC.(2) The newsies part of the big pile-on expected Hillary to win, predicted that, laughed at Trump from the day he announced 2+ years ago, were badly wrong all the way to 11/8/2016, and are embarrassed, angry, and vindictive.(3) The newsies like the fake content and gang-up and pile-on because it (A) has created an audience that believes this propaganda and will pay attention to more of it, especially in NYC, SF, and DC, and (B) gives more clicks and ad revenue.(4) Apparently as in a recent statement of Sharyl Attkisson, nearly everything from the newsies is paid for by rich special interests who want to influence opinions; so the newsies are not objective.Apparently one of the special interests is the global warming crowd that has been getting, supposedly, about $1.5 trillion a year, as in”Delingpole: ‘But Climate Change…’ Wails EPA Official In Resignation Letter”as athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…very much want that money to keep flowing, see Trump as stopping that money flow, want to see Trump OUT of office ASAP, long before 2020, and pay big bucks to this end.There is also the open borders crowd with, e.g., Arizona Senator Jeff Flake who recently wrote about how much immigrants helped his life, right, much like how some immigrants helped the life of Scarlett O’Hara before the war. Flake wants a return to the Old South and is risking another civil war.There are the free trade people who want cheap products to sell, products that hurt the US balance of trade and put US workers out of work and on welfare.There are lots of people with projects that just need a few billion or hundreds of billions of dollars of Federal support, e.g., high speed rail.There are some medical insurance companies who want some Federal subsidies.And maybe more.They all hate Trump and apparently are willing to cough up big enough bucks to the newsies to have them push Goebbels-style propaganda to try to drive Trump from office.So, I try to avoid the newsies.If I want general news, I can go to, say, the French site AFP! If I want to know what Trump has said, then I can look at his Twitter posts and speeches on YouTube. If I want opinions, then I can listen to Newt Gingrich, Ann Coulter, or Laura Ingraham. I can’t listen to Monica Crowley — she’s far too pretty!!!!Notice that here in the US, I listen ONLY to particular people who hold office or who have credibility from a track record and NEVER listen to US news organizations. I have not turned on a TV in years.US news organizations, all of you “are dead to me”!For the riots last weekend, I defer to Ms. Ann Coulter as athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…Brilliant.

    3. JamesHRH

      I changed my mind, this is close enough to what I think is going on.However, what to do?

    4. SubstrateUndertow

      Agree with the sentiment!Not to excuse these chowder-heads but poor distribution of wealth, power, education, control and opportunity is a powerful strange-attractor that sets in motion the devil’s handy work of anger/resentment/violence.We should not be our brother’s keeper solely for moral reason but for the more fundamental/practical reason that it turns out to be the cheapest way to truncate democratic radioactive decay.

    5. Twain Twain

      @SubstrateUndertow:disqus @jameshrh:disqus @sigmaalgebra:disqus @SaltShaker1:disqus @philipsugar:disqus @le_on_avc:disqus @JLM:disqus @ccrystle:disqus @ShanaC:disqus @SixgillBlog:disqus @lawrencebrass:disqus @mlbar:disqus @brooklynrob:disqus @kidmercury:disqus @panterosa:disqus @pointsandfigures:disqus @InformationShield:disqus @falicon:disqus — The first-ever psychological study on the Alt-Right:https://www.vox.com/science

      1. LE

        It’s interesting but quite frankly full of holes.Just take this at the start:There was a time when psychologists feared that “social desirability bias” — people unwilling to admit they’re prejudiced, for fear of being shamed— would prevent people from answering such questions about prejudice truthfully. But this survey shows people will readily admit to believing all sorts of vile things. And researchers don’t need to use implicit or subliminal measures to suss it all out.(My emphasis)Which is followed immediately by this:In April, Forscher and Kteily got a sample of 447 self identified alt-righters in an online survey on Amazon’s Mechanical Turk (an online marketplace for gathering study participants and people for quick paid tasks) and led them through a barrage of psychological survey questionsSo we have people paid on Amazon who, quite frankly, we don’t even know that they aren’t just yanking chains here and giving what the researchers want to hear. Or exaggerating their answers in some way.Who needs a survey anyway? The group definitely passes the ‘duck test’ and therefore I am not sure what a survey done like this really proves that we wouldn’t already know other than to gain attention for the surveyors. The only thing that matters is how many people are like this and to what degree they are like this.Also at least one of the methods is (in addition to be offensive) is highly priming obviously and ironically with the target group. See graphic attached. https://uploads.disquscdn.c

        1. Twain Twain

          Priming and confirmation bias are serious problems in surveys. It also happened in the OCEAN psychology research that James Damore cited wrt “neuroticism”. Imagine if the scale was defined as “thoughtful” instead.Likewise with this dehumanization scale, imagine if instead it was “Whose birthday would you celebrate the most?”How questions are framed matters.

  8. Jason T

    I would love to think this is the beginning of the end for Trump. But I know better. I thought it was the beginning of the end when he mocked John McCain saying that hero’s don’t get captured. Or when he mocked a disabled reporter. Or what he said about Carly Fiorina. Or when he asked people to beat up protesters at his rallies.So no, I don’t believe it. I don’t think his current behavior is all that much different than what he’s already done. He’ll stay in power and be divisive and ineffective as always. And he just might get re-elected. Because the 50% of Americans gat voted for him will do it again.We’re just taking to ourselves.

    1. JamesHRH

      I strongly suggest you read Rolling Stone’s takedown of McCain. You will never listen to a word he says after doing so: http://www.rollingstone.com

      1. sigmaalgebra

        No, no, no, the accusation that McCain sank that aircraft carrier is wrong. Yes, he came close, but he didn’t actually sink it!

    2. sigmaalgebra

      > mocked John McCain saying that hero’s don’t get captured.No, you are 100% totally wrong. He said that being captured is not sufficient to be a hero, and that is correct.And that was part of a big pissing match with McCain that started a few days before when Trump gave a rally in Phoenix and then quickly in his Senate office to a reporter McCain said that Trump had “fired up the crazies”. Look, McCain really HATES Trump.

  9. jason wright

    if Trump goes away they don’t go away (and neither does the mass media, which means that if Trump does go away the supremacists will also seem to go away, but they will still be there, but not seen or heard, which will be polite ‘liberal window dressing’). they were around before Trump identified them as a voting constituency to target. they’ve always been around, but not always and only around race. religious supremacy came before racial supremacy.

    1. sigmaalgebra

      Trump has had NOTHING to do with the “supremacists”. There is no evidence he has, and all there is are screaming, hysterical, wild accusations in vile propaganda.

  10. Tom Labus

    If you’re a member of this cabinet, at what point do you resign? Dante working overtime creating a new circle of hell for this guy/crew.

    1. Lawrence Brass

      It is not Dante, its himself.He strikes me as someone with the best intentions who is just dumb and unqualified. Today is the ultras, last week was nuclear war, tomorrow who knows.I feel so sorry for the good people in the USA suffering him.Fix your electoral system, it is broken!

      1. sigmaalgebra

        The electoral system is terrific, really brilliant! It’s “robust” to errors and fraud!

    2. JamesHRH

      That’s both naive and 1 dimensional.Let’s use Gen. Kelly as an example, but it applies to all Cabinet or Admin members.Kelly is 67. he is in a position to have a massive impact, mostly positive, on the country he has served, nobly , his entire adult lifeI would be wildly disappointed if he did not stick to the fight from the position where he can have the most impact.When he resigns, he’s powerless.

      1. JLM

        .Gen Kelly is an Irishman and a Marine — the two classes of people who NEVER run from a fight.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  11. JMorphy88

    I’m not sure which press conference you people were watching. Trump denounced them. He also denounced the violent Left-wing agitators who, if you’ve been paying attention, have racked up quite an impressive streak of destruction, far more than the “alt-right” has. There’s plenty of blame to go around, he’s not wrong.

    1. Pointsandfigures

      In my opinion, he should have denounced the supremacists singly. He could have had a second statement at a different time denouncing the Antifa. Politics is about optics, and Trump whiffed.

      1. kidmercury

        old school politics is about optics. new school politics is about telling it like one sees it and telling those who disagree that they can basically f off. i prefer a milder approach from politicians myself, but i don’t think trump whiffed; on the contrary, he got at least an extra base hit.

        1. JamesHRH

          Nope, he gassed it. At some point, he need to take it to the next level and school the optics people at their own game.That shows your supporters you are impregnable and brings on the fence voters into the tent.It never hurts you to get better.You were killing it today Kid. Great stuff.

  12. Pointsandfigures

    No excuse for white supremacists ever. No excuse for violent mobs on the extreme left either. Both are abhorrent to me.

    1. Hiyito Patada

      Shouldn’t we all be disgusted by Soviet flag waving, “ironic” People’s Republic and CCCP attire, hammer and sicle imagery, etc., as much as we are Nazi swasticas and the KKK? Likewise anyone who applauded Chavez and Maduro? All are repugnant.

  13. Jeremy Robinson

    When you have giant holes in the ethical system that’s supposed to guide you as a person and you become a leader, those holes get even bigger. These leaders’ ethical lapses and corruption are negatively contagious to our society. Are there enough of us who care about this level of corruption to bring him down? The recent New Yorker has a good article documenting the form of bank fraud which Trump and his cronies- including Putin- appear to be practicing. Its called self-dealing and is considered bank fraud internationally. However, documenting this level of self-dealing through all the various holding companies and relationships requires persistence and a patient commitment to the importance of integrity in getting things right. Do we as a nation care about integrity and ethics at this point in our history? This is what worries me. Do we have the grit to investigate with integrity so that we can get rid of these fleas? This is the true “Plague” that Camus predicted when he wrote his beautiful novel of the same name years ago. He might have been thinking about the Third Reich when he wrote it but history has a way of repeating itself.

    1. Anne Libby

      I have been thinking about *La Peste* ever since I saw on twitter that the plague has reappeared in the American southwest. Maybe time to re-read.

      1. Jeremy Robinson

        I always find myself very aligned with the way you see things, Anne. Not exactly summer reading but I think it’s a great novel and Camus’ best piece of writing.

        1. Anne Libby

          Likewise! I haven’t read this since college — adding to the list.

      2. sigmaalgebra

        Yup, and TB, measles, HIV, etc.With some irony, there Fred was right: Get close to dirty dogs and will get their fleas.We’ve done really well in the US getting rid of such diseases, but the open borders immigration crowd would take us back 100 years and kill a lot of current US citizens. Ah, the joys of political correctness!!!!

      3. ShanaC

        wait, the plague is back, do we have a vaccine for it?

        1. Anne Libby

          According to a friend of mine, it’s apparently treatable if caught soon enough. #notanexpert

    2. JamesHRH

      Name a Dem or Rep that makes you think: that person has both integrity and was really effective?No one comes to mind.

      1. Jeremy Robinson

        Not sure your point is entirely true but as they say in the Princess Bride, it’s mostly true – enough to give most Americans a sense of cynicism about leadership. We definitely do have a integrity leadership void. How to address and solve it…..? Ah, there’s the rub.

      2. JLM

        .Dwight David Eisenhower — who was actually born David Dwight Eisenhower — who kept the US out of war for 8 years and who balanced 8 budgets while initiating the Interstate Highway system, building the American nuclear arsenal, and warning us of the military-industrial complex.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    3. sigmaalgebra

      Where’d you get the evidence for the “holes”?Let me guess: NYT-Democrat, Hillary propaganda, gossip, wild accusations, no evidence.

      1. Jeremy Robinson

        Please be mindful of your contemptuous tone. I was speaking of sociopathy. People without ethical systems, both Clinton and Trump. Trump is however the more glaring example; few would disagree with that.

        1. sigmaalgebra

          I would strongly disagree with that. Trump’s record back way before his run for POTUS has him with a very good and strong ethical system. E.g., in NYC he has lots of high honors for what have to be based on a high ethical system.You gave no evidence that Trump has been unethical.You have been lead around by the nose, manipulated, by the propaganda, e.g., to believe something from just bitter gossip, outrageous accusations, etc., without good evidence.

        2. JamesHRH

          Thought about this during the day.Excellent comments.

  14. Dan Epstein

    The Vice news on Charlottesville (my home) is worth watching. Warning: graphic violence. https://youtu.be/P54sP0Nlngg

    1. ShanaC

      I saw. I actually thought it wasn’t so “anti-right” mostly because they embedded someone on the alt-right and let them speak for themselves.

      1. Dan Epstein

        I think that’s accurate. People in their own words.

    2. SubstrateUndertow

      Check out the guy at 45 seconds in ;-)His thought bubble would say”Oh…oh… maybe it is not such a good idea to be seen on camera like this”

  15. johnmccarthy


  16. Rob Underwood

    When I was very young, from ages 2-4 (1974-1976), I lived in Meriden Connecticut. Our neighborhood was majority people of color and most of my friends were black.At the time time there was klan activity in Connecticut, especially right around Meriden. Though I was just a small child, the threats of marches I remember clearly and the fear it caused in my friends and their family. It was horrible. And it’s what’s animated 40 years later the work I do in schools in Brooklyn.30 years prior to Meriden my maternal grandfather spent the war years cracking Enigma codes; my paternal grandfather navigated using the stars in the Pacific to fight the fascism that had found root in a country that would be where I met my wife.I am very disappointed in the weakness of the Republicans in repudiating this. Nicole Wallace properly called them out today on Morning Joe for doing nothing more that exercising in faux outrage on Twitter, which appears all the Republican, even “good guys” like Ben Sasse, can muster. They too have benefited from this arrangement and they continue to put party above country.Finally, we need to think a lot about more about social media, especially Twitter, and its use in our discourse. It’s not going away and I recognize our host/my friend is long on Twitter, but we have a problem with how social media is used for discourse. I think it’s a net negative just now.Anyway, thanks Fred for speaking out.

    1. JamesHRH

      Twitter reflects the discourse.The tool is not the problem, how people use it (to make themselves feel better, not to learn or convince others) is the problem.

      1. Rob Underwood

        I think anonymity is a big problem and have said so before. I know our host disagrees but anonymity in twitter, 4chan, etc let’s people put opinions forward they would not want their families, friends, and community aware they hold.Look as well at the tenor and tone of the comments here today between those who use full names and who use pseudonyms to hide their real life identify. Newspapers don’t accept anonymous letters to the editor for a good reason.

        1. JamesHRH

          Maybe, there is a lot of labelling, intentionally one dimensional arguing and just emotive noise from named accounts.Jon Lovitz got retweeted into my feed yesterday stating he supports banning supremacists. That’s embarrassing.Hell, Mitt Romney’s tweet on ‘no moral equivalency’ between supremacists and anti-protesters shows a complete lack of understanding of free speech and democracy.Most anonymous accounts are more tricky than offensive, trying to be cute.I think it doesn’t help but I am not sure it hurts as much as the overall poor level of discussion being driven by identity, shaming and popularity.

    2. sigmaalgebra

      You’ve been had. It’s a manipulation: Try to trick Trump into denouncing, on a long list, denouncing, creating divisions, causing fights, really inciting violence. It’s just a standard trick that a lot of people will fall for.

      1. Rob Underwood

        I am very aware that all of this is a distraction and likely strengthens his supporters, including those who are nazis. But renounce it we must.

        1. JLM

          .How many Nazis do you figure we have in the US?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

        2. sigmaalgebra

          No in the heat of a riot with already one person killed, not even Nazis. Later, okay, and Trump did that.Apparently some blood thirsty newsie propaganda got you to assume, implicitly, that Trump should denounce, renounce, ASAP quickly, strongly any really offensive group.NOT in the heat of a riot.And, just a little thing; I know it’s small; has to do with innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, guilty of crimes already in the law books. Then I ask you, is being a Nazi a crime in the US? My guess is it’s not. Or, are Nazis so bad that we condemn then, denounce them, so that in a riot other people will rush to kill them? So, we will toss our Constitution and have mob instant justice in the streets?I’d bet that some good CBS reporters and camera crews could do five minutes to raise enough bitter emotions about Nazis that they would be seen as in open season on the streets.

          1. Rob Underwood

            DJT: “You also had some very fine people on both sides”.Who were the “very fine people” on the side marching with torches yelling “Blood and Soil”?It was two days later when DJT said there were “very fine people” on the Nazi/White Supremacist side. Can you point me to one of the “very fine people” marching? (And, for this, I’ll assume that at least some of the “very fine people”, on the other side, among the counter-protesters where the many clergy who were marching against the Nazis)Jake Tapper via Umair Haque put it well here, https://twitter.com/umairh/

          2. sigmaalgebra

            The “very fine people”? You want, what, like names, maybe photos, phone numbers? Well, it just so happens that you are in luck! There was Sandra, 18, blond, majoring in French literature, and drop dead gorgeous. And I saw Susan there, Sandra’s younger sister and two steps even prettier! For the phone numbers, well, not in public!!!!Uh, sometimes Trump likes to be nice, to sprinkle sugar, in this case to, GD-it, calm people the F-down!!Sure, all that’s way to hard for Dr. Krauthammer, Romney, Rubio, the MSM, etc. to see.I’ve spent way too much of the last two days trying to write that Trump was trying to calm people down and stop the killing and that denouncing, renouncing, blaming, naming, etc. would have been big league STUPID, just the way the nasty newsies wanted to create a riot they could cover. There’s an old James Bond movie about newsies creating disasters so that they can cover it and get headlines, eyeballs, and ad revenue. The movie started with the main newsie glad there were bugs in the software “users will be upgrading for years”. Hmm, could some software vendor actually do that deliberately? Hmm. Then for the create or incite, encourage a disaster to cover it, I didn’t suspect that it could be true until the last two days.Here’s some of why I look at Breitbart, Ann Coulter, as in herAnn Coulter, “When Liberals Club People, It’s with Love in Their Hearts,”, 16 Aug 2017, Breitbart,athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…Nothing short of brilliant.

          3. JamesHRH

            I am no t sure what irks me about that clip. But something doesn’t sit right.It may be the way Jake speeds through the important traditional items on free speech, in order to hammer on the President’s clear mistake.It should be resonating more, but it isn’t.

  17. Our Man In NYC

    I wish you were right but politics had become like sport — people largely vote shirt colour/party first, then candidate…This is especially true in a two-party system where there is no nuance or context and ‘better’ to paint the opposition candidates as crazy/socialist/fascist because it’s a zero-sum game. Makes it a lot harder when that description is accurate since the politicians have all cried wolf so many times….

  18. Anne Libby

    I have been thinking about my dad’s cousin, who died a few years ago. He was a gentle man, a doctor who was a surgeon at Normandy. (And a southerner.) His story isn’t mine to tell here.Most of us have people like this in our family trees — even if our family members defended freedom and humanity under another flag.We have to do better.

  19. Rob Larson

    It’s an exaggeration to say that Trump made white supremacists the foundation of his base. They are on the fringe. Even if he wanted to, there just aren’t enough of them to elect anyone. Trump’s base is mostly made up of everyday Americans who were fed up with the status quo and willing to take a chance on an outsider who said he could fix things.That said, he didn’t turn surpremacists away either. He needed their votes, and given his current approval ratings, he still does. And it appears they are now emboldened, which is sad to see.I was hoping he would shut that down once he got in office, but so far that doesn’t look to be in the cards.

    1. PhilipSugar

      I agree with your comments and I agree I wish more people would not just view Red and Blue but say we are Purple.

      1. ShanaC

        if it helps, when you poll people on specific policies in non-incendiary language, the US is actually PURPLE

    2. creative group

      Rob Larson :Logic trap!A person who supplies an arsonist with gas and matches can’t continue to deny they don’t support arsonist’s (knowingly selling to an admitted arsonist) Also can’t equate the arsonist with Fire Fighters and say they share in the blame of the fire. Fighters are trying to prevent and stop the fire. The protesters of racism are Fire Fighters of racism. And yes there are protesters of racism with an agenda.This logic trap will fly over the heads of the apologists of racism.

      1. Rob Larson

        I suspect maybe you are responding to an argument I don’t claim and wasn’t trying to make. Or maybe I misunderstand your post.

        1. creative group

          Rob Larson:Overall post should have been general post. Nothing directed at you. Just thought an intelligent response was required. Wouldn’t expect it from the peanut gallery.

      2. JamesHRH

        This is not sound (my major for my Mathematics degree is logic, FYI).There is absolutely a logical gap between ‘ I sell people matches and gasoline & I support arson. ‘Causal connection does not infer moral support. It just shows causal connection.

        1. creative group

          JamesHRH:that background may inhibit you from understanding basic human tools to distinguish and differentiate that isn’t a mathematical theory.We will agree to disagree on your views regarding a misogynistic, xenophobic, prejudiced Trump.UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

          1. JamesHRH

            I am a weird hybrid – hyper socially oriented while being highly analytical. According to what I have read, most successful comics are like me: really interested in analyzing and understanding society.My father was a master criminal defence lawyer. He could read people’s thoughts in court. Its inherited.You have your right to your opinion of Trump. I think he may look the way you see him, but he is really just doing what needs to be done to accomplish what he wants to accomplish.He would need a set of principles to be who you describe. I think he is 100% tactical, without any principles other than Take Care Of Donald.

          2. JLM

            .He is a one dimensional, (add you favorite adjectival descriptors) dumbass who will never get the nomination.Oh, wait. He DID get the nomination.But, he will never win the election.Oh, wait. He DID win the election.Trump re-invented the entire theory of political communication and continues to own the real estate between the media’s ears (and pollsters, pundits).Totally one dimensional.Have you ever built a 100-story building? It is pretty damn complex.The guy is goal oriented as are most successful people.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          3. JamesHRH

            I agree with you more than I agree with myself.Where to build is strategic?How to build is tactical, even if its highly complex, no?My wife was 2iC on a project that had 10,000 people on site at one point. The strategic parts were completed long before the last 9500 folks showed up, or am I wrong?

          4. JLM

            .I have built 50-story buildings. They are very complex to build.A building twice as big is ten times more complex.Before anybody says “Trump is a dummy” answer me this, “Can you build a 100-story building?”JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          5. JamesHRH

            He’s not dumb, he’s hyper tactical.Its a small point and I may be wrong. My Michele builds strategy from the ground up, which is the best way.Perhaps President Trump is the same.Where are you on the ditch Bannon because the commandoes can’t run the castle idea?

          6. JLM

            .Once you have a 4-star Marine General running interference for you, it is pretty hard to accept less.Bannon is gone not because he did anything wrong, but because guys like Mad Dog, McMaster, Kelly are so damn good. He is simply not in their class.Trump’s Cabinet is first rate. Trump’s guys in the WH are not as good. Now, he’s starting to surround himself with better talent.Trump has a unique problem — a royal family surrounding him. It is good and it is bad.Trump is going to wring out this personnel stuff. He is good at that. He went Lewandowski, Manafort, KellyAnne/Bannon and wound up in the White House.Who called those shots? It was DJT.His Cabinet is the best in my lifetime. Gen Kelly will sort the WH out.On policy, the guy is already good.http://themusingsofthebigre…A guy who can build 100-story buildings, who can overcome 16 competitors/the GOPe/the Bushes/HRC/the Clintons/the DEMe/the MSM, the pollsters, the pundits — he’ll be fine.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          7. JamesHRH

            Wish I could find the source for the ” FU General Kelly, nobody runs me ” angle on yesterday’s messed up presser. Would help for credibility and I like to attribute great possible insights.It rings true to who he is, deep down, so it has to be a concern.

          8. JLM

            .Donald J Trump is a Vietnam Era draft dodger, he of the delicate little bone spurs.You have to have lived through that era to understand how sensitive that matter was. A doctor had to submit evidence of your bone spurs to your Draft Board as bone spurs were not a disqualification when you went for your induction physical. Flat feet were. Bone spurs were not.Because of this, the Draft Board was the one who made the determination not to draft you. It was very political. If you arrived with bone spurs at your induction physical, you got drafted. You could only use bone spurs as a get out of jail card if you got to the Draft Board with a civilian doctor.All these Vietnam Era draft dodgers (pussies) are now big tough guys. When they had the chance to be real tough guys, their panties tripped them up. Guys like Cheney, Graham of Texas, Trump, Bush (he flew Tx ANG jets in the NG), and Clinton.Serving in the military was not so hard. All of these guys were just physical cowards. Nothing more.I tell you this because much of Trump’s adulation of the military is compensation for his own sorry record. He is projecting himself onto these genuine guys. Kelly is a genuine bad ass.Trump will not screw with Kelly. Kelly is a brilliant guy who served as the Commandant of the Marine Corps’ legislative liaison to the House of Reps and to the Congress (two different tours).Kelly is going to have that staff organized, sliced, diced, standing at attention in front of his desk, and performing at a wartime level of efficiency. He is a USMC 4-star General and he doesn’t take shit from anybody but Chesty Puller (VMI guy).JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          9. JamesHRH

            My understanding was that Bush 43 did NOT fly ANG in ALA at least ;-)I also think that President Trump’s decades of business hiring makes the bells go off pretty loud when a air tight cat like Kelly is in the room and a candidate.But, jeez, they need to get a Comms Ninja in there and convince him how to beat the MSM at their game. And, while I am not as big a fan of his policies, I think the country needs him to stop getting in street fights and start running the entire neighbourhood, media-wise.

        2. ShanaC

          I’m cracking up really hard at this because I’m engaged to someone with a Ph.D. in math whose specialty area is logic, and is theoretically/pending some organizational issues writing a book on logic and something (and then taught himself cutting edge AI/NLP comp sci… which is what he primarily does now) (also PhD: https://arxiv.org/abs/1305…. ), I know he would say that while in general formal Euclidean logic what you say is true, real world doesn’t look like that – which is why we have 2 crimes, accessory before and accessory after (in much saltier language)BTW, good luck with reading the Ph.D., Topos Theory and Logic is a Brutal, cutting edge area, and apparently, he proved that a bunch of problems were way bigger than previously assumed (and apparently the book has something to do with solving some of the problems? Above my head, hell above most PhD mathematician heads from what I heard from other PhDs)

          1. JamesHRH

            Congrats on your engagement!Would love to try and read it.Just posted that I am an odd hybrid: hyper logical but mostly interested in people. Got it from my father, who you may recall was a legendary CDN criminal defence lawyer and likely the greatest cross examiner of all time (no bias here ;-).Proof of oddness – I took my Math degree and used it to get into law school (Math is known as a great path to just about any graduate school program except law).Of the 4 boys in my family, no one could get any woman except our future spouses to meet Dad socially. They would not come because of his reputation as a human CAT scanner. Lovely guy, crazy skilled. Miss him.Do you have Fred on a 1 politics post a month quota? 😉

    3. sigmaalgebra

      > there just aren’t enough of them to elect anyone> He needed their votesYou’re talking less than 1%.You’ve been taken in by some manipulation that keeps urging Trump to denounce everyone the people who don’t like Trump don’t like. They want to claim, implicitly with no evidence, that it is Trump’s moral obligation to denounce everyone on a very long list. Sure, the people who don’t like Trump would like to see him do that. Then Trump would be saying foolish things and look like an obedient puppy taking orders from the Hillary crowd.The newsies are always trying to get politicians to make stupid statements, even ones that would create a lot of fighting and even deaths.

      1. Rob Larson

        > You’re talking less than 1%.Agreed, it’s most likely a very small number. (at least I hope so)>that it is Trump’s moral obligation to denounce everyone on a very long list.I agree that not everyone needs to be denounced, but you lose me with the white supremacists. They need to be denounced. Humans are tribal, and naturally gravitate to “us vs them” tribes, including racial tribes, unless we have societal leadership (all kinds – not just politicians) showing the error of that way of thinking and showing the better way. We’ve made a lot of progress since the ’60s – let’s not go backwards.

        1. sigmaalgebra

          > you lose me with the white supremacistsYou gave a good answer to your own question, “tribal”. As the ancient Greeks saw, the tribes will try to fight it out on the streets and a better way is at the ballot box.In the high temperature emotions that already had one person dead and 20 more injured, seeing this tribal stuff and its threats, then just do NOT denounce anyone. To denounce then would be dumb de dumb dumb, dumb, stupid, really bad POTUS leadership, essentially an invitation at retaliation, inciting violence, getting more people killed, really, really bad stuff. So, Trump, a bright, highly responsible guy, in his first response, declined to denounce. Excellent. Mount Rushmore excellent. Better than Lincoln excellent.Not even white supremacists deserve to be murdered on the streets because the POTUS denounced them. Uh, remember, we have a legal system; we don’t kill people before they have been convicted in a court of law. Not even white supremacists.And during a riot, we don’t create more hate.So, sure, the newsies, always looking for a politician, especially Trump, to say something really stupid, even if it kills people, tried and tried to get Trump to denounce, denounce right away, denounce strongly. So, sure, the newsies want to raise temperatures, stimulate more violence, get people killed, have more headlines, eyeballs, clicks, and ad revenue, and then, with more people killed, more ways to attack Trump.Well, it didn’t work.If you believed that Trump did something wrong, you just let yourself be lead around by your nose, to be manipulated, by newsies who want your eyeballs and Trump’s head.Don’t let them do that.Uh, the media has a strategy. It’s partly just business for more ad revenue and partly just one sided political.For this strategy, they have a narrative, that Trump should not be POTUS.So, daily, all day, the media push this narrative — big continuing story, lots of daily stories, big lie, big propaganda. There is no substance, no good evidence, just lots of gossip, bitterly negative opinions, outrageous accusations, made-up, …, garbage. If they repeat the lies often enough, play the narrative well and long enough, they hope to get public opinion so against Trump that they can get him out of office just because of the gossip, a consensus to overturn the last election, no serious evidence that Trump did anything seriously wrong. The Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, Iranians, Taliban, etc. would LOVE that!As US citizens, we have to be sure to toss, flush, or burn this toxic trash. Else we can throw our country away.

    4. LE

      Trump’s base is mostly made up of everyday Americans who were fed up with the status quo and willing to take a chance on an outsider who said he could fix things.Additionally voters that didn’t like him but also didn’t like the liberals shoving 100% of their agenda down everyone’s throats as if it was (and this is super important) the only way to think. [1] It was a classic case of ‘pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered’. You see it is possible to cut to good of a deal and it’s not necessarily good to get everything you want or to shove your agenda down the other sides throat.[1] More or less the same thing that has kept the Israeli’s in constant conflict with the Arab world over the years. Pox on both houses but hard to say which house has more blame. Don’t think it actually matters.

      1. Rob Larson

        Great point. (on the US part at least. On the Israeli part, I don’t know enough background to have a valid opinion – every time I try to dip in I just get more confused.)

      2. JLM

        .There was a discernible and formidable anti-HRC vote which ended up in the Trump column.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    5. SubstrateUndertow

      So media-surfing conscious/sub-conscious racist sentiments for political gain is officially not a subtle form of racism ?

      1. Rob Larson

        um, what?

  20. kidmercury

    Unfounded allegations of racism aside, the idea that Trump is losing popularity is very false. The more the fake news nyt and cnn falsely demonize him (instead of legitimately demonizing him) the more his popularity will grow.Nyt didn’t see his victory coming and still don’t understand his support base, which is not motivated by race, but rather authenticity and a kinship with middle American values (which, contrary to the view of many coastal Americans, are not inherently racist)

      1. kidmercury

        first, i don’t accept citations from NYT, CNN, or Fox as valid. all three have an extended history of shoddy, corrupt journalism and should be held in the same regard as any trashy publication — they should be blacklisted by decent people and not linked to.for what it’s worth, trump did appoint ben carson to his cabinet.

        1. BananaTuesday

          Then here. Politico, supported by FBI investigation: http://www.politico.com/blo…Point being that one cannot simply ignore mountains of evidence simply because Tr**p has not publicly stated: ‘I am racist’.

          1. kidmercury

            sure, now we’re getting somewhere productive. that definitely doesnt make him look good, though his firm didn’t admit to wrongdoing and says they did not rent to welfare cases. perhaps there is misinterpretation of the policy? also, is the allegation that he is racist against blacks, or all non whites?

          2. JamesHRH

            Anything within the last 40 years?Also, his Pops ran the apartments as a racist economic enterprise, undoubtedly. It was lazy and wrong not to judge renters individually.As a point of distinction, there is no where on record where either Fred Sr. or Donald said or did things that indicated a belief that certain races were inferior, just bad tenants.

          3. BananaTuesday

            So much rhetorical engineering to qualify him as not racist, it’s disgusting…[edit: the ‘disgusting’ comment not directed at you, @JamesHRH. Just a bit of stream-of-consciousness ‘sigh’ on how I feel words, and importantly, actions/inactions are being re-engineered to disguise their real, more nefarious agendas]

          4. JamesHRH

            No, it makes him a narcissistic, cynical opportunist.Big difference.Do better.

        2. johnmccarthy


        3. ShanaC

          So who do you accept and why

    1. falicon

      Respectfully, I’m pretty sure I disagree.But let me ask some follow up questions just to be sure:1. What do you define as “middle American values”?2. What, in the minds of the people, do you think really stands between them and freely living those values?3. What is your definition of racism?…see any connection/commonalities between your answers to these three questions?

      1. kidmercury

        good questions! :)1. middle american values: patriotism, nationalism, limited government, free market ideology, judeo-christian ethos2. people do live those values, but they will naturally object to what they perceive to be excessively lax immigration, over-regulation of markets, and tolerance of belief systems that threaten theirs (radical islam perceived that way)3. i would define racism as anyone who holds a belief like: “All [race] are [adjective]”. a secondary view which i would also regard as racist is “all [race] are better than [other race]”. racism is a way of viewing people based on their racial population rather than at the individual level. while race impacts individuality, it does not define it, and it is a mistake to dismiss or accept people solely based on their race — i would define this as racist.i don’t see a connection between these answers. i see how some might perceive a connection, in arguing that a fondness for nationalism means racism, but i think this is a deeply false equation; i know white and indian people (the two populations i know the most of, so i am citing them here) who dislike illegal immigrants and favor allowing qualified immigrants legally — but they do not discriminate against americans of any race, and in fact enthusiastically welcome those who are here to improve themselves and their community regardless of what race they are. i think you will find this attitude in many small towns/villages, not just in middle america; it is perhaps more aptly described as a small town value.

        1. Rob Underwood

          1. What is “middle America”?2. Where is “middle America”?3. Are the values of “middle America” universally held by all that live there?4. Are the values of “middle America” – wherever and/or whatever it is, in some way inherently more “American” than the values of those who live in, say, urban areas of the coast?Radio host Bill Cunningham said a couple weeks ago that “But the heart and soul of America that beats this great country, and so Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa. This is where real Americans, normal Americans live.” (source: http://abcnews.go.com/Polit…Is there something inherent to, say, Ohio that makes the people there fundamentally more American, more “normal”, than, say, Fred and I, who live in New York City. Are we less American?

          1. kidmercury

            no, you’re not less american, but i trust you understand that this country is deeply divided — and that urbanites are vastly different than their middle american counterparts. i’m not saying one is better than the other; only that they are very different, and that they probably shouldn’t be in the same country anymore. for the record, i lived in nyc for 10 years, miami for 2.5, san francisco for 1, chicago for 4, and now live in the suburbs of indianapolis.

          2. Rob Underwood

            I agree that the country is deeply divided.But I am still not sure what you mean by “middle american” – are you talking about the MIDwest? Middle Class? Both?And how are urbanites vastly different? By “urbanites”, do you mean all people who live in places like NYC? Or most wealthy, left leaning folks who work in industries like finance, media, and tech (what I call the “Affluleft”)?What about my home state of Maine, or northern New England more generally? I saw lots of confederate flags in inland Maine (hope to Joshua Chamberlain no less!) when I visited in July. Or Oregon and Washington? Or Hawai’i? They never seem to fit into the calculus very well.

          3. kidmercury

            i’m reluctant to precisely define middle american because i think the term is somewhat nebulous and will escape a precise definition, but i think the main factor to associate with it is non-urban.by urbanites, i mean essentially all the people in densely packed areas: nyc, sf, chicago, boston, etc. not just the wealthy, but also the students and the poor in those areas.hawaii i agree is its own thing. main is probably middle american, as is lots of new hampshire, vermont. definitely pennsylvania. arizona too. those areas have large swaths of non-urban regions.

          4. Rob Underwood

            Well, Maine is the whitest and oldest (Edit: I mean “most elderly”) state in the union, and also one of the most rural.Respectfully I think you do yourself and your arguments a disservice by not being precise about what you mean by middle America, especially if that means an economic class, a region, or population density.I interact with NYers there are not rich most of my day every day, because 1) I’m not rich and live paycheck to paycheck like most people I know and 2) my kids go to school with families that largely speaking are either middle class or at or around the poverty line. When I compare their hopes, dreams, and fears with those of my family in Maine, Arizona, Ohio, Colorado, and New Hampshire they seem very similar, almost identical. They want the best for their kids, a great education, safe communities, and better tomorrow. I’m just not sure I get what these huge differences are that you allude to, at least between those that are not rich.

          5. JLM

            .Maine was the 23rd State admitted to the Union on 15 March 1820.It was originally part of Massachusetts which was admitted to the Union on 6 February 1788, making it the sixth of the Crown Colonies admitted.It is not clear whether Maine was carved out or thrown out of Massachusetts.Delaware was the first state on 7 December 1787.Alabama and Louisiana were states before Maine.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          6. Rob Underwood

            JLM, Your are not a dumb man. Neither am I.By oldest I meant most elderly and you know that.Any American citizen who would assert Maine to be the “oldest” state in the union, as in order of union admission, should go back to 1st grade. I went 1st grade.

          7. ShanaC

            That I didn’t know.

          8. Rob Underwood

            I bet you did/do know that Maine was not the first state to be admitted to the union and that it had been part of Massachusetts… it’s just the basic civics you learn in 1st and 2nd grade coupled with seeing Delaware license plates; in junior high school you were probably further taught the Missouri Compromise as the context for why/how Maine became its own state. That was the point I was making to JLM — it’s almost inconceivable to think a US citizen who has a pulse and went to school would be so illiterate about civics and US history to assert Maine to be the first state in the union, and hence why my context of what I meant my old should be clear. I could see someone thinking maybe PA, VA, or MA rather than DE, but I don’t think anyone who guess Maine.

          9. ShanaC

            i think it might be because of the facts you are telling are so ingrained

          10. JLM

            .One would never lose money voting against how dumb I am. You were too easy on that one, pal.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          11. kidmercury

            sure, for the sake of discussion, let’s focus on urban vs non-urban. in the urban world, people tend to think differently: there are more jobs, less children, greater diversity, more education, and a greater presence of “leftist” institutions (it is sort of their home court to use a sports analogy). i think these factors contribute greatly to the divide.

          12. ShanaC

            Sort of. I think Maine is awesome, I have a town there where I’m related to most of its jewish community tight outside of Portland (that I should visit, my 4th cousin offered me a good deal on hotel space right on the beach!)But it was part of Massachusetts first and became a state in order to keep the slave/free balance in the union. Maine history! Yankee history!Our history is written in the blood of racism.

          13. Rob Underwood

            Yes, all the more reason that it seems bizarre to see all the confederate flags in Maine now. Again, Maine gave us Joshua Chamberlain.

          14. JLM

            .I think Maine was part of the Confederacy? Wait a second, no they weren’t. Maybe the Stars and Bars means something different up there?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          15. Rob Underwood

            It’s a cultural symbol — as in a symbol of “white pride”/white nationalism that seems to be animating some folks in Maine just as it is other parts of the country. FWIW nearly ever house I saw in Maine that had the stars and bars also had a trump sign too and it was many houses — did a long drive from Belfast to Rangley and I probably saw 20-30 such houses, increasing as I got in land.

          16. JLM

            .”…I probably saw 20-30 such houses [displaying the Confederate flags] …”That is not many in a state of 1.3MM people, is it?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          17. Rob Underwood

            It is in a two hour drive on a very rural road in a very northern state. It wasn’t a census.

          18. ShanaC

            we’re changing, for both good and ill, as a nation

          19. PhilipSugar

            Mmmmm. Delaware is the first and thus oldest state. Maine is 23rd not becoming a state until 1820: https://simple.wikipedia.or…It also is not the whitest state.I think you really have to broadly define it as:Wealthy urban and suburban.Blue collar countryPoor countryPoor urbanThere have been coalitions forever.Do a very small percentage of poor country people turn to hate groups because they are scared and disaffected? Yup.Do a very small percentage of urban poor turn groups like BLM into excuses to riot, start fires, and throw rocks? Yup.Both are not acceptable. Not acceptable at all.What I think people didn’t realize is that the blue collar country group thinks they have been overlooked and marginalized by the Democratic Party. The Paris Treaty? Who has business operations in China? I do. Think they are going to abide by that or continue to take jobs. I’ll give you a clue. You can’t see the sun in Shanghai.Look at China. I’ve been going there since 1990. They have built a middle class. We have been destroying ours. I live in the country and I know. They are pissed. What people don’t understand is that even though Trump is rich they identify with him. Openly hating him is hating them. Respectfully disagreeing is ok.I have bee hives. You can just walk around them no problem they just work. Kick them and they are coming to kick your ass. People kicked and continue to kick the beehives.Posts like this and getting people riled up do one thing. They do not change a single person to your view, they just kick the beehive.Was I enraged to see swastikas? Shocked, stunned, disgusted.Do I think people should be tearing down statues? No.Was I enraged when I saw the Berkley riots when they didn’t want Milos to speak? Yes.

          20. Rob Underwood

            Let me say it again — by “oldest” I meant “most elderly” not first in the union.And here is my source of Maine being the whitest state in the union: http://abcnews.go.com/US/st… … even with the Sudanese and Somanli immigration it is still a very white state.

          21. falicon


          22. JamesHRH


          23. JamesHRH

            The wealth that is concentrated on the coasts was created through the labour or purchases of people in the states in flyover country.Will it play in Des Moines?

        2. falicon

          By your thoughts and definitions, I agree with you more than I did prior to your explanation…and I seriously applaud the ideal of “improve themselves and their community” (though, again, it depends on everyone’s definition of “improve” and how they want it accomplished)However – where I still disagree is that, in my personal experience, the root of much of the divide we seem to have right now sits with a combination of1. A sense of entitlement (because “born here”, which really is only a slightly different take on “born male” and “born white” when you think about it).2. A sense of “the way it always has been”. Many people seem to think jobs, the country, the political climate, and the world as a whole should remain just as it was for their parents and the previous generations.3. A sense of “us vs. them”. Rather than face the realities of #2 above, they seem to falsely conclude that they are losing jobs to “them”, the country to “them”, the political party to “them”, and in fact the world to “them”. (them being whatever group/generality that a given person decides to attach the blame too).It may not be a ‘textbook’ definition of racism, but to me it sure does feel like that’s what sits at the root of much of it.* SIDE NOTE: I recently read “Everybody Lies”. It has some really interesting data and takes on much of the “reality” of our thinking as a society (and yes, it’s shocking/scary) [ https://www.amazon.com/Ever… ]

          1. kidmercury

            i think one key difference in perspective is that the middle american crowd may be more inclined to view their nation like their family, while urbanites are less likely to share this view. my kids are entitled to our house and belongings, even though they didn’t earn anything. in the same way those who are here might have a sense of entitlement to those who are not yet here. related to this is the issue of taxation; if i am paying for government services, i expect those services to be issued to me and others who are paying for it first. i dislike the idea of viewing a nation-state government as akin to a parent, but in a world of high taxes and considerable social services, i think it is a natural by-product.

          2. falicon

            As we’ve talked about before – taxation (and how the economy really works as a whole) is absolutely a huge, and very misunderstood, issue.Everyone feels like they have ‘high taxes’, but the reality is that we do not all pay ‘equal’ taxes even though we do have ‘equal’ votes.In my view, the very ‘urbanites’ you mentioned tend to be footing way more of the actual bill…and yet also tend to be the ones pushing for more “let’s take care of everyone”…while the ‘middle american crowd’ seem to be paying a lot less, and yet pushing much harder to “keep more” for themselves.In an ideal world, technology, the knowledge economy, and much of what Albert writes about ( continuations.com ) will address and alleviate this divide…but I think you and I both agree, it’s a bumpy road (with many many possible wrong turns) between here and there…

          3. kidmercury

            i don’t dispute that the urbanites pay more relatively, but we are all paying too much and receiving too much, in my opinion — or at least we are all paying/receiving enough where we expect things like unemployment and welfare, and thus expect the state to take care of us and expect that we have a right to such care by virtue of citizenship.

          4. falicon

            We often come at topics from different sides…but on this, we almost always agree. 🙂

          5. JamesHRH

            Prejudice is about holding views.Racism is the systemic application of prejudice. Big difference.

    2. Nik Bonaddio

      His approval ratings:https://projects.fivethirty…Considering his approval ratings are literally the lowest they’ve ever been, I think it’s fair to say that he’s losing popularity. Unless polling is fake news in your mind, that is.

      1. kidmercury

        you are citing new york times, which is not accepted as a reputable source. you might as well be citing a random person’s opinion — at least that is more likely to be honest rather than deceptive.

        1. kaughjs

          disingenuous at best, ignorant at worst. the link leads to an aggregate of polls that contain the highest regarded polls. trumps favorite rasmussen is even there. go back to 4chan kiddo

        2. markslater

          rasmusen is his favorite poll.

        3. ShanaC

          Since when is that true about the nytimes?

          1. kidmercury

            not sure what you are referring to

        4. ShanaC

          Also, polling is largely a methodology system based on math. Who the sponsor is may not matter if the quality is good.

          1. kidmercury

            polling relies largely on sampling, the sample must be independent and identically distributed to the population it is representing. therein lies the power of the sponsor and its ability to influence.

      2. Hiyito Patada

        He had low approval ratings in November, too. If Democrats are going to play the “we’re not him” card again, that shows me they’ve leaned nothing from November 2016… and still don’t have a message or a practical vision for the next generation, that does not involve economic and technological denial.And can we stop with the polling fetish? Like the land line phones the pollsters rely on, it’s an old way of taking the pulse. Again, November ’16 proved that.

      3. sigmaalgebra

        Naw! A few days ago, from maybe pushing back against Dung Dong Un, Trump got a 5 point boost in the polls. Now apparently from last weekend, he lost that.Ah, the poll figures are just from the latest emotions from the latest grabbing headlines.Trump is doing good stuff. As he gets more stuff done, his poll numbers will rise. Really, sadly for polling, better measures are his Twitter followers, the fact that he can quickly pack any building with thousands more outside for a rally, etc.There’s a rapidly flowing ocean of propaganda against Trump: Don’t believe it.

    3. PhilipSugar

      I agree with the comment that the more elites demonize Trump, the more energized his base becomes. It boggles my head that smart people don’t get this.Saying he is a racist because he didn’t come out fast enough and condemn? That’s a pretty hard stretch. Maybe didn’t care, maybe not as important as it should be. Calling his support base racist or deplorables? Energizes because they know they are not but you view them that way.

      1. DJL

        Let’s just remember how quickly Obama came to the table to blame white people and cops in every one of these instances. But he was never once accused by the media of being racist.Everyone except for true Liberals sees right through this. Yawn.

        1. JamesHRH

          Identity politics are a scourge.Think it through more.

        2. CJ

          And he was right. I blame white people now. You control this country. This is your failure.Nazis in the street are the fault of white people being apathetic to racism and discrimination. Their misplaced blame on their economic and perceived social situations. And their fragile egos.I hope that was clear enough about where I stand on this issue.

          1. LE

            Nazis in the street are the fault of white people being apathetic to racism and discrimination.When I was growing up the issue (long time ago) was Nazis marching in Skokie where the ACLU defended their right to do so.https://www.aclu.org/other/…My father was a holocaust (camp) survivor as well and lost most of his family in the camps. As in actual death in large numbers as you know.We didn’t take any particular issue with the ACLU defense at the time as I recall since it seemed that it was a necessary evil (if you want to call it that) in order to advance the rights of all people. That is the system that we have. Same reason we have judges and juries and a process and defense attorneys who hold the system accountable even for defendants that are truly evil and are caught red handed.My point is it’s not all apathy and ignorance as you are suggesting not that that isn’t happening separately.

          2. PhilipSugar

            I’m sorry we usually agree. I do not blame black people for the fact that if I go certain places in Wilmington, DE I will get shot because of misplaced blame on their economic and perceived social situation.No assholes are assholes. Good people are good people. Color doesn’t matter.Do I hate these people think marching like they did is right? To the bone. But am I to blame? No. I don’t know you but do I blame you for Wilmington, DE which just the same as those assholes is self inflicted? No.

          3. CJ

            You’re right @philipsugar:disqus we do typically agree and we disagree here. But a bit of broadening first. I don’t think that ALL white people are to blame, I don’t paint with that broad a brush.I do, however, think that white society is to blame. White society is what has allowed latent racism to fester in this country. It’s what has allowed for the circumstances to exist that give rise to the abject poverty in the ghettos of this country which would cause you to be shot in DE.Instead of admitting that racism is an American problem and working to fix it as Americans, racism has been allowed to become a black problem by the silence of white society. As the minority, there is nothing we can do about fixing it. We can’t make you make society more fair absent a revolution.So when I paint with the white society brush, know that I mean the constructs, the institutions, but also any person who laughs uncomfortably at a racist joke instead of calling out their friend, colleague or family member. Anyone who stands silent instead of speaking up is to blame for this situation. Racism thrives in the dark, words and actions bring it out into the light.That’s white society’s failure and burden IMO and that’s what I mean when I say white people are responsible.

          4. PhilipSugar

            I don’t want to see black and white, I want to see gray. I don’t want to see red and blue I want to see purple.I do not think racism is solely to blame for the situation in Wilmington, DE. I think it is a part, but people that live there have to take a damn hard look in the mirror as well.I know. I volunteer and work there.When we try to blame others for our problems it makes them linger.I can say it is the fault of American society that I am too fat. Too much processed foods, too much portions when I go out to eat (I travel 100 nights a year) But I need to look in the mirror as well.

          5. CJ

            I don’t want to see black and white, I want to see gray. I don’t want to see red and blue I want to see purple.Me either but ignoring it doesn’t get us to this point. Speaking up about it will. I don’t think racism is the sole reason for anything in this society, but discrimination is the largest issue in our society. One that we never put productive discussion and action into because it’s a hard topic, it requires hard conversations and hard acknowledgements.It’s hard for the majority to think that they could be the problem even without being racist. That’s the biggest first impediment. And Trump feeling totally fine to equivocate Nazis with BLM is a symptom of that problem. Our society, a significant portion at least, thinks that an organization that agitates for equality is the same is one that agitates for discrimination and worse. That’s because of a lack of productive conversation and productive action. That’s because neighbors aren’t telling neighbors that certain behaviors aren’t acceptable.And honestly, it is the fault of American society that you’re fat. The organizations that provide dietary advice and standards in the USA settled on fat and cholesterol being the issue that caused heart disease. They published their findings and sugar replaced fat in food and gave rise to processed food recommendations and the completely wrong food pyramid. Everyone adopted this bad advice and now we have a diabetic epidemic.So yeah, not entirely society’s fault but 80/20. Contrast us with citizens in first world countries elsewhere. We’re fat and they aren’t – generally speaking. That doesn’t happen by individual, that’s systemic. Not just the fault of society, but society plays a big part.

          6. PhilipSugar

            I hope some day we sit down and talk. I am sure we will have a most enjoyable discussion.I really mean that.I think we both could have a good discussion on our point of views.

          7. CJ

            Absolutely. We should make that happen. I don’t travel as much as I used to, probably a few times a year vs the 100 days you mentioned before, but if we’re ever in close proximity I’d love to have that conversation.

          8. JamesHRH

            Great post.How does it help to focus on white people being the problem?Isn’t the problem the problem?

          9. CJ

            The first step is admitting that there is a problem. White society is only now and only partially starting to admit that there is, in fact, a problem with race in this country and that yes, they are, in large part to blame. EVEN IF they aren’t racist themselves.See that’s the key @jameshrh:disqus, I’m not calling all white people or even most white people racist, I’m saying that they don’t have to be in order to perpetuate the problem by silence and inaction.The first step in fixing this is acknowledging that, as a white person, you participate in and benefit from a society that is racist. And maybe I should try to speak up for the people who are marginalized with a voice that society will listen to because it’s privileged.

          10. JamesHRH

            America is the least repressive society known to history, despite its myriad historical issues, of which slavery and the fracturing of African families that were brought to NA as property top the list.Treatment of Native Americans would run a close second.30 years ago, I became great friends with someone who grew up in Brooklyn, from a proud and politically active Caribbean family. His philosophy then was ‘ There are only two kinds of people, a$$holes and not a$$holes. ‘ Sorry Shana, direct quote.He seems to be where you are now, worried about the society his sons will live in and unsure of the full impact of being Black in America will have on them.He pretty much thinks Trump is the devil and rationale discourse just frustrates him. He must have experiences that I don’t appreciate and he cannot provide broad evidence for the racism and fear he perceives, but it’s real.I think America has made 3 mistakes in he last generation: 1) Dems sold out average Americans to cash in bigly w globalists on Wall St & the private sector ( looking at you, Bill, Hills & Barack ); 2) policing went from policing to para-military patrolling 3) identity politics & tech have driven people into isolated echo chamber camps.There are lots of other failures. And tons of amazing successes.But communities that failed to prosper in that period, it seems, had internal structural issues more than external restraints. Native culture and African American culture seemed to struggle the most. Hispanic, Asian, even middle Eastern cultures seem to be doing better.If ‘White Society ‘ – again whatever that is – is too blame, why the disparity?And finally, ‘ White Society ‘- however you define it – is not a monolith and history reveals that to be so. English immigrants to the US were prejudiced against Irish, then everybody got after everybody else: Italians, or Jews, them Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Serbs & Crostians can struggle…..Hell, Swedes and Finns even.I believe you when the you say the pain and fear is real. The logic that it is White Society’s fault, mostly or solely, just doesn’t seem to hangi together.

          11. CJ

            So, I’m just going to keep it real here. Black people are different from other immigrants because those immigrants always have the benefit of being better than us in the eyes of the majority. They also share a common skin color with the majority in a lot of cases. They also made the CHOICE to come here and once here have a support system of people who have set up ethnic neighborhoods and, because of the common language bond, common marketplaces. This allows those cultures to flourish and once they have economic power, then they have power.In America, we’ve been frustrated every step of the way. We’re an inconvenient reminder of America’s horrific past. Those who aren’t racist would rather not think or speak of racism and those who are persecute, attack and hate us. That’s the difference. To think that you can compare ethnic immigrants with no history of slavery in this place to black Americans is woefully understating the issue of racism in America.If you want to understand White Society, google Institutional Racism. That’s what we face, whether you want to agree with it or not.But acknowledge this, and it’s going to be hard to deny. Of all the people on this blog making these points from the side of those who have been oppressed in this country, how many are people of color? Do you think it’s an accident that most of the people who would seek out or find a Venture Capital blog aren’t people of color? How do you explain our absence in the highest places in this country both politically and financially?Have you never looked around here and thought, damn I’m the only white guy here today? No, of course not. But I have. Here and other places. It doesn’t bother me much anymore, I’ve grown used to it. It’s just what happens when you’re black and succeed in this country, you find yourself surrounded by less people who look like you or share your culture and more who look like the guy in your profile picture.I bet you’ve never felt that way.

          12. JamesHRH

            CJ, this comment is the reason I am the way I am on this blog.I think your comment is terrific: thoughtful, reasoned and right on the mark. The difference between all immigrant minorities versus the black minority ( and to a lesser extent, due to smaller population, the Native American minority ) IS their specific history.So, now what?The friend I mentioned earlier went to a publicly funded high achievement HS (in Manhattan while living in Brooklyn) and to Georgetown. That’s a good sign.The last President married a woman who is the paragon of achievement in any lower middle class community, but whose personal story should make any American of African descent (especially families who trace themselves to slavery) exceptionally proud (her brother is also an example to follow). That’s also a good sign.President Obama qualifies as a really good sign but is slightly less impactful given his unusual upbringing (he was raised by White Greatest Generation farmers from Kansas in Hawaii and by his single white mother in Indonesia – atypical to say the least).Hollywood tells stories like Hidden Figures now, which my whole family saw and enjoyed. Small things, but change none the less.Black athletes & entertainers are making way more money than ever before and are becoming more active ( Andre Igoudala joined GSW partially to be exposed to the VC industry; LBJ is absolutely thinking about his impact on America after the NBA; one of the NFL Bennetts – caught it out of the corner of my eye yesterday on ESPN – is eloquently outspoken; The Rock and Kevin Hart seem into it, etc.). They have way more opportunity to influence than other great intellect athletes or entertainers like Jim Brown, Richard Pryor or Kareem – just from the security of their multigenerational wealth (and maybe the obligation it adds).You want a villain? How about Michael (I’m About Me) Jordan? Man, Lame.Those are the people that should be reaching out to foster economic growth in black communities and leading the charge on these issues. They should be supporting young black politicians and business people and students and starting funds for black entrepreneurs. That’s how every other immigrant community does it.The rest of us should applaud those efforts.But, identity politics and symbolism aren’t the answer. They foster resentment.I should mention that the hosts on ESPN 97.5 in Houston this AM were having fun with ‘now that the Confederate statues are down, I feel much better’. They roasted ESPN for apologizing for the Fantasy Auction piece as well.It shows a fundamental lack of consideration for others, but it also shows a honest disregard for symbolism (one host is black, FWIW) and an orientation around things ‘that really matter’. (ESPN 97.5 has devoted multiple hours of shockingly thoughtful airtime this week to politics – this AM not being a highlight of that.)That’s where I think the mistake has been made; symbols over substance. Managing how people see what you are doing, focusing only on optics is a poor long term choice.The Klan is not racial either, if you know their history. They are authoritarian, backwards looking morons. Why anyone would knowingly engage with them (other than police), escapes me. They are a bunch of finger pointing, frustrated losers, looking for a fight so that they can feel like they have some control over a world they don’t understand.Duke, Spencer et al fit the mold perfectly and their support is currently Trump’s Achilles Heel.Yes, they are not talking about kicking me out of America (even though I am an immigrant, I fit their mould, Jeez), so its easier for me to disregard them. But, you are smart, disregarding them publicly and watching them carefully from a policing PoV is the right play (@jlm is right about not giving them permits to march, the Mayor of C’ville is totally incompetent).Confronting them is ego driven and just dumb.My assessment of the American situation is that Tip O’Neill was right: most politics is local and through the passage of time, other events and factors come into play and take precedence for people, most of which are pretty ‘small’ – like, can I get a job and raise a family into a good situation.Trump and Bannon are banking on this campaign strategy long term and it is their strongest card: jobs & a government that works better gets him re-elected.Most Americans have no connection to slavery, other than in history books. Most non-urban Americans have little contact with other cultures and don’t know how to engage with them, which is just sad. People are people, but they lack the confidence to believe that, still.The people in those key swing counties that elected Trump, for example – the lightly populated counties with one major center of about 250,000 people. They have gotten hammered in the past 30 years – manufacturing has left and agriculture has become totally mechanized and consolidated.Slavery and the plight of other disenfranchised minorities aren’t on their minds – they are now a disenfranchised minority (with the added kicker that they have expectations of success in America, from their family history).I think it is important to note that the vast majority of those counties voted Obama twice and were seen as ‘ in the bag ‘ by the Clintons, who are the main reason there was an opportunity for Trump to win and are a plague on America.Think if Bush 41 had beaten Slick Willy and they headed back to Little Rock. The Dems would be completely different. America would be completely different and likely better (no Newt Gingrich career, for one).Trump has an agenda but it is not racial. He is a person who thrives on breaking through or beating up the establishment: the Manhattan Real Estate establishment (as a from the borough slum Lord); the entertainment establishment (as an obnoxious, untalented, anti-PC lout – his show was a mainstream hit & he owns it); the ‘inside the Beltway’ political establishment (too long to list).His tactic of baiting the MSM to garner support outside of the highly educated urban centres has been incredibly effective for almost 24 months but it has both moral and effectiveness limits, which he crossed this week, I believe. He might be able to peddle out of it, but it was really a bad mistake. It likely is the end of the line for Bannon (or it is the end of Trump’s Presidency’s effectiveness, we will see which way he goes here).I commend you on your perseverance and intellect. If I can help with your startup ( I have boatloads of experience), let me know.

          13. CJ

            Gotta run, will have to get to this one later.

          14. CJ

            Owed you a response on this one.I agree with the first part of your statement. There are small changes and the Obamas and the Hidden Figures movie are signs that there are some things that are improving.However, I disagree that we should lay the responsibility for fixing this issue at the feet of black people. We don’t have the power here and we can’t make the changes that need to be made in order to have a lasting impact on society. Think about it, if arrive from outer space and read about the Civil Rights era in the 60s and the outcome you would think that racial equality in America has been achieved. Then you would turn on the nightly news and see quite the opposite.Black people owned the issue in the 60s. They fought, were imprisoned, and died for this issue in the 60s and ultimately they won incremental change. They won obvious fixes coupled with institutional(inobvious) discrimination. Society gave us those incremental fixes to preserve the status quo because society had a real chance of falling had it not made some sort of concession. Ultimately society will only act in the interest of preserving society so the only way to defeat institutional racism is to make it in society’s best interest. The only way for that to happen is for society is to acknowledge it’s existence. That’s why it’s not at the feet of black athletes and politicians but rather white society and power structure.Now in terms of identity politics – let’s be real here. The GOP is the king of identity politics. They cater to one demographic – old white people – and they use fear to drive that demographic to the polls as a block. Fear of change(racism), fear of immorality(religion), fear of the inability to maintain upward mobility(finance). The people who vote as a bloc for Democrat, likewise do so because they agree with the platform, but in increasing numbers because they disagree with the GOP platform. I’d never vote Republican. Look at what they stand for! Racism! That’s #1 and even if they don’t ALL stand for that, they’ve not rebuked the President in strong enough terms to prove otherwise. Paul Ryan wouldn’t even call him out specifically on Twitter in his statement. Why would I ever vote for a platform that makes the denigration of people who look like me a central piece of their platform? So no. I’m not voting Democrat because they target my vote because I’m black, I’m voting Democrat because the GOP makes it impossible to ever consider voting for them.Now, lets tie that back in to your comment on Symbols over Substance – which I totally agree with. And having the benefit of two weeks worth of hindsight, I think it’s even more relevant and truthful. Virginia has descended into becoming about statues rather than racism, but I ask you, who writes that narrative? Who has the power over the media? Who chooses what viewpoints are aired and which are silenced? Do you think the ‘black establishment’ whatever that term might mean wants to bring down statues of Washington and Jackson and rename parks that are named after Presidents? NO. But the media plays that angle up so effectively that the original issue of racism is lost in the noise. And THEN you have the people who move against the original message because now they just see black people wanting to destroy the(legitimate) heritage of the country.Again, tying it back, the majority controls society and society controls the narrative. This can’t be a black problem. Even as an athlete there just isn’t enough power there. Look at Kaep. Blackballed from the NFL for a peaceful, quiet, non-disruptive protest that NO ONE would even know about if the media didn’t focus on it incessantly. He did everything that white society has said when they gave us the rules to racial protest. Be Quiet. Be Peaceful. Be Demur. And still can’t get a job. That’s why it can’t be our problem. We can’t own it because we don’t have the power to fix it.Finishing up, thank you for the offer on advising on my startup. I’m not currently working on one though, though I’m working through a few ideas in my head. I will definitely reach out though when that changes as I always enjoy having differing points of view in my advisers, helps to eliminate blindspots.Sorry this reply was so late – life is hectic at the moment(in a good way though – finally!).

          15. JamesHRH

            A little distracted here in Houston. Will get back to this.

          16. CJ

            Crap, didn’t realize that you’re in Houston. Stay safe! Not sure that there’s anything I can do, but if you do need anything just ask.

          17. JamesHRH

            When you take me up on startup advice, I will take you up on hurricane help ;-)We are in a great nieghbourhood, very good infrastructure and not close to a bayou. We have had a shit ton of rain though, to be sure.

          18. JamesHRH

            This will be quick, we have suffered some minor rain damage on the house here in Houston. Would be off volunteering TBH but I am puling wallboard.Here’s what I took form your comment:- media is the probelm- they focus on maximum inflammatory angles- they no longer report, they merely gossip- touchy feely whites are the audience for that garbageAs for Kaep, I honestly believe that he failed to read the Starting QB or Backup QB job descriptions: they include Starter, be 110% about football; Backup, for fuck’s sake, don’t be a distraction.You can’t have everything in life – he only has fame & $30M, so really, he’s not a victim in my books.I am a believer in 3’s – I think Black parents carry 60% of the load on this issue; government should do something to address the stigma or uncomfortable ness in society around black people (30% – I like Scott Adams free tuition for 25 years idea, for example / massive publicly promoted re-education and training of police forces are another); luck (10%).Dan Rather remembers the day that CBS execs realizes that CBS News good be a money maker – the media can’t be fixed. I almost did that for a career and cannot tell you how glad I am not part of the problem.You mentioned raising $ – assumed startup. Stay in touch.

          19. PhilipSugar

            I agree with all of your comments except…..the Klan is a bunch of racists. Fucking racists. Ignorant stupid racists.There are many fewer than people think, but they are still here.I have been asked to join. I tell them I need to go to Mass asshole. I am third on their list.Anybody that is willing to walk with people like that is also a racist. As soon as you see them you need to shun them.I think anybody that brings any weapon including picking up a rock to a demonstration needs to spend some hard time in jail doing physical labor. Cover your face? Same thing. Do both? Double it.

          20. JamesHRH

            Totally agree w special penalties for free speech event violence. Easy to do too.My father told me of evidence he came across of Klan activity in the 1920’s & ’30’s. It involved a high profile person and that person would be someone I would call so conservative as to be regressive.That struck me in when I heard the NPR interview about Klan origins.I have no idea what the current Klan is like and can’t imagine – other than sheer stupidity – what would motivate them to ID you as a prospect.

          21. PhilipSugar

            Nobody can figure me out. I usually drive in an old beat up pickup. I’ll have a ripped up t shirt on. I wrench on my own stuff. I have people ask me if I will work on their stuff. They see me wrenching on the diesel of my boat and think I am the mechanic, not the owner. I have the nicest and biggest house in town which again when I am working on people think I am the hired help. You look at my hands. I have had an investment banker say those aren’t an executive hands…..Made me happy.That is why people don’t understand my perspective, because they don’t live with working people.On Friday I changed the tire of a poor woman’s car as people in the “hood” just watched me, nobody even gave me a hand, She tried to pay me, I told her watch my back. She said everybody else was just standing around, and I was the only person that stopped in 30 minutes.Assholes are assholes.Are there are a very, very small percentage of white people that are complete assholes? Yup. Same for black people. Same for Latino’s, same for Antifa. Assholes.I am an equal opportunity hater.Asshole I hate you. But if you sit there and say, well this one group is an asshole, and I am willing to look over other assholes?No, no, no.

          22. JamesHRH

            I felt that way, but only powerfully once.35 years ago a Caucasian buddy and I walked down Yonge St in Toronto during Caribana – https://www.caribanatoronto… .I am 6’2″ with really blonde hair. The friend I referenced earlier used to joke that we sit beside each other on the pigmentation colour circle ( I’m that white, he’s that black).I said to my buddy, ” Holy Shit, imagine feeling like this ALL THE TIME.”But yeah, only once where it was crazy powerful and in the country I lived in.

          23. CJ

            I’ve been to Toronto and Yonge St. Never that festival though. And that’s it exactly, except also knowing that the people who aren’t your color are likely to be afraid of you or hate you. Not all of them mind you, but enough that you have to be on your guard and they are on their guard as well. That’s america from a black perspective.

          24. JamesHRH

            That’s hard to conceptualize, but I think the friend I keep referencing feels the same way.He drives with his wallet on the dash……

          25. Donna Brewington White

            “It’s just what happens when you’re black and succeed in this country…”What occurred to me is the person you describe has made some lonely decisions in his (her) lifetime to even be in this situation to begin with. So by the time you arrive at a place like AVC, it is only par for the course.

          26. CJ

            Exactly Donna. Those decisions were lonely. They were tough. But ultimately, they were made and now I(we) don’t feel out of place when I end up in a place like this. I’ve been out of place my entire adult life, I’m comfortable being uncomfortable.But it is still hard trying to live in two worlds. Trying to bridge two cultures and feeling that neither is really fully yours. But such is the life we live.

          27. Donna Brewington White

            Appreciate your insights, CJ. Good distinction between “white society” and “white people.”And your point below about what we create systemically.BTW, even though it was only an illustrative point, I resonated with the idea of debunking the fallacy about fat in the diet. I recently started a Ketogenic diet because I come from a family in which diabetes is prevalent. At first it seemed counterintuitive that “fat is good.”

          28. CJ

            I’ve been on and off Keto for the last 3 years or so because I also come from a family with a history of diabetes. So yeah, the fat is good thing took me a little getting used to initially as well but now I look for places where I can sprinkle in that knowledge. And even though I know all of that, I still want gummy worms. 🙁

          29. DJL

            Racism comes in all colors.

          30. CJ

            Yes it does, but I’m not it. I’m just calling it out. I’m not going to tip-toe around it either. Hasn’t gotten us anywhere in 60 years.

          31. DJL

            Hmm. When you lump all white people together like you did above. Blaming everyone of one race for the actions of a few. That is the definition of “racist”. Fred’s entire post was racist – and so is the media that tries to tie these fringe lunatics to average, everyday, hard working Americans. Pitiful.

          32. CJ

            Newsflash, your everyday hard working Americans where in Charlottesville with Tiki torches shouting Nazi slogans. Don’t tell me who is or is not a racist. You clearly have no clue about it.

      2. Hiyito Patada

        Saying “that’s racist” maybe only works on individuals who are not racist, but certainly not on voting blocks.

        1. JamesHRH

          Bannon specifically counsels Trump that ‘race does not bump the needle ‘. Poor advice.

      3. JamesHRH

        I think he’s scared of condemning nutcases right hard and fast.Literally senses it as a high risk move.

      4. CJ

        Also energizes those against him hopefully. He didn’t win by a huge margin and he would have lost had the opposition had more turnout. This, hopefully, accomplishes that as well and splitting the difference, Trump loses.There are way more people against Nazis than there are Nazis.

      5. lonnylot

        > Saying he is a racist because he didn’t come out fast enough and condemn? That’s a pretty hard stretch. Maybe didn’t care, maybe not as important as it should be.I thought it was because he avoided the question…

        1. sigmaalgebra

          Coming out quickly is a good way to make mistakes from getting facts wrong. In a heated situation, condemning can be seen as suggesting that settling the issue with violence in the streets is okay. Condemning separates and raises temperatures.Sure, the newsies, as usual, wanted to trick a Republican leader into making stupid statements, e.g., wanted Trump to denounce. Then the newsies get more headlines.

          1. lonnylot

            I think you’ve misunderstood my comment.

      6. LE

        I agree with the comment that the more elites demonize Trump, the more energized his base becomes. It boggles my head that smart people don’t get this.Agree. The other stupid thing is people trying to move away from him (stepping down from his councils etc as only one example or quitting a job in protest) when it’s the exact opposite. You have vastly more power to make something happen with anyone if you are close to them and have their ear. Like I have said with dating ‘hanging out at a bar has a very very small chance of working, but staying in your home and apartment has zero chance.’.For god sakes even in a hostage negotiation a brave sole would rather be inside than outside. The only reason they wouldn’t do that (and this is important) is to save their own skin.

    4. JamesHRH

      Bingo Kid.Could things go worse? Hardly, and he polls @ 35%. When he boots Bannon and gets pro help on the domestic / strategic communications side, he’s likely golden.He’s unbelievably effective in pressuring people into change. He’s got McConnell on the spit something fierce.

      1. sigmaalgebra

        What on this earth convinced you that there is anything wrong with Bannon? Heck, nearly no one knows who the heck he is, and even fewer people have any significant solid information about what he does or has done.

        1. JamesHRH

          Hollywood Reporter had lots of access. He holds odd views re:long wave destruction / rebirth of societies.MORE IMPORTANTLY: the commands who take the castle can never hold it, esp. in politics. They suffer from Dick Mrrris Syndrome – they campaign nonstop, play the long game / short game w no middle game and piss people off showing them up / being so smart & right alol the time.See this week’s Bannon interview where he talks about how race does not bump the needle in polling, only the economy does. Dems hate his guts already.

          1. sigmaalgebra

            I can’t take seriously the stuff about the castle, etc. And, more generally, I can’t take seriously something from a newsie I’ve never heard of before that, thus, has no track record with me and, thus, no credibility. To me, newsies are BS until proven otherwise. And now no way can I take seriously any US news organization, NYT, …, Hollywood Reporter.For Bannon, if he has a statement, then I’m ready to listen: (1) He holds a high office. (2) Apparently Trump thought he was a bright guy. (3) Apparently he played a big role in the success of Breitbart that, apparently, the NYT, etc. just hates. I don’t really believe Breitbart, but a feather in their cap is that the NYT, etc. hate them!So, if Bannon says that in polling race doesn’t move the needle but the economy does, then I’ll entertain that. Sure, I’d like to see the corresponding polling data. But roughly a priori I can believe that claim. And then, sure the propaganda media and the Democrats will be pissed because apparently the top two cards in their deck are the race card and the gender card.The newsies and the Democrats are “dead to me”; it no longer matters to me what they say; they both lost their credibility long ago.I am willing to pay attention to Trump, and I very much like what I see so far:Trump is a bright, capable guy, good at winning. He’s taking on the propaganda media, Democrats, and a lot of special interests, but I can guess that he, Bannon, etc. knew that going back 2+ years now.In the primaries, Trump mowed down the other 16 candidates like a John Deere harvester mowing down ripe wheat. And he won. His rally in West Virginia, where the Governor changed to a Republican, was terrific — I saved an MP4 copy of the video. He is to have a rally in, sorry, McCain, Phoenix, I guess, just to “fire up the crazies” again, right, John?The propaganda newsies and the Democrats aside, before hearing Bannon’s remark about the economy, sure, I can believe: Supposedly one of the main things that beat Nixon in 1960 was the slow growth of Ike. Then, IRCC, later Bush 41 lost to “It’s the economy, stupid.”. In political science, going way back, a standard remark is that only two things matter in a POTUS election. And the candidates are (1) race and gender or (2) peace and prosperity. May I have the envelope please (drum roll)? And the winner is, “RIP”, (2) peace and prosperity! And to accept the award, FLOTUS Melania is on her way to the stage!So, let’s see; wet me tink a wittle; Trump is going for (1) better trade deals, one country at a time (“Make them an offer they can’t refuse”?), (2) possibly more revenue from tariffs, (3) big tax reductions, (4) a honeymoon window to bring back overseas earnings, (5) greatly reduced regulations on businesses, (6) cut out the quasi-religious nonsense in the EPA and have them concentrate on clean air and water, (7) biggie stuff on infrastructure, including that short list for approvals instead of that long roll where a $2 million building costs $100 million and 20 years, or some such, to get through the regulation shakedowns, (8) job training in the poorest central cities, (9) companies coming to the US, Toyota, Mazda, Foxconn, etc., (10) more manufacturing for the US military, (11) get rid of the job killing nonsense of ObamaCare, (12) stop the immigration that puts US citizens out of work, e.g., just enforce old US immigration laws and practices, (13) US energy independence, e.g., the pipelines, coal, fracking, natural gas, more land leases, (14) exporting of energy, e.g., natural gas, and no doubt more. Uh, that promises to “move the needle”. “It’s the economy, stupid.”. “Pocket book issues.”Are we understanding yet?As that needle moves, the propaganda newsies, the Democrats, and the special interests for those two will lose again. You’d think they’d get tired of losing!Want to know what Trump is saying? Used to go to the NYT,, etc. Then went to CBS, NBC, and ABC. Now just go to Twitter, the White House web site, and YouTube.So, the NYT, CBS, NBC, and ABC have WHAT to do? Right: Nothing but be nasty, and that will look really silly as Trump moves the needle and people see the results in their pocket books.Trump and the US citizens and voters win. The newsies and the Democrats lose, big league.NYT, remember, “Everything has an end. Only the sausage has two.””It’s a wrap.” QED. Done. “That’s all Folks!”

    5. sigmaalgebra

      Sure, no doubt nearly everyone at the NYT is 100% “blue” dedicated liberal, Hillary loving, Democrat.But, in addition, and for business strategy, maybe even more important, the NYT has built an audience and, daily, wants to satisfy, feed, stimulate, maintain, and grow it. It’s not going to give up that audience or go against what the NYT has built. So, the NYT will ride that audience down to $0.00 net worth for the NYT.The NYT can be in much deeper trouble by 2018 or 2020 as enough people catch on that Trump is the real deal, quite serious, not just his hair style, darned effective, no BS, set aside the glitzy, gaudy, bombastic, very direct, blue-collar manner, but doing big, important, much needed things about jobs, the economy, financial security, national security, …, and lots more really important, practical stuff. E.g., likely with lots of smart stuff at the UN, with China and Russia, with Tillerson and leaders in Asia, the US military, etc. Trump just faced down Dung Dong Song Pong Ill Un in Ping Pong Yang, won so far, without firing a shot in anger, just some for target practice and/or demonstrations. Not easy to do. He got it DONE. Darned good work so far.Sure, the highly socially sensitive newsies are always looking for style clues, and with Trump they don’t see what they are looking for and don’t respect what they do see. What the newsies totally fail to get is that Trump does good stuff, actually gets it done, and does it in ways the newsies just do NOT, and canNOT understand, appreciate, or respect. Trump is genuinely exceptional, and the newsies are liberal arts, humanity majors, smoking funny stuff, with liberal profs, in college — not a good background for reality!

  21. JLM

    .”I don’t know enough to say with any confidence that our President is a supremacist.”What a shallow, intellectually lazy utterance which is beneath the dignity of both you and your community. We are smarter than that.It conveys the signalling of people who pretend not to cast aspersions, but who make their message very clear.Allow me to translate: “Trump is a white supremacist and racist.”Today is a day for serious people to identify why there are organizations like Nazis, KKK, Antifa, and BLM — domestic terrorists all.Serious people will be asking, “Why did such a travesty occur in a little idyllic Southern town like Charlottesville, Virginia, with its 48K people?”The President was clear in his initial and subsequent condemnations, but, of course, those utterances did not meet the left’s unclearable hurdle.”I don’t know enough to say with confidence that Fred Wilson is a martian.””I don’t know enough to say with confidence that Fred Wilson is NOT a martian.”I just don’t know enough.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    1. Nik Bonaddio

      The fact that you equate BLM to a terrorist group is fucking mind-boggling. One group was there to promote hate and supremacy, the other was there to promote equality and fairness; the fact that you can’t differentiate between the two is disgusting.

      1. laughsatyou

        he is far-right cookie himself so good luck talking sense into him. he will talk in circles hoping to dazzle you away from your argument, and then he will call you an idiot in much more words. you see, JLM and his big red car a stuck 20 years in the past

      2. JamesHRH

        You are arguing morally. The other argument is practicality. I think it is fair to say that BLM tends to go looking for a flight. How does that help?

    2. CJ

      Sorry JLM, but BLM is not a terrorist group. Calling a group of people who protest being shot down in the street by police like animals for the crime of being black a terrorist organization is, as you say, an ‘intellectually lazy utterance.’Addressing this wholly, the president was clear in his statements that he thinks Nazis are equivalent to a group of people that protest for equal rights and protections. That makes him a racist.

    3. Rob Underwood

      Or, “I don’t know enough to say that Barack Obama was born in the United States.”Here’s a actual quote from DJT about BO: “Was it a birth certificate? You tell me. Some people say that was not his birth certificate. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. I’m saying I don’t know. Nobody knows.”Sound familiar?

    4. SubstrateUndertow

      Is Tump doing a good job ?Who can say it seem nothing is knowable 🙂

  22. Joe Marchese

    This is a lesson in how leaders matter. We celebrate the great leaders, but bad leaders matter just as much. My fervent prayer is that the damage we’re seeing play out in real time doesn’t have the lasting effect that I fear it might.

  23. LIAD

    i know exactly who will spring up today and exactly what they will say.so, in advance. for shame.

    1. DJL

      So you mean someone who might actually disagree with Fred on political issues? Since when it is shameful to have an opinion?

      1. ShanaC

        You and I both know that’s not what’s going on here.

        1. JamesHRH

          in response to LIAD:______________Let’s review:- close minded- inherent implied superiority- dismissive, intended to cause resentment- designed to make you feel better about your viewsPretty sad for <20 words.Comments like these are part of the problem.

          1. ShanaC

            Listen,I am cranky enough because I am in the process of moving 2/3 of the way across the country while also having to moderate polical mess day, which also makes me cranky.I know that factually when it comes to normal tech things you get along, so there is no reason why you can’t figure out how to listen to each other now. I also know I am stressed enough because I have no idea how I am going to move my pet fig tree*, let alone figure out how to get you two to listen to each other. So be adults with each other and figure it out, since I need to go scrub a garbage can while moderating you all to get rid of it as part of this move. </moving>@liad:disqus -figure it out too. You are adults.*DON’T MAKE FUN OF ME!!!

          2. JamesHRH

            Shana, I get that I am combative, but it is evidence based.I will happily recant and apologize when shown my comments are not accurate assessments.What is the point of LIAD’s comment other than to insult or pre-shame active participants who find these topics in this venue an important discourse.Good luck with your move. I have no fig tree transit tips.I edited my comments to de-personalize them and commit to be less personal in my wording in the future. Its a bad habit (makes parenting really hard FYI).Its about behaviour not people, after all.

    2. JamesHRH

      Let’s review:- close minded- inherent implied superiority- dismissive, intended to cause resentment- designed to make you feel better about your viewsPretty sad for <20 words.Comments like this are part of the problem.

  24. JLM

    .”Racism is evil — and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”This was Pres Obama’s utterance on the situation. Where Pres Trump was unclear, he was clear and precise. Agree?Actually, that utterance was made by President Trump, not President Obama. I got them confused. Sorry.But, hey, he was just kidding, right?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    1. Lawrence Brass

      If he would had stopped right there, but no, he continued his speech as he often does weakening and confusing his own message.Huge PR mistakes, over and over.

      1. JLM

        .There is nothing that makes a man a racist or a white supremacist like a PR error, no?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

        1. Lawrence Brass

          I don’t think he is a white supremacist, but I do think his voter base include white supremacists which is what Fred is pointing at, I guess.Racist? I would say yes, mild average under the hood type.

          1. JLM

            .In the electorate of the US, the geography which might be indicative of white supremacists is not located in states in which their small number of votes would be determinant of any elections.The Presidential map is quite predictable.Pres Trump is in office because of his targeting of states which were traditionally Democrat and which he snatched over to his column based on specific policies — such as jobs, coal, energy, immigration, military, foreign policy, terrorism — which made traditionally Dem voters into his voters.No serious political scientist suggests that white supremacy is a viable or organized political bloc.Racism, OTOH, is alive and well. It has been since the Nation’s founding — if your definition is people making decisions based on the race of a candidate.Barack H Obama was the beneficiary of racism, no?Pres Trump outperformed Republican expectations and continues to make inroads into racial knee jerk voting patterns. In many ways, race is an urban issue holding strongest sway in cities.One last point — this whole notion of a support base is nonsense. What matters is the Electoral College. The Trump campaign focused their efforts on what it took to win the nomination and then the election based on states and the Electoral College.His opponent did not. End of story.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

          2. Lawrence Brass

            I agree, ultras are never numerous but make a lot of noise and throw stones. They usually get things in exchange from governments just but doing that.Taking down statues and ramming cars into crowds is something new. Looks ugly in the news, ugly and decadent. Not fake.I really wish comrade Trump gets his shit together soon. Instead of talking about these issues in his tower’s lobby… why not go to NYSE and talk about tech stocks at maximum value. His yes-men court don’t have the balls to counter him, for his own good. Or what?

          3. sigmaalgebra

            Trump is not doing, has not done, anything seriously wrong. No one is offering any serious evidence that he is doing anything seriously wrong. The worst 2+ years of dirt digging has found that has any credibility is something about two scoops of ice cream.What gossip, wild accusation, lying propaganda got you sucked into believing that Trump did anything wrong?

          4. sigmaalgebra

            But, but, but, Hillary was just so RIGHT, the only politically correct, gender ambiguous, social justice, single payer, moral candidate!!!!So, it should not have been an election. Only Hillary has a moral right to be POTUS. So, we should overturn the election on the grounds that Trump has no moral right and Hillary does, votes be damned. Uh, Hillary’s right is above democratic voting. Right????Uh, I’m trying to understand.So it seems to the NYT, etc.

          5. JamesHRH

            Right, with the Son-in-law and Amerosa as beards?Stretch.

      2. JamesHRH

        You got this right Lawrence.Bannon has to go.

        1. sigmaalgebra

          Bannon has to go? Why?The fake news propaganda wants to push out of the White House everyone they can based on whatever can be cooked up.What has Bannon done wrong? Indeed, what has Bannon done at all? Who outside of Trump has any very good idea of anything Bannon has done?To conclude that Bannon should go is to be sucked into the worst, most meaningless, total nonsense, made-up, cooked-up, stirred-up, gang-up, pile-on, NYT-Hillary, Democrat, Goebbels style (“Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it; eventually even you will believe it.”) propaganda.They really sucked you in this time.

          1. JamesHRH

            The commandoes that storm the castle are never fit to lead within its walls.Bannon is on the record in his own words as believing in long wave social destruction theories.

  25. phoneranger

    The reaction of ‘mainstreamers’ to Trump’s presser yesterday was too little too late. They say NOW is the time when ‘regular’ members of his Administration MUST resign. But there was nothing new in yesterday’s blustering attacks on the Alt-Left and Fake News. It’s been there for all to see for years. Trump scraped into office b/c he was deemed just as bad as Hillary. He stitched together a cabinet of 2-raters although most of his other appointments are still vacant. If Cohn, Mnuchin, McMaster et al quit, it will lead to the prompt collapse of the government. Trump, his family and cronies will stay in the WH but the rest of government will grind to a halt. He won’t be impeached by this Congress. There won’t be a Cabinet to push the 25th Amendment button. What to do when NK lobs missiles toward Guam or when the debt limit is hit? Who decides? This isn’t at all like gridlocks of the past. We are truly in a bad place.

    1. pwrserge

      Yeah… You still don’t understand this. You lefties lost. Most people in government don’t care about what you think anymore. When you send your commie thugs out to attack a lawfully sanctioned peaceful protest against destroying a historical landmark, you’re going to get zero support from the Average working class American regardless of what propaganda you put out.

  26. pwrserge

    Yeah… Funny how the “evul racists” didn’t start the fight, the anarco-communists you lefties refuse to denounce did.Quite frankly, America would rather have a peaceful gathering of a handful KKK members and Neo-Nazis than ANTIFA burning down half the city.Quite frankly, your attempt to blame the victims in this case is disgusting. We live in America, where you are allowed to hold any belief you want and speak publicly on it without fear of a communist lynch mob attacking you or your supporters. Yes kiddo, the Nazis and the KKK were the VICTIMS in this case. They had a permit. They had a peaceful rally. AND THEY WERE ATTACKED BY YOUR COMMIE THUGS.

  27. CJ

    There is one more good thing. Discussion.Previously most white people in this country have lived in a bubble that doesn’t accurately represent racism and discrimination in this country. The events that have unfolded since last summer, but especially since Saturday should have popped that bubble. And I know that I’m hoping that the actions and conversations to come forth from this awakening leads to an ultimately stronger, more truly united nation.

  28. Renee Leibler

    As a professor here in NYC- VERY WELL SAID!

    1. JamesHRH

      Lack of intellectual rigour in academia is a huge issue in this debate.Your status as a professor is not a positive, especially given the fact that Fred’s post is lacking in logical coherence, leads with a specious / sad negative inference and does almost nothing to solve the problem of modern democracies handling of disparate and damaging viewpoints.

      1. JLM

        .You are definitely getting an “F” from the professor. Didn’t you learn anything in school?I taught at West Point. I taught cadets how to build timber trestle bridges and then how to blow them up.This makes me qualified to offer an enlightened opinion on …………… everything.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    2. sigmaalgebra

      When I was a prof, I said nothing in my classes about politics in any sense. Before my Ph.D., I taught computer science at Georgetown and a lot of math at Indiana University. After my Ph.D., I taught a lot of math and some graduate computer science at Ohio State. I never wanted to teach and still don’t (backed into it for various reasons).But never but never did I get involved in politics. And neither did any of my profs.Politics and solid academics don’t much go together.

      1. Renee Leibler

        Sorry you did not have a great experience teaching. I teach entrepreneurship and devote a tremendous amount of time to my students outside of my business ventures. It has been one of the best experiences of my life. I am sorry for your misunderstanding of my comment. We do not discuss politics in my class- although it does come up as it relates to business. I am simply saying I have a lot of interaction with young people and the fact that a young college student was killed in Charlottesville was deeply saddening to me. Wish you the best.

        1. sigmaalgebra

          No politics in class? Terrrific. You are getting your students into the business world outside of class, say, being professional or clinical like law and medicine — much better, still.> Sorry you did not have a great experience teaching.It was fun. I just wanted to make money enough to buy a house and support a family, and no way would teaching do that. I had to pretend I was dedicated and deserved charity — I didn’t want charity. My view of the teaching was that it was not a good use of time, money, or effort for either the students or me.

  29. Chimpwithcans

    Ooofff….USA get your shit together. People are watching. Not that my country is much better at the moment: http://www.news24.com/South

  30. Dana Hoffer

    We are only what we stand up for. Not in my memory has our individual identity and national character been under such scrutiny. Both by ourselves and around the world.I applaud this conversation.

    1. sigmaalgebra

      Well, it is a good lesson in critical reading of a lot of nasty propaganda.It’s a good lesson in understanding freedom of speech, assembly, and the press, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, right to petition the government for redress of grievances, right to bear arms, evaluating political leaders, etc.So, it’s a good lesson in citizenship.

  31. DJL

    I cannot believe you (or anyone else) is falling for this media-generated crap. This entire story line is an insult to millions of hard-working Americans. And they are pissed (like me.) To brand all of us under one umbrella is simply preposterous and not supported by any real facts. It is the epitome of racism. Seriously, you think that white Nazi’s are organized enough to swing an election? (I guess they were colluding with Putin as well.)Trump was elected and supported by a core groups of Americans who are tired of the way the country was heading. Tired of the status quo. They are of every color and every background.The media (with the help of high-tech power brokers and ignorant consumers) is trying to destroy him. It is that simple. To believe that he was driven to power by a fringe group of lunatics is simply the dumbest idea they have tried yet.It’s time to wake up. If Liberals continue to eat their own flea-infested dog food – they will continue to lose elections en mass.

    1. k77ws

      The most cogent lines I have read in 45 minutes of browsing the comments here. Hats off to you, Sir.

      1. DJL

        Thank you. I have been called various bad names and nearly banned twice for having such rational thoughts. But it’s important not to get bullied out of free speech.

  32. DJL

    Forgot to add – thanks for lighting the fuse. Gives the rest of us an excuse to share our opinions. Mostly we just consume.

  33. sigmaalgebra

    But he made a cold hard political calculation that paid off for him when he made these horrible people the foundation of his political base and fired them and their hatred up at his campaign rallies.Fred, you just made a huge and serious mistake.The correction is easy: Just be sure you have some really solid evidence, e.g., full, accurate transcripts, full YouTube video clips, etc.I’ve paid a lot of attention to Trump since he announced for POTUS, and not once did I ever see anything like what you claim. Nothing. And you gave no references.Working in this subject without references, full transcripts, etc. is just going for leach bleeding or witchcraft: Sure, I can understand that in Manhattan your claim is accepted as as obvious as the sun coming up tomorrow. Still, without the references, Manhattan, all of it, rich, poor, left, right, is working with nothing better than total nonsense.Did some of the people coming to Trump rallies and voting for Trump have some sad aspects to their backgrounds and beliefs? LIkely so, and also just so for any politician or anyone with a large audience — on Twitter, from Hollywood, TV personalities, sports figures, anyone with a lot of followers. This fact might fool some people into believing your claim, but this fact in no way supports your claim.Oh, maybe I know! There is an implicit claim that Trump should take a list of sad behaviors, and at the beginning of each rally read from the list, denounce everyone with any of those behaviors, and demand that they leave the rally. Is that what is in mind? Sure, it is essentially what is in mind for the newsies who, at some opportunities, scream that Trump did not denounce, did not denounce soon enough, or did not denounce strongly enough. That claim of not denouncing, sure, as we remember from early in campaign, was from something about David Duke.So, a way to attack, Trump or anyone else, is to claim that they should denounce, refuse support from, or are encouraging people with the sad behaviors. That claim is just a cute social game move from, maybe, some nasty stuff at a high strung Victorian garden party. That trick is close to when did you stop abusing your wife?In particular, for the last weekend, what Trump did was terrific, exemplary, highly polished, excellent leadership: He tried to calm down screaming, lower the temperatures, and save lives.Instead, right away, newsies, Democrats, maybe more, attacked Trump for not denouncing. They want to trick Trump into making too-soon, imprudent, unwise, poorly informed, divisive statements attacking this or that group or person with some sad behavior. Emotions are high; people all fired up about their enemy A want Trump to denounce enemy A. Then, sure, the people who have A as their enemy will, then, have more consensus to oppose, maybe attack, injure, kill people in enemy A. Then we are on the way to civil war, need to call out the National Guard, maybe call for martial law, suspend the Bill of Rights, and then the Trump enemies will have much more to use against Trump.Fred, apparently a lot of people believe that it was right, moral, proper, correct, for Hillary to win the election, that the issue was not normal politics but something above that, something nearly absolute, absolutely correct that Hillary, following Obama, was to lead the US to something, the only moral, future. Just what this future is is wildly ambiguous, no more precise than “Yes we can” or “Stronger together”, really fill in whatever you want, single payer health care, a minimum basic income, social justice for all, gender equality, even gender ambiguity, in all respects, a weakened US that does not try to lead the world, gun control, borders open to immigration for all, tax the rich, have only carbon-free renewable energy, severely throttle business and industrial activity, help the UN have a lot more power, have free abortion on demand, generally have a lot of global deals on the way to global government, reduce the role of religion in our society, and on and on. I would only have to guess at the rest.Well, in a free and open election, without a lot of one sided propaganda, most of that shopping list won’t pass in elections or the Congress. That’s just a fact. There’s no huge issue of overriding moral superiority; it just won’t pass. Fundamentally so far there is nowhere nearly enough economic productivity, that is, we are way short of that much money.Trump has done just nothing wrong. For all the huge efforts of the newsies and Democrats for 2+ years, the worst negative point about Trump they found with any credibility was just something about two scoops of ice cream. So, really, the Trump attackers have shown that Trump is squeaky clean, a really great guy, have provided high praise from faint and failed damnation. Any such investigation of Hillary would have her in jail for long times.Sure, the NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Politico, etc. all day everyday pump out accusations, wild theories, really bitter opinions, gossip, made-up, cook-ed up, stirred-up, faked-up, gang-up propaganda, Goebbels style (“Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe; eventually even you will believe it.”) or some such, trying to build a consensus, on no more than gossip and just negative emotion, to drive Trump from the White House. It’s close to a US civil war. A lot of Democrats want that. Since they are also so devoted to Hillary, with all of her illegal activities, they seem to want a one party system. Apparently nearly all the newsies are Democrats and also want that. And the newsies also want headlines, eyeballs, clicks, and ad revenue.But Trump won. A lot of people in the Rust Belt, the mountains from Maine to Florida, and much of the rest of the fly over states really like Trump’s positions on jobs, foreign trade, taxes, healthcare, regulations, national security, the SCOTUS, the grotesque excesses of the EPA, US energy production, immigration, infrastructure, terrorism, ISIS, North Korea, Iran, Israel, going to Mars, economic growth, getting jobs in the worst of the central cities, etc. Nothing wrong with that. That list from Trump is very different from what we got from Obama, were in line to get from Hillary, or are hearing from Pelosi or Schumer. So, there was a difference of opinion, the stuff that makes horse races and why we have elections, that is, do the fighting at the ballot box instead of in the streets.Trump has done nothing wrong.For any claims that Trump has done something wrong, I’m eager to see the solid evidence.

  34. creative group

    MODERATORS & FRED:Why are the rules of this blog selectively used. There are overt threats, etc by the same Ole (And old in age crowd who wouldn’t bust a grape, issuing empty threats behind a computer with beer belly’s)If we provide financial news challenging a narrative we are threatened by Fred but the bodily harm threats are allowed.Moderators not acting makes the rules weak and toothless that appear to apply only if financial interests and narratives are challenged. Can at least one Moderator please moderate.If we block a poster why are they allowed to view our postings still? Defeats the purpose of the block. Should be a two way block.Captain Obvious…UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

    1. ShanaC

      Ask disqus.

    2. ShanaC

      And we are, I’ll get into conference with Fred and William.

      1. creative group


  35. JamesHRH

    Wow, Fred, where to start. From a strictly logic based analysis of your post:- there is no way he got 60M+ votes with white supremacists as his base- he absolutely focused on older white voters, as I believe he innately holds their Reals Before Feels, Get the Job Done, PC Backlash philosophy and believes in the policies he is enacting (he IS an older white voter, after all)- he absolutely focused on white extremists, including supremacists, in key states, to carry the Electoral College, which was a brilliant, if dangerous, tactic- its completely subjective to say he can’t throw them under the bus, he absolutely can do thatOn to other statements:- shunning is a primitive and dangerous activity- I don’t have research to back me up, but shunning leads to resentment & resentment leads to violenceMy thoughts:- Trump’s biggest weakness is his narcissism- he would rather fight alone than subject himself to any perceived orthodoxy- the most interesting comment on yesterday’s poor decision was that it was a flipping of the bird to his new CoS, Gen. Kelly (no one is the boss of me, just watch)- he has already declared war on the GOP, on a policy / effectiveness basis, so we will see if he wins that battle…..if he does, without blowing up the GOP entirely, his re-election is almost assured- Trump’s second biggest weakness is his loyalty / infatuation with Steve Bannon. Bannon was the genius who identified the alienated, HS educated white voters who could get him elected, but he is the #1 impediment to Trump getting his legislative agenda enacted. The people who get you elected are never the ones to get things done on the Hill (commandoes versus operations folks)- his performance on the international stage is personally ungainly, but highly effective. Who does he take advice from on those issues? Kelly, Tillerson, McMaster, likely Mattis too. Operators of the highest grade, not fringe commando types.- he needs to find and listen to a media wizard how can refine his PoV and get him wordsmithed to the point that his points have the MSM reaction thought into them and nullified. It makes him feel good to wing it and, to be technically accurate, he very rarely fails to base his egregiously ineffective statements in a factually correct foundation ( with Charlottesville, President Trump’s assertion are based on the old maxim ‘ It takes 2 to Tangle. ‘ and, technically, logically, that applies to the horrible outcomes last weekend – its just not working).The paucity of public figures who seem to understand the dynamics of the American Democracy (or are unable to control their emotional needs or their need to be accepted by the majority) is shocking and scary. Banning thoughts or a group based on identity is step one on the road to fascism……its a bitter irony that people want to ban white supremacist fascists, but its still scary.As an aside, it was incredibly disheartening to read The Economist’s take down of James Damore, based on ‘motivated reasoning’, only to have their entire argument turn on the phrase ” (At Google), We are trying to hire the best, with the knowledge that forces are militating against us. “….which is, of course, motivated reasoning: https://www.economist.com/n…People’s inabiliy to identify their own assumptions, frameworks and beliefs, even when making reasoned arguments, is destroying the public discourse. The only person who added anything of use was Seth Meyers, who pointedly stated a definition of what the President’s job was (‘to preside over the Republic’) and to thoughtfully question President’s Trump failure to do so, in his opinion. I agree, the President failed in his duties in the last 3 days.When it comes to White Supremacists, the obvious question (which, amazingly, President Trump had obliterated by his inartful handling of the issue) is ‘How should we handle them?’To me, the answer is to have opponents and media ignore them, while having police pay extremely close attention to them.What we should not do is this: A friend who is a good guy posted a pic of WWII force landing on beaches in France with a caption of Anti-Fascists Interrupting a White Supremacist Rally, or some such thing on FB. This type of ‘doing something to show I am against hatred and boy it makes me feel good’ action is now part of the problem, not the solution. It does not help the situation, it just makes you feel good.The same goes for ad hoc protesters going into combustible situations. Those soldiers were at least trained and armed and authorized by society to do, in short, international policing of abhorrent, illegal and evil acts. That’s not the same as anti-protesters showing up at a Supremacist rally. While it is a not quite a 100% equivalency, can you imagine if local, law abiding, well meaning citizens anti-protested at Hells Angels biker rallies? People would say “that is not helping solve the problem”, which, as far as I can tell, is exactly what protesting the rally did in Charlottesville – it didn’t help.We need to wash out the last 40 years of identity politics and reform the American political parties based on philosophy, policies and ideas. The foundation for discourse is faulty.Trump is not the problem. He is a wildly flawed attempt from disparate desperate citizens who cannot compete with highly educated information workers and do not want to compete with highly motivated immigrants to improve their lot. They are victims of themselves but also victims of 3 decades of globalization.Trump is also the reform vehicle that many people who are sick of decades of government bloat, waste, cronyism, poor ethics and ineffectiveness launched into DC. Every elected politician of the past 40 years owns some of that issue.And, for many, he is a last hope to stem the tide of progressiveness (has to be said).Your profile, IMO, obligates you to get past your personal disgust for Trump and White Supremacists and work the problem of managing inequality & unfairness harder.

    1. sigmaalgebra

      > I agree, the President failed in his duties in the last 3 days.I thought he did great: He tried to calm down the situation and save lives.The newsies wanted to provoke him into stupid statements, condemning, denouncing and, net, inciting more violence.

      1. JamesHRH

        Simple better talking points:- if you hold racist views, you have no foundation in reality for that view. You are a sad, hateful person. Judge people only on their individual actions.- if you go to a White Supremacist rally to protest that rally, you are not helping society deal with this difficult issue. You are creating dangerous situations for the sole purpose of making yourself feel like you are doing something. You need to let law enforcement do their job and you need to manage your emotions more maturely.- If you go to these rallies looking to incite violence, on either side, you are no better than the people you oppose. And trust me, we will be asking state legislatures to increase the penalties for felonies committed in these situations and we will be supporting local law enforcement will the full force and effect of the FBI, CIA and Homeland Security. If you are looking for a fight, Uncle Sam will oblige you.- America is founded on several core principles, one of which is free speech. Free speech is the right to express any view that is not outright hate speech, creates an imminent threat to public safety or incites violence. Evelyn Beatrice Hall encapsulated Voltaire’s approach to free speech as: ‘ I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ‘ . She has that right. It is not always easy to do in modern society, but it is vital to the health of our democracy and every citizen is required to do their part to keep America vital and strong.- Our similarities far outweigh our differences. That should be obvious by now.

        1. sigmaalgebra

          > You need to let law enforcement do their job and you need to manage your emotions more maturely.Likely even easier than that: Likely in the US being a white supremacist is not illegal. If a white supremacist does something violent and illegal, then law enforcement should get involved but only for the violent and illegal activity and, we have a Constitution guys, not for being white supremacist.> the full force and effect of the FBI, CIA and Homeland Security.Uh, we’re very much not supposed to let the CIA get involved inside the US.Moreover, it looks like a crucial rule for US intelligence is up for re-authorization this fall, and I suspect after the leaks, unmaskings, etc. the re-authorization won’t pass without a lot of revision.I was trying to say that in his first speech on Friday, Saturday, whenever it was Trump was fully correct in not denouncing specific groups or people, that to do so would have been to ad gasoline to the fires and maybe kill more people. The denunciations came later — fine. Of course, the nasty newsies wanted to claim that Trump should have denounced in the first speech and did later only due to wise newsie arguments — which of course is BS.

          1. JamesHRH

            Ooops, got me on the CIA. NSA? That is what junior staff is for.

    2. Donna Brewington White

      Some very astute observations here, James. Reading this was educational and challenging. It is so hard to get past the emotionalism, to try to take a clear look at this thing. You (generic “you” not 2nd person) can’t really do anything to change things you don’t understand. I thought the vast degree of “things not understood” would have been accentuated by the results of the election, with so many assumptions and presuppositions affronted. But it’s still early given the level of shock and disbelief that many felt in the wake of the election. This may sound simplistic, but a huge percentage of our nations is still working through the stages of grief. Grief is a real thing. Knocks you sideways.

  36. Hiyito Patada

    https://uploads.disquscdn.c…This sign was seen in Seattle last Sunday. I of course find Nazism and white supremacists disgusting. But I don’t like the other side of that ugly coin on the far left, either. It seems like there are two bullying gangs fighting for control of the streets and only their specific right to public assembly, free speech, etc., while trying to intimidate the rest of us into submitting, essentially saying that centrism or nuanced independent views is the moral equivalent of one extreme or the other and we must make a false choice.

  37. ErikSchwartz

    I would like to hear Trump call these people deplorable.

  38. An American

    Fred, as a VC it is important to get a feel of the public to gauge how specific products may fit into society not only today, but tomorrow as well. In doing so, it is important to research topics that are bending society. No other topic is as shape shifting today as Donald Trump.With your statements, it leads me to believe that you are either posting to save face in a highly left leaning industry or that you have not researched the topic to the full extent that it deserves. So it is either conformity or ignorance, both traits that are not becoming of a truly great VC.I will start my argument off with how the Nazi narrative started. As what was seen in Wikileaks, it was a democratic ploy to call their opponent a Nazi to attempt to get the population to see Trump in a certain light.Trump has repeatedly said that we should come together as Americans and that we are all on the same side. He is trying to rebut the damage that has been done from identity politics over the last couple of decades. But the left is not having it, even today Eric Holder tweets about how the people need to choose sides.Trump is getting attacked from all corners and the same mass media that was proven to be collaborating with the “deep state” via wikileaks is going to do everything in their power to stop him. After all, one of Trump’s major campaign platforms was to drain the swamp, the swamp being the exact people who are setting the narrative against his efforts.Because I am not trying to write a book, lets fast forward to today….Trump has repeatedly disavowed the “White Nationalist” side. He even did it on Saturday, sorry that he didn’t name them by name. Then he does it on Monday and names them by name, oh but then it was too late. Lastly, he does it again on Tuesday by calling out the “Neo-Nazis”.Oh, but since he also wants to play moderator, as any good leader would, and calls out the other side, he is taking a side? Really? He didn’t even call them by their name, antifa. But don’t kid yourself, both sides do share in the blame. Both sides had members that came more prepared for a fight than a protest. You watch the videos and it can be hard to distinguish which side is which. They both had helmets, tactical gear, various weapons.If anything Trump should hate the Neo-Nazis more than anyone because it hurts his agenda as everyone is painting Trump to be on their side. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nazi flags you saw at the event were done by plants. I also highly discredit David Duke. He has a hidden agenda. Many don’t realize that David Duke also endorsed the current leader of the DNC. Plus, the event organizer was a Obama fan and an Occupy Wall Street organizer. It just makes you think. But then we are getting into conspiracy land, but on subject…..If you look at the recent events of the past 6 or so months, you will see that this is common getup for antifa- the covered faces, black attire, helmets, tear gas, pepper spray, bats, etc. They have been attacking for a long time now. If the “white nationalists” are not there, the anger gets taken out on cars and buildings instead. Just look at Berkley.I have confidence in our President. I am just not sure if he will be able to withstand the constant onslaught of this false narrative. All I can say is, the only side you need to choose is the “American side”. Outside of that, we are all in this together. Both extremes need to be punished for the events that transpired. We need to come together as Americans. My only fear is that it is too late and the media narrative is going to continue to push us apart into something much worse

  39. Renee Leibler

    Hello James,Thanks for your viewpoint- however to start a conversation by saying “your status as a professor is not a positive” implies that somehow devoting some of my time to education is a negative. I am a tech entrepreneur and devote whatever additional time I have to education. Sorry you feel that way.

    1. JamesHRH

      Academia in the US is rotting. No ethical standards, so many useless classses / programs, no backbone or leadership on so many campuses:I hope you are enjoying teaching and I believe the traits of great entrepreneurs can be taught to those who are not naturally gifted at the process.I have great respect for a very small number of professors. I have disdain for many.

  40. creative group

    CONTRIBUTORS :Redneck Catfish Cooley provides a great view on diversity.DISCLOSURE: If you are sensitive to profanity don’t watch. The message is what is important. Eloquence is not his strong point.”It is OK to be different” Catfish Cooley..https://youtu.be/ivORI9v4z8c

  41. creative group

    CONTRIBUTORS:WALMART CEO Doug McMillon addressed Trump’s missed opportunity to a note to employees.http://fortune.com/2017/08/

  42. alphaG77

    “He can’t throw them under the bus now, even if he wanted to”Why not? He’s POTUS – and he should!

  43. Richard

    Which brings us to bitcoin, what happens if bitcoin becomes the means to finance this new nazi movement?Will the new left abandon their gains to stand with the Jews, the blacks, and the gays?

  44. creative group

    CONTRIBUTORS:When anyone characterizes a call for humanity and love your fellow person as Political because it will never fit their narrative negative prejudices you hold that type of person needs to check their beliefs.UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

  45. Michael

    So what happens when you help make the bed for others to lie down with dogs through the backing of platforms like Twitter?

  46. Rob Underwood

    I am presently the following this w/o comment. I am sharing this because many of us are in tech and it’s relevant to today’s discussion. If you have an issue with what Cloudflare did, fine, but don’t come after me.(The ad hominem stuff is getting old fast, and leaving me with the belief that any form of online dialogue is increasingly pointless, especially on platforms like Twitter and Disqus where people may comment without using their real names. I once really enjoyed online discussions, going back to the old NNTP days, and thought it would lead to more inclusiveness and participation in our civic discourse. Instead it appears to me to be mostly cowards, hiding being screen names, yelling, almost never listening or reading, and rarely if ever sourcing the facts behind their assertions.)Anyway, here’s the piece:http://gizmodo.com/cloudfla

    1. LE

      The site was already on hold at google domains since yesterday. See updated date and status. As a result it would have generally stopped resolving at that time other than cached results floating out there.Domain Name: DAILYSTORMER.COM Registry Domain ID: 1787753602_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com Registrar URL: http://domains.google.com Updated Date: 2017-08-15T00:30:23Z Creation Date: 2013-03-20T22:43:18Z Registry Expiry Date: 2020-03-20T22:43:18Z Registrar: Google Inc. Registrar IANA ID: 895 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected] Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8772376466 Domain Status: clientHold https://icann.org/epp#clien… Name Server: JEAN.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM Name Server: KIRK.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM DNSSEC: unsigned URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/>>&gt; Last update of whois database: 2017-08-16T22:49:14Z <<<What Matt was saying is essentially what the Roy Scheider character said in Jaws in reply to the Richard Dryfus character about cutting open the shark ‘sure I can I’m the chief of police’Unfortunately the ad hominems run even deeper. It is not possible to even debate an issue for the sake of debate. If you make any comment in defense of another point of view people assume you support that point of view. Shouldn’t be that way.Matt did the politically right thing no doubt. I admired him for holding his ground and not caving right away but fully understand why he had to do this. It’s easy for the peanut gallery to tell you what to do and what you should do when it doesn’t impact them in the same way. You know a person who has no downside. A pundit or talking head.That said doing things like this does create a precedent whereby CF will lose some protection (legally) going forward. In a future lawsuit it can be brought up as an example of behavior that is possible and put them at a disadvantage. Same as google and godaddy. Of course that is a future ‘maybe’ and the downside and bad publicity now was a certainty.

  47. Dave Pinsen

    Here’s a video of Trump’s press conference yesterday. Please, someone: tell me exactly which part of this you find offensive.The attacks on Trump seem to bear no relation to his actual words. He condemned the hate groups in Charlottesville, and the killer, and condemned violence on both sides of the event.My only fault with Trump here is that he didn’t explicitly stand up for the right to free speech for everyone — even those with abhorrent views. Something the ACLU, which Fred has donated to, has consistently done, to their credit.The media, and most politicians — amazingly — are endorsing the view that it’s okay to violently attack people based on their views. This is extremely dangerous. In fact, it’s more dangerous than Neo-Nazis, who are tiny in number (per Wikipedia, the largest Neo-Nazi group in the U.S. has 400 members, and that probably includes undercover FBI agents), universally hated, and have no power.https://youtu.be/1c3IQUnyGps

    1. Andy_Kreiss

      The media, and most politicians — amazingly — are endorsing the view that it’s okay to violently attack people based on their views.Who, specifically, is endorsing this idea?

      1. Dave Pinsen

        Everyone who attacked Trump for condemning violence on both sides, or who compared the club-wielding, urine ballon-throwing alt-left thugs to the Allies landing at Normandy.https://twitter.com/Scott_G

        1. Andy_Kreiss

          Scott Gilmore is “the media and most politicians”? Why not just admit you lied in order to defend Nazis ?

          1. Dave Pinsen

            What an obnoxious comment, Andy. I didn’t lie and I’m not defending Nazis. Gilmore is one of countless examples. Here’s craven Marco Rubio, for another example. https://twitter.com/marcoru…And here’s Sheryl Gay Stolberg of the NYT, intimidated into editorializing on her first eyewitness tweet about violence and hate on both sides.I could go on for hours. But I’m going to the beach instead.https://twitter.com/SherylN

          2. Andy_Kreiss

            You find the truth obnoxious, I find defending Nazis obnoxious. I guess we’re just different.Some guy I never heard of on Twitter noted that opposing fascism is always the same. He wasn’t saying antifa is the same as the Allies in WWII.A Republican politician says that evil inevitably is met with violence, and evil deserves it. Do you disagree?Looks like Stolberg thought about her comment, and refused to be intimidated by the “fascist and anti-fascist is the same thing” lie. Who do you imagine she was intimidated by?Going to the beach was probably a better idea that going on for hours, if those were your strongest lead offs.

          3. Andy_Kreiss

            If that 70-something infant currently soling the White House ever spoke the truth, his canary yellow weave would ignite.Yes, you’re defending Nazis, and linking to your incoherent Tweet ( Hey,no wonder you connect with president pinhead) , which links to a propaganda piece that completely misses the point ( Hating Nazis isn’t the same as being a Nazi) only exposes you as a moron.You weaseled out of addressing anything I said,like a good obedient Nazi.Any chance you’ve seen that Vice News doc on the Nazi rally? You should understand who you’re appeasing.My favorite is that Cantwell pussy, tough talking all day, then the later video of him blubbering like a little girl when he realizes he’s a scared little loser.

          4. ShanaC


          5. ShanaC


          6. Andy_Kreiss

            What, you mean more than one guy said that?

          7. ShanaC

            means stop poking at each other, sayeth the moderator

          8. Andy_Kreiss

            I’m not very nice to liars and Nazis. Boot me if you think liars and Nazis need more love than I give them.

          9. ShanaC

            Nah, besides, that kind of decision is a serious, group moderator decision (but we do warn you). Listen, I don’t like Nazis either, and it is frustrating when people lie. I just think that to successfully deal with Nazis, even if they want to dehumanize me, I can’t do that to them, especially on an individual – one to one conversation (which a reply in a forum kind of is. ) I think you have to treat them as individuals because it forces them to get to know you. It is much harder to hate someone you know, who is kind to you and respects you. Many people walk away after really getting to know someone very different than they do.Examplehttp://www.huffingtonpost.c…Considering how segregated social, class, and political lives are in the US right now, it is really easy to forget we’re talking about people, and it makes it easy to pile on hate after hate.As for groups of Nazis, Humor is a strong weapon, because humor points out the ridiculousness that is being human.https://www.nytimes.com/201…Arguing (which is a pattern even I fall into sometimes because I get angry and hurt, I feel attacted) apparently seems to make people who believe this stuff more entrenched with their beliefs – and more likely to want to work on spreading them. And that scares me just as much.(Note: I also consider criminal Nazis fair game. If you keep committing crazy crimes, no sympathy or help, but I will do my best to prevent you from spreading ideas by being a light in the world the best I was brought up to do)

          10. Andy_Kreiss

            I’d say I treat people as individuals , and use humor. I don’t argue because I’m hurt or angry, but if people cling more desperately to their beliefs when challenged, that doesn’t make me stop telling the truth.

  48. sigmaalgebra

    I tried, hard, for two days, to explain why what Trump did on the riots was terrific and why what the newsies claimed he should have done was to point to people, take sides, blame specific people and, thus, encourage attacking them, to divide the country, pour gasoline on a fire, incite more violence, and likely get more people killed. Then the newsies would have more stories to write and actually for once, for the first time in 2+ years, actually have something real to criticize Trump for.The newsies wanted to see more fights, riots, and deaths: There were too many wackos in the riots. But the NYT-Hillary, Democrat, mainstream media, Goebbels style (“repeat a lie often enough and people will believe, and eventually even you will believe it”, or some such) propaganda newsies had their own favorite list of those wackos and wanted them attacked on the streets.As usual, Trump was way too smart for the newsies.Thank God we got Trump: We dodged a really bad bullet with Hillary and her lap dog newsies.Well, my writing gets at best a D- compared with what Ms. Ann Coulter wrote on the same subject:Ann Coulter, “When Liberals Club People, It’s with Love in Their Hearts,”, 16 Aug 2017, Breitbart,athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…Brilliant.I give up: On the riots, Trump, the various, wacko rioters, the innocent people also caught in the riots, and the newsies, I’ll just defer to Ms. Coulter.So, I’ll return to my startup, listen to some J. Strauss music, etc.

  49. John Revay

    Amazed at all of the internet companies walking from supporting hate sites.http://gizmodo.com/cloudfla…Cloudflare CEO on Terminating Service to Neo-Nazi Site: ‘The Daily Stormer Are Assholes’#USVportfolio

  50. Vendita Auto

    Reading the comments 24 hours after my own, feeling rather dejected / saddened by the cold flotsam of personal agendas. If you comment I will not reply.

    1. JLM

      .Bit of humor for you VA — is it flotsam or jetsam and do you know the difference?We are all right. We are all wrong.But still, is this a great country or what?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  51. Matt A. Myers

    I just want to say that these “horrible people” are still people, the twisted and ancient karma has them being who they are today – which includes a society and culture of suffocating education and health from people and instead money being pumped into war and furthering suffering. These are the topics that should be brought up in mass media, why people have become the way they are on a holistic level – and what we can place to stop this – and to stop this around the world. We need to create a global culture of teaching and practicing compassion and learning how to forgive, how to heal through love.

  52. Duncan van der Waals

    When did he assert their morality? He called them “repugnant to everything we hold dear.” That is a direct quote. What quote are you referring to? I am not a Trump fan, but most times when I see people assign extreme views to him they do so while avoiding citing any facts whatsoever. Why do you think that is? In addition to the statement I quoted, he also said the he “condemn[s] in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence” and that “no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws” and that “racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs.” It takes a great deal of cognitive dissonance to see an assertion of supremacist morality there.

  53. laurie kalmanson

    thank you

  54. Bug

    Tiz nice to have a tax advantaged ignorant inside the beltway position on things. And your acolytes are right behind you (see below) in that conga line of suckholds. Stay the course. Your kind has always been with us.

    1. ShanaC

      did you see the comments policy (and rules)? This is in violation…

      1. Kirsten Lambertsen

        Using my block button here.

        1. Donna Brewington White

          Me too. Forgot I could do that. phew.

      2. Bug

        You are a censorious villian of Shakesperian proportions

  55. Kirsten Lambertsen

    I make zero distinction between someone who made racists “the foundation of his political base and fired them and their hatred up at his campaign rallies” and a racist.A person is his actions. Someone likened his presidency to turning over an old log and watching all the vermin crawl out.He has a history that goes back decades before his campaign. It’s always been about the racism.People who accepted his hideously obvious bigotry and sexism during the campaign using the excuse of ‘economic anxiety’ to support him have serious soul searching to do.This whole affair is the last spasm in a grasp for power and privilege by white supremacists across the racist spectrum in the U.S. It’s damned painful, but by God we’re getting the tumor excised now. We won’t stop fighting bigotry, and we will win.

  56. Kirsten Lambertsen

    It’s really startling to read through this and see how easy it is for some of the commenters to drag this into a “Nazi’s vs Communists” argument.Don’t get suckered.

    1. ShanaC

      why does that happen in the first place *sigh* I want that to end

      1. Kirsten Lambertsen

        I’d say, it’s because it’s really challenging to equate Nazi’s with people who fight Nazi’s. So how can we do that in the fewest number of moves? Call the Nazi fighters Stalinists! It’s a classic straw man. Extremists are good at teaching their rank and file how to hijack an argument. ‘Normals’ don’t get so much training on that and typically don’t see when it’s happening to them.Women and people of color, however, often have enough experience with it to see it for what it is.

  57. Bug

    There are too many knickers in a knot here.

  58. awaldstein

    Last para is my hopeful mantra that I woke up to.Nicely said my friend.

  59. kidmercury

    Lol calling Trump and bannon a racist without any proof…….

  60. ShanaC

    You could Foia that question about the daily Stormer.

  61. sigmaalgebra

    > a racist and white supremacist,Of course, you have no good evidence. If you look at Trump’s record going way back, you will reject such claims solidly.What propaganda sucked you into believing that nonsense?You just want to fit in, go along with, the crowd of biased, fake media and the Democrats no matter what the objective evidence is? You want to go along with a lying gossip group trying to build a consensus to overturn the election?

  62. JamesHRH

    I too am shocked by your assertion of Trump as a racist and white supremacist.Identity politics is the problem and your comments are part of the problem. Throwing around highly prejudicial labels carelessly isn’t helping.He’s clearly demonstrated he is a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. Keep your labels to individual characteristics if you want to improve the discourse is my suggestion.BTW – I think he waffles on whacking nutballs because he is always thinking of himself first……and nutballs might come and harm you. Whacking Van Jones is no risk, he probably secretly appreciates getting his profile raised.

  63. Rob Larson

    Yes, I was pleased to see both the republican senators from my home state of Arizona are stepping up, speaking out.

  64. creative group

    Rob Larson:Arizona Junior Republican Jeff Flake showed political courage before it became political fashionable in his book “Conscious of a Conservative”.Jeff Flake will be attacked by the Alt-Right and Kelli Ward (Tea Party opportunist) will be prompted up as a alternative candidate.It appears Kelli Ward losing to Sen. John McCain didn’t receive the message from Arizona voters. Kelli Ward needs to stick to practicing medicine. The comment she made after Sen. John McCain’s brain tumor announcement was vile and tasteless. Will vote and campaign against her and ilk.Kelli Ward https://en.m.wikipedia.org/…UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

  65. sigmaalgebra

    Flake likes what he got from immigration, the same as what Scarlett O’Hara got from immigration before the war. Flake is trying to restart the civil war.

  66. kidmercury

    everyone’s a journalist now. that’s what makes the internet fun 🙂

  67. pwrserge

    No you are just a propagandist and a traitor who is trying to hide the fact that you support ANTIFA commie garbage.

  68. LE

    That was actually a quite excellent comeback in your typically dry way.

  69. creative group

    This sums up the thought process of those in the Republican Right Wing/Alt-Right camp.Words matter and provide a footprint of who you are dealing with. No justification for the apologists of this manure. Call it out and the people who think this way. Stop being passive.Another block and really care less who defends it and attempts to justify it.Fleas, Fleas, Fleas.UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

  70. Lawrence Brass

    If calling “my mexican” or “my afroamerican” to people at his own rallies during the campaign is not racist, maybe not, but xenophobic at least.. what other proof do you want? DNA tests from cabinet members?

  71. CJ

    If you don’t think either have demonstrated enough for someone to have that opinion then I think you need to question your definition of evidence and your acceptance of bias.And as I know you are, or were, in the Chicago-land area, I’d gladly buy you a cup of coffee or lunch to discuss this with you. I’m not fighting this battle at the institutional level anymore, I can’t make a difference there but I’ll fight it person by person.

  72. Kirsten Lambertsen

    “without any proof” is the equivalent of 2 + 2 = 5

  73. pwrserge

    No kiddo. What Trump did was what you leftists refuse to do. He called out your pet commie thugs. You know, the same commies that killed ten times more people than the Nazis?

  74. laughsatyou

    go on….next up in the alt-right playbook is to talk about how the “jews” engineered communism and the 100m deaths are due to them blah blah blah. you’re group is in the sun, and there is no shade for miles

  75. creative group

    pwrserge:It pains us to even address people either on the Alt-Right or Alt-Left regarding any extreme view.Your Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Hannity and Bannon take on the deplorable actions of those attempting to re-appropriate history works with the uneducated. The Confederates lost. Period. There is no reviving those who lead. The thought is identical to Nazi’s. Period.All you sympathizers will be called out for who you are on both sides.Another block!UNAPOLOGETICALLYUNEQUIVOCALLYINDEPENDENT

  76. pwrserge

    Yeah… Because clearly #StalinDidNothingWrong? You lefties just a bunch of terrorist thugs who will be dealt with in due course.

  77. JLM

    .Proof? Charlie Crystle requires proof?How about:”I don’t know enough to say with any confidence that BLM is a terrorist organization.”Or, alternatively,”I don’t know enough to say with any confidence that BLM is NOT a terrorist organization.”Isn’t that the standard now?The legal definition of terrorism is: “The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.”By that standard, they are a terrorist organization and those who support them are terrorist sympathizers and enablers. An example which is pretty damn clear was the riots in Charlotte, NC wherein “violence and intimidation” — including at least one dead — was used in the “pursuit of political aims.”I am against all violence and intimidation. You, Charlie, are more selective.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  78. JamesHRH

    Charlie, there are some factions of BLM that hold views that are pretty odd. BLM Toronto is anti-police. Period. How is that helpful? Got them booted from the Pride parade. What was the point of that?And now they are considered leading voices in BLM.We need to move past identity as the vehicle for change in society and symbolism as success.

  79. k77ws

    So BLM folks chanting “pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon” all good by you then? Or maybe that was just BLM “fringe” and thus to be given a hall pass?https://www.cbsnews.com/new

  80. JLM

    .You turn a blind eye to the obvious, Charlie:”What do we want?Dead cops.When do we want it?Now.”In their own words.A terror organization is one that uses violence and intimidation to achieve their objectives.Sounds like it fits the bill. You, my friend, are a domestic terror enabler and funder. Own it.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  81. pwrserge

    Ah… where the commies are, I will soon follow. How else are we going to get them into the helicopter?

  82. JamesHRH

    Serge has some powerful things to say. Its too bad he can’t moderate himself to be more effective in his communication.

  83. yous

    hahahahah nobody is scared of you. keep exposing the ignorance from your side.

  84. Pete Griffiths

    This sort of abusivd tirade is contrary to the policies of the site.

  85. fredwilson

    Pls watch your language here. Read the comment policy linked to at the top of the comment thread. We like to be nice to other people here. If you can’t figure out how to do that while making your point then you might want to take your comments elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the Internet where your comment would be typical. Sadly.

  86. pwrserge

    Yes… Clearly, the ones opposing the most genocidal ideology in human history are “ignorant”. Go away little commie. You’re never going to be in power again. Not without a Civil War, one where you will get your teeth kicked in.

  87. ShanaC

    What did we say about helicopters, this site, and the rules previously?No insinuating death threats for people who hold different political opinions than you, we don’t actually live under Stalin.

  88. pwrserge

    Keep blaming the victims commie. Again, the alt-right had a permit. We live in America. If you don’t like the 1st Amendment and support socialist lynch mobs, move to Venezuela.

  89. sigmaalgebra

    To start to read, we need to know what this “alt” stuff is. Repeating it doesn’t define it, at least not for some decades.

  90. pwrserge

    You go suppressing political dissent. See how well that works out for you.

  91. pwrserge

    Oh, and if you think killing followers of the most genocidal ideology in human history is somehow wrong, I have nothing to discuss with you. You’re defending people who are responsible for A QUARTER BILLION DEAD BODIES. Quite frankly, they are FAR WORSE than Nazis.

  92. JLM

    .There was no political dissent under Stalin.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  93. Pete Griffiths

    Can we please ban this guy. He is demonstrating a flagrant disregard for clearly stated forum policy.

  94. ShanaC

    He’s asking for specific incidences where BLM as an organization chose violence or insinuate they would choose violence as a first choice to get thier point across, rather than get into a situation that devolved into violence. The thing is BLM officially works in the Dr. Martin Luther King mode, even if situationally protests may devolve depending on police and counterprotest responses (in most cases this doesn’t happen, but this also means that it doesn’t make it to the media)Remember, people called King violent too. These pictures made the news at the time. We don’t say that now.http://www.encyclopediaofal

  95. markslater

    You know what i saw on saturday. Swastikas.

  96. Adam Cole

    As a northern neighbour I’m challenged to comprehend the increasing polarization of the right presently happening in the US.Fanatical attachment to personal guns meant specifically to harm other humans, obsession on personal liberties over compassionate social systems, and now this rationalization and equivalency-mapping of the far right with the left, and particularly BLM. How many black slave owners have there been? How many whites have been enslaved? How many whites have been refused bus service, housing, job opportunities, same seating in restaurants because of their skin colour? How many whites have been ghettoized because they were white? There is no equivalency here – and those trying to suggest otherwise must wrap their blanket of ignorance increasingly tighter.The common thread in many of the ills of the great democratic experiment USA is the ever increasing prioritization of the individual and the attendant extreme me-first attitude over community and building a compassionate society. When did this change?I cry for you USA.

  97. Rob Larson

    I’m a fan of Jeff Flake. He’s a small-government conservative who believes in civil liberties and is not afraid to stand up to his own party, even at the risk of costing him an election. I wish we had more politicians who stand up for the principles they believe in, whether conservative, liberal, libertarian or whatever, rather than just following lock-step behind whoever is currently their party leadership.Biggest problem with the American political scene is that people think in terms of red and blue, my party vs their party, rather than thinking for themselves about which principles and policies they believe in and which they don’t. If we had more politicians who were willing to take stands on principles not aligned with their party, it might help members of the general population pause and think about their positions, beyond simply red vs. blue.

  98. JLM

    .@ShanaC:disqusI used Charlotte, NC as an example because BLM was the organizer of what became riots on several nights running. They showed up in a provocative manner to provoke a riot. The riots created massive property damage and death. They did not apply for assembly permits.BTW: #1 son lives downtown in the Queen City and I walked those streets before the riots many times.Your notion that situations somehow “devolve” into violence is not supported by the facts.Violence is often signaled by what people bring with them to their “peaceful” assemblies — such as guns, knives, sticks, rocks, pepper spray. All of these things were evident in Charlotte, NC as they were in Charlottesville, VA.The utterances of BLM are violent and evocative of violence. You cannot chant that you want to commit violence against police and then say “we are not violent.”We are entitled to free speech but we are responsible for what we say.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  99. sigmaalgebra

    All I know about the BLM is that they shouted “fry’m like bacon” and Hillary met with them.It did appear at the time, but I have only poor evidence, that a few police were too willing and eager to shoot a black man who did nothing seriously wrong and who posed no treat to the police, maybe was just running away. Again, that’s what a few cases looked like, but I have only poor evidence.So, if there was unjustified shooting, which appears to be the case, then “BLM” looks like part of an appropriate “petition the government for redress of grievances” and political response..The “fry’em like bacon” is close to inciting violence and not good.But, really we don’t have to dig deeper than that: We are awash in laws on the books to constrain such things and awash in law enforcement.So, if BLM breaks some laws, then law enforcement should deal with it.If, otherwise, BLM wants to demonstrate, meet, okay, fine with me. But “fry’em like bacon” won’t get them my support or sympathy.But as a US citizen, I don’t have to pursue questions about BLM or any protest groups. First, in the US, a lot of protest is well supported by our Constitution. So, we should expect it. Second, if a protest does something illegal, then we have plenty strong responses to that.But in particular, we don’t have to, and shouldn’t try to, settle the protest issues by violence in the streets.

  100. k77ws

    “pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon”. There’s the specific incidence of insuation of violence as a first choice to get their point across. But as far as some here are concerned, that’s totally harmless behavior in the vein of civil rights, I guess.https://www.cbsnews.com/new

  101. ShanaC

    Mostly because they died. His helicopter reference is about Pinochet http://knowyourmeme.com/mem…I don’t think anyone here deserves that, and it’s out of bounds of our community policy.

  102. kidmercury

    the burden of proof is on the accusers. i only suggest that the accusation not be made so flippantly. who amongst us would like to be called a racist? it is a serious allegation and should be made carefully, in my opinion.

  103. Lawrence Brass

    I know quite a few people that are racist, not outspoken about it, not swastika branded. I understand racism as a social phenomenon or a problem, not a sin. Its presence is evident in our society, everywhere.

  104. sigmaalgebra

    > xenophobicNot just hypersensitive but just plain wrong.E.g., due to his xenophobic stuff, Trump must not like people from Central Europe, right?Mexicans? Supposedly he has hired thousands of Mexicans. His point is that we should have immigration, legal immigration that is good for the US.What propaganda got you to suck up “xenophobic”?There’s no evidence for that; the overwhelming evidence, if only from the Mexicans he has hired and two of his wives, is the opposite.”Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it.”, and one of these lies is “xenophobic”. It’s just a lie from people trying to fool you.

  105. JamesHRH

    That’s without grace, but racism require a systemic application of unfairness against someone because of their race.This example is not even close.

  106. k77ws

    Here’s a couple racists and xenophobes I hope you will help us clean some house on, too…somehow they seem to have slipped under the radar: “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking!” — Joe Biden, Vice President“I mean you’ve got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking guy.”— Joe Biden, Vice President“[Harry Reid] was wowed by Obama’s oratorical gifts and believed the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as a Obama — a ‘light-skinned’ African American with ‘no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.’” — Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, as quoted in the book Game Change

  107. k77ws

    Didn’t Obama actually eulogize a KKK member (and US Senator) named Robert Byrd? Seems like a double standard, no?

  108. Lawrence Brass

    my reply to you is the previous comment, pressed reply on my own.

  109. ewchaikin

    Easy to provide documentation on both accounts. Would do so if it weren’t a complete waste of time as you can easily google many Bannon-approved headlines, and the Trump family’s longstanding attempt to segregate their housing along racial lines. To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy: “When Woody Guthrie writes a song about how racist your father is…you may be a racist.”

  110. Lawrence Brass

    I am no one to accuse anyone, neither a judge. It is just my own personal opinion.But if you insist:https://www.washingtonpost….

  111. Kirsten Lambertsen

    If I ever get called a racist, I’ll be examining my actions and words and soul to understand if I need to do better, if I have unconscious bias that I need to root out. This is the critical work that white people have in front of us, far more needed than providing cover for people who are being called out for their racist actions.

  112. ShanaC

    As a person, I’m fine with people disagreeing with me politically. As a moderator, I’m fine with people disagreeing with each other on this site politically.I’m not fine with as a person:saying incorrect statements about how a given person views their own political positions. Why not ask them, and ask them why they believe what they believe? Overtly political language over policy language since I prefer thinking about problem solving rather than who is winning or losing in politics. If we’re playing the winning/losing game, the truth is America is losing because what’s actually happening is problems aren’t being solved.However I try to treat them as pet peeves because I moderate and I can only control behavior so much. I can’t make people nice to each other to the ideal I would love.I’m not fine with as a moderator:Language that riles up the community to no endDerailed conversations that make people angry/threatened and prevents occasional commentators and newbies from stopping by.Implict threats.Insulting people if they disagree.Disobeying the rules.You’re falling into the second category. You get 3 more warnings.

  113. JLM

    .”Don’t cry for me, Argentina, I mean Canada.”Your suggestion that the right is becoming more polarized is not true.What one considers the “right” today is a millimeter right of center.The issues which energize and propel the right — from an election perspective — are national security, the economy, jobs, income, Federal financial prudence, coal, energy, fair trade (many of these could be subsumed in the “jobs”).Candidate Trump addressed these issues in the hinterlands where his opponent was MIA. That’s why he won.Extremist organizations such as Nazis and the KKK (a construct of Southern Dems after the Civil War) are splinter organizations which receive disproportionate attention from the media who are advancing a meme which they have created.As an election judge and a voting district chairman, I can say with certainty I have never met a Nazi or a member of the KKK at any of the Travis County Republican Party Executive Meetings.May I also scold you on two glaring historical inaccuracies?The Irish slaves beat the Africans to both the Caribbean and the Colonies by a hundred years. Study your Cromwell and check back in. Also, there were a meaningful number of black slave owners.Charleston, SC is a very interesting story as the white gentry came up from the Caribbean — not religious emigrants or refugees — and placed a great emphasis on buildings. Slaves were owned by freed black men and many of these black men became legendary builders.Now, let’s talk about that Trudeau cupcake, can we?I stand for the merger of the US, Canada, and Mexico and have for decades.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  114. JamesHRH

    The issue is the focus on individual feelings, which social media empowers. People can feel good by adding to the discourse unproductively and in isolation.The cool thing about the USA is that they do the right thing, after exhausting all other options (W. Churchill, paraphrased wildly). If any culture in the West solves this problem, its America.Meanwhile, Canada is becoming Europe. That’s who you should cry for (I’m a CDN living in Houston FYI).

  115. k77ws

    @disqus_dH1lw9Izuw:disqus Your historical myopia is impressive. But to answer your question….How many whites enslaved? “…estimates that 1 million to 1.25 million white Christian Europeans were enslaved in North Africa. these numbers do not include the European people which were enslaved by Morocco and by other raiders and traders of the Mediterranean Sea coast),[3] and roughly 700 Americans were held captive in this region as slaves between 1785 and 1815.”Barbary Slave Trade. A conveniently overlooked piece of history. How does that fit with your narrative?

  116. sigmaalgebra

    Evidence? What evidence?

  117. kidmercury

    i dont live in chicago anymore — high taxes drove me out — i’m in indianapolis suburbs now. but i honestly haven’t seen any truly damning evidence against trump or bannon about racism — with bannon the evidence is especially scant. i honestly would like to see it. and i would like it to be acknowledged and perhaps reconciled in some way as to how/why he appointed ben carson to his cabinet if he is so racist.

  118. JamesHRH

    They are opportunists who clearly courted unsavoury votes in key states that carried the Electoral College.Brilliant, but icky strategy.Nothing is more Trump than that – do what it takes with no shame or grace to achieve success.

  119. creative group

    ShanaC:Please Moderate and ban the offenders. The empty threats are not effective. They quiet down until topics which address racism presents another opportunity to re-appropriate history of a failed Confederacy and Nazi Germany.Most of the American born sympathizers are Irish (forgetting their history in early America) and other European progeny punished under Nazi Germany who wouldn’t even be embraced by pure Neo Germans.These sympathizers never traveled outside the United States.UNEQUIVOCALLYUNAPOLOGETICALLYINDEPENDENT

  120. JamesHRH

    Not particularly helpful or articulate.Use your brain a bit more.

  121. ShanaC


  122. JLM

    .Do you think the US has ever had a President who was not a narcissist?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  123. creative group

    JamesHRH:let’s not allow facts to get in the way of a false narrative.http://www.politifact.com/t…Racism is only hard to prove when the racist is in control of the narrative. The reply is always prove it. And those who apply the racism tag on every disliked action hurts addressing racism.

  124. SubstrateUndertow

    Racism is as racism does!And yes, you are probably right, he is not a self-aware intentional racist but that is a distinction without a difference when you are the president of United States of America.

  125. Amar

    Fwiw, it is important to distinguish between the notions of– you are a person “who may be condoning racism or coopting people with racist agenda for political gains with very little personal consequence”versus– you are a racistI *think* (this is just my opinion) a lot of the folks here are saying the first but writing the second.

  126. sigmaalgebra

    > Bannon-approved headlinesWHAT a joke! Breitbart has wild, nonsense headlines of all kinds all the time, very much as in they just report what people say and try to report it to get a lot of clicks.

  127. JamesHRH

    I would like to hear your definition, even if I fear that I am likely to post a 500 word response when I do.;-)

  128. CJ

    Yeah, hear you on the taxes. Totally understand.On Bannon – he ran one of the country’s biggest racist websites and the values he’s professed through that website and other interviews make him a racist and supremacist. Alt-Right is a fancy marketing term for racist, neo-nazi, <enter white=”” supremacist=”” synonym=”” here=””>.Trump hired Bannon, not only to run the campaign but then basically to run the White House. But if more is needed, his comments wrt false equivalency in the wake of the violence in Virginia stands on its own. His campaign that’s literally littered with dog whistle racist, white-supremacist call outs, his inability to immediately dismiss David Duke’s endorsement. The fact that he has literally attacked every group of people in this country but Neo-Nazi’s. Then there are the housing apartments that he wouldn’t rent to black people. His opinions on the Central Park 6. Man I could keep going with this.So yeah, I don’t begrudge anyone for calling either of them racists, because they’ve demonstrated it.

  129. JamesHRH

    Indy’s gain, Windy City’s loss.

  130. CJ

    See my reply to Kid.

  131. CJ

    No, that’s what white people say to make themselves more comfortable with him.And look, I know that sounds off the cuff, and blunt and gruff but it’s true. Racism isn’t only saying the N word. It’s not only saying ‘I hate black people.’ and not acknowledging that is what’s wrong with this country and white people specifically around this issue.Racism is more than you’ve been willing to acknowledge and it’s now time to pay attention and see what your(global your) passive voice has wrought. Do you think Nazis in the streets is something that a non-racist society gives birth to? There is an article in the news from the same weekend while Virginia was in full swing with the headline that a German beat up a drunk American in Germany for shouting Nazi slogans and making the salute. Here in America we have a President who can’t even bring himself to denounce them.So yeah, racist. Racism. There you have it. Ignore this at your own peril because now there is no longer an excuse that ‘we didn’t know. They just told you.

  132. pwrserge

    I’m sorry, I get a bit testy with people who support an anarco-communist hate group that espouses an ideology responsible for a quarter BILLION dead bodies in the 20th century alone.

  133. sigmaalgebra

    Sorry, wake up and be a US citizen! It’s not trivial!E.g., have to get comfortable with freedom of speech, e.g., angry people shouting nonsense, really ugly stuff, with freedom of the press, full of fake-news, propaganda, paid for propaganda, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law (a mob on a street is not sufficient) with a lot of legal safeguards, right to keep and bear arms, right for nearly anyone to run for office, right of nearly everyone to vote. Tough stuff to get used to!And as a good US citizen, you have to filter the garbage from the rest.

  134. kidmercury

    i don’t think breitbart is racist. the comments section is, but i don’t think the actual publication section is. i also don’t think alt-right is racist, i think that is just sometihng repeated over and over again.the housing apartment stuff i agree is the closest thing to evidence. however, he says he was rejecting welfare recipients, not black people. he still denies wrongdoing and while the situation doesn’t make him look good i’m not ready to fully demonize him as an irredeemible racist yet — especially since he appointed to carson to his cabinet, which is not something a nazi sympathizer would do.

  135. CJ

    No it doesn’t. Not even close and that’s the problem. You don’t get to tell me what racism is. That’s like the employee telling the boss the job description.Your definition isn’t even close, it’s just one part.

  136. Lawrence Brass

    That is a consequence of racism when taken to the extreme, and luckily illegal in many places.Language is important, how you use it tells a lot of things. I think representatives should use it gracefully because they are holding office on behalf of the people. They are at work, not in their private living rooms.

  137. ShanaC

    they settled after he and fred either hid/destroyed important documents about the matter and buried the government in delaying paperwork. The case got too expensive to keep going and the evidence got too hard to keep finding because the Trumps made it difficult to investigate by all accounts.The government used “testers” to check, so the government knew that their fake applicants who were black were denied, irrespective of if they were or were not taking welfare. (the actual case is super interesting.)http://www.thedailybeast.co…They should have tried to go to trial anyway. Stupid.

  138. CJ

    The comment section IS Breitbart. It’s like saying that Reddit isn’t the comments. The links on Breitbart are chosen to attract the audience in the comments. If the website wasn’t racist, they wouldn’t tolerate and encourage with content the comments. Full Stop.Second, the problem with allowing white people to label racism is that they use arbitrary metrics like ‘A nazi sympathizer wouldn’t have a black guy in his cabinet’. Well the guy who drove his car through a street full of people had a black friend according to his mom. It’s bigger than that Kid.Do you think a non-racist president would have equivocated on denouncing Nazis? Now add to that a president with a Jewish son-in-law and grandkid? And you still won’t condemn it eagerly and passionately? What else could he be?

  139. Salt Shaker

    Aiding and abetting isn’t a defendable position re: Bannon/Breitbart racist commenters. When you poor out the gasoline but don’t lite the match you’re still quite culpable, both legally and morally.

  140. JLM

    .From a foreign policy perspective, I am very much in favor of the threat of violence — the capability of offering an unequivocal resolution to problems which are unable to be solved by diplomacy.I applaud the attack on Syria and the threats levelled at North Korea, which I put in the win column. I think Guam is relieved that Kim Jung Un backed off the idea of nuking them. Could be wrong.War is the last act of a failed diplomacy.I used to be engaged in that industry and I used to teach people how to focus violence on our enemies. I was quite good at it. I used to be affiliated with the “death from the skies” bunch. Talk about a cult!So, yes, I am in favor of violence when visited upon our foreign enemies.I am opposed to domestic violence and I defy even you to find an iota of evidence to the contrary. If I were the Mayor of Charlottesville or the Governor of Virginia, I would have denied the applicant’s permit.Charlottesville is 48K folks who voted for HRC by an enormous majority. Why would that local political establishment allow such a rally?Point of order — we are entitled to free assembly but home rule cities can exert discipline in the form of requiring an assembly to be “peaceful.”I predicted that Trump would win the election based on my reading of the inherent anger of the 2014 mid-terms, but to say I “support” him personally is a bit of a stretch. I do like most of his policies. That is fair.I see all of this nonsense as ensuring his re-election in 2020.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  141. JamesHRH

    Perceived is a cheap shot Charlie.Esp. to someone who served ably and effectively in a war that he likely would not have waged if he were in charge.

  142. sigmaalgebra

    > Trump, who regularly encouraged physical intimidation at his campaign rallies).Charlie, the people who hate Trump have REALLY got you by the nose and have been leading you around.Look, I watched on YouTube a quite significant fraction of all the Trump rallies. So:Some people were deliberately disrupting the rallies. Then soon Trump would say “Get’m out’a here” or some such. Soon he would say “Get’m out’a here but don’t hurt’em. Don’t hurt’em.”Then the propaganda turned that into what you said.Charlie, what you said is bonkers, really just wrong, a wild distortion of what Trump actually did and said.What he did was good leadership: Get the audience on his side. Good speech making. And not encouraging violence at all. Or intimidation. Maybe you want to conclude that he encouraged group cohesiveness for which we have to guess that he is a good politician, political leader, speech maker, and salesman. You expected something else?But, some distortion and propaganda can lead some people around to believe that Trump was this and that bad thing — he’s NOT. The claims are just propaganda with no objective basis in fact.Charlie, you’ve got to be less naive and gullible in the face of a huge river of propaganda, gossip, emotion raising, mob building, etc. all with essentially no evidence.Charlie, all there is against Trump that has any credibility is something about two scoops of ice cream. The rest is just nonsense propaganda.If you’ve got some solid evidence against Trump, then I’m all ears.

  143. ShanaC

    we don’t ban people for politics alone. We’ve actually never banned anyone for politics in the history of the site, and doing so, especially now, would be a HUGE deal. Hence why I am trying to get in touch with fred

  144. JLM

    .You seem to be erecting some higher hurdle than the law and suggesting there are “tactics” which may be ignored if you are sympathetic to their aims.Terrorism — unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.This is a very low hurdle and rightfully so.It is difficult to imagine any interpretation in which BLM is not a domestic terrorist organization and you are not an enabler and funder of domestic terror.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  145. Rob Underwood

    Hi Pw,I see in a couple comments your assertion that other posters are communists.I assume you know that the host of this blog and board is one of the best known and most successful technology venture *capitalists*. In fact, he was the first big investor in Twitter and it’s not inconceivable that w/o his investment the company may not have survived its infancy.Many other commenters are also investors or entrepreneurs.You would not be wrong to assert that many ppl on the board, though hardly all, lean left, but a lot of folks here are proud and successful capitalists.

  146. Salt Shaker

    Perhaps someone as worldly and knowledgeable as yourself can recommend a good orthodontist? Such unnecessary hostility.

  147. Dan Epstein

    Worth a read. When free assembly meets the 2nd amendment.http://www.slate.com/articl…TL;DR edit – “Rallies with guns cannot be treated, for First Amendment purposes, in the same fashion as rallies with no guns.” (but you should read it)

  148. k77ws

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  149. JLM

    .Asked and answered — Charlotte, NC riots on repetitive nights which destroyed massive amounts of physical property, killed a man by gunshot, unlawfully assembled, clashed with police, while demanding the arrest and imprisonment of the man who shot a black victim.The shooting was later investigated and deemed to have been righteous. They demanded the replacement of the black Chief of Police of Mecklenberg/Charlotte.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  150. k77ws

    1) “pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon” — not a reference to cooking breakfast, Sir.https://www.cbsnews.com/new…2) “That’s right! One piggly-wiggly down!” [fellow protesters cheered0 — not reading a children’s book, Sir.http://www.nationalreview.c…Please do not try to hold BLM up as a paragon civil rights voice. It distracts from other pressing conversation here.

  151. sigmaalgebra

    Much better information than I had and much, much better than easy to find in the news.

  152. JamesHRH

    No, there isn’t.There’s being a racist ( holding superiority beliefs), racism (structural / systemic are two sides of the same coin, but I’ll relent here) and there’s prejudice (applying attributes to entire groups or races).One is stupid, the second is unfair and harmful (requires reform), the other is just lazy and requires thick skin.

  153. awaldstein

    Nicely put as I’ve been struggling with this a bit.

  154. JLM

    .You need to read up on the War Powers Act and the Authorization for the Use of Military Force — which both grant legislative authority for a President to take many of the actions you decry.The rally was conducted by people who did not live in C’ville. C’ville is a little Southern college town and doesn’t have an active KKK or Nazi chapter.Why would the Mayor let these shitheads assemble? What duty does a Mayor have to persons who do not live in that town?The Mayor, a Dem lefty, allowed this group to react to the renaming of Lee Park to Emancipation Park. Next on the agenda is removing the statue of Lee from the park.It was an act of stupidity to entertain that rally. Anybody with a brain could have predicted that the presence of Nazis and the KKK would be inflammatory.As to the issue of its legal right. We have a legal right to assemble with a caveat that it is peaceful. When other such rallies have happened courts have allowed home rule cities to impose bonding requirements to pay for public damage.The results suggest that a smart person would have used every strategem at their disposal to forestall that rally — in August, in Virginia? Let then hold it at 8:00 AM on a Tuesday in January when UVA is out of session.Personally, I have no problem with citizens and their leaders deciding who they want to honor with statues and if they change their minds, I am fine with that also.But, good God, man, have the fundamental sense to know that if you leave gasoline and matches lying around there will be a fire.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  155. JamesHRH

    https://www.merriam-webster…They are racists, they believe in racial superiority.That is racism, it unfairly disadvantages people of those races.That is prejudice, thinking those things about everyone in that race.Hard to have productive discourse, without common terms.

  156. Kirsten Lambertsen

    Thank you. There’s nothing that proves the point of white privilege quite like a bunch of white people arguing about the definition of racism. #resist

  157. JamesHRH

    People talk that way about ET.Do better.

  158. JamesHRH

    330 M Americans, 75 losers with tiki torches.Its not 1 dimensional, its a ratio issue.And, America has a long way to go to fix the issue of inequality, and it is trending the wrong way.As well, human nature is such that people like scapegoats for their failures. Identity politics is the foundation for a lot of these bad social situations.Words matter more as shared understanding (positive) than they do as labels (negative).

  159. JLM

    .“Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans“We are a nation founded on the premise that all are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our creator, we are equal under the law, and we are equal under our Constitution.”Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America. ”Donald J Trump said that. Seems like a clear expression of his position on things.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  160. JamesHRH

    That’s his father’s business and how he was raised.How about something from less that 40 years ago?He’s a narcissist and a borderline sociopath, without grace or shame.Racist? No proof.Prejudiced? Only against people who inhibit his success.Do better.

  161. JamesHRH

    No.Bush 1 maybe?Ford ( haha )?

  162. Salt Shaker

    We shouldn’t conflate a large ego w/ narcissism. The former prob comes w/ the territory, not the latter.

  163. Pete Griffiths

    )Probably not.The question however is the degree to which that advanced or hinders their job performance.

  164. JamesHRH

    You are logically correct while being quite inconsiderate of @jlm’s service.

  165. JamesHRH

    Texas A&M just refused them on safety grounds.Smooth.

  166. JamesHRH

    No, but they live on the block.They are abusive / aggressive in tone & nature, violent in their speech and implying anarchy with their shaming approach to police reform (of which reform is needed).They should do way better.

  167. creative group

    JamesHRH:It has become apparent what false narrative you are attempting to promote. It will only work with the less educated. Not even a good try.http://www.businessinsider….

  168. creative group

    JamesHRH:Racism defined and applied by those who support and promote it will always be hard to apply. They are the ones applying the abhorrent act. Can’t ask a racist what is racism. Can’t ask an oppressor or tyrant how is oppression and tyranny applied.We have received your message and viewpoint loud and clear. No need to even elaborate further. We get your position.

  169. ShanaC

    he’s on record saying things he prefers jewish accounts to black ones.. All records of sleezy. I also don’t see him as successful, look at Atlantic City

  170. JamesHRH

    I think words are far more productive as shared meaning for positive communication but sadly, are far more often used as labels for identity politics, which is destroying the public discourse.

  171. SubstrateUndertow

    If you are right what does that imply about Trump’s political competency?

  172. JamesHRH

    I find that people who imply things typically have no proof of what they are implying and actually know that what they are implying cannot be supported.Please educate me on the false narrative I am promoting, When you do, it will be news to me and anyone who knows me for more than 5 minutes.Do better.

  173. JamesHRH

    https://www.merriam-webster…They are racists, they believe in racial superiority.That is racism, it unfairly disadvantages people of those races.That is prejudice, thinking those things about everyone in that race.Hard to have productive discourse, without common terms.Do better.

  174. JamesHRH

    Focus on the present.

  175. JamesHRH

    His Pops was a goober and Donald protected the family biz like a bulldog.I bet the case is interesting, as the Trumps likely did all kinds of things that were unsavoury.

  176. JamesHRH

    Breitbart is a shameless hustle.They absolutely know who their customer is and their defence is ‘just selling people what they want’. They are more anarchists than racists, editorially though.

  177. pwrserge

    Rob, the issue is cultural marxism. Most left wing capitalists are basically feeding the alligator hoping it will eat them last.My main problem is not condemning the KKK or Neo-Nazis, they deserve to be condemned for their ideas, but like all Americans they have an absolute right to assemble peacefully to express their views. The problem I have is sweeping ANTIFA’s unlawful and, quite frankly, terroristic actions under the rug in favor of beating on people who, in this case, didn’t actually break any laws. I may strongly disagree (to put it mildly) with their views, but so long as they assemble peacefully and don’t go out looking to hurt anyone, I will defend to the death their right to do so.My problem is that a scheduled, largely peaceful, and permitted event was turned into a riot by people who support the most vile ideology in human history. People see these people and seek to blame everything on them because they hate what they stand for. In America, we don’t do that. We blame the people actually responsible for the illegal acts.From what I see, Trump took exactly the right position. Both sides of the demonstration had large numbers of disgusting individuals in them. But of the two parties involved, only one showed up intending to break the law. Condemning one side without condemning the other is hypocrisy of the highest order. What’s worse, ignoring ANTIFA is de-facto support for their anarco-communist position which is responsible for levels of suffering the KKK and Nazis could only dream of inflicting.On a side note, I am the descendant of Holodomor survivors, (an event that killed almost as many people as the Nazi death camps) so seeing people ignore communists and give them de-facto support is about as disgusting to me as seeing a Nazis get popular media support would be to a descendant of Holocaust survivors.

  178. Lawrence Brass

    I don’t buy the discourse of government being victim of the press or unfairness of any kind.If you hold office you are under the scrutiny of the public, in these times at an excruciating level of detail. Those are the rules of the game and the fact that you in the US allow this public debate, damaging as it may be, is at the end a good thing for democracy.

  179. JamesHRH

    I think its inappropriate to bring strategic mistakes by the US military command or the CiC (valid or not) when questioning (asking for clarifications) of the beliefs of someone who served in active war theatres.Not a hill I need to die on, but….careless, I guess.

  180. SubstrateUndertow

    I get the dictionary defence but still it seem a little desperate!

  181. JamesHRH

    Words are powerful, negatively, as labels.They are more productive, as shared meaning for productive discourse.

  182. pwrserge

    The same argument can be made for Nazis and the KKK, it’s been far longer since either of the two groups hurt anyone. Communists are running death camps in China and North Korea as we speak. Objectively speaking, all three groups are vile and condemning all sides is the only logical answer. Pretending that ANTIFA is anything other than an anarco-communist terrorist organization is despicable.

  183. SubstrateUndertow

    There is a razor thin actualization barrier between prejudice and racism and that leaves you very little to hang your definitional defend hat on 🙂

  184. JamesHRH

    Removed, in repsoxne to removal of initial comment.

  185. JLM

    .Haha, Arnold, the guy is a freakin’ Canadian. Show some class.He does live in Texas and I suspect he has already joined the local KKK chapter.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  186. SubstrateUndertow

    Please stop your hurting yourself via ad-hominem attack. I generally remember your posts as being above such tactics. I’ll presume your just having a bad day :-)He may just not have felt like searching out your main post ?

  187. Pete Griffiths

    Just stop it.Contrary to explicit forum policy.

  188. sigmaalgebra

    Trump is fine. With his practical accomplishments for jobs, the economy, …, he will do fine.He beat the best 16 Republicans like “rented mules” (@JLM).Watch his most recent West Virginia rally — they totally love him.He beat Hillary.But, he has some enemies:(1) The Hillary Democrats are still totally pissed, want to obstruct. E.g., until a week or so ago, Schumer flatly refused to work with Trump.(2) Much of the media is bitterly anti-Trump. One reason is that they were for Obama and then Hillary so lost and are bitter about that. Next, they are about 90% Democrats. Next, they get paid for a lot of the dirt they push out, paid by big buck special interests (e.g., $1.5 T a year the global warming crowd gets), people who stand to make big bucks out of importing cheap goods and people, big bucks from medical insurance subsidies, etc.. Next they have their audience, heavily NYC, SF, and DC, and just continue to serve that audience.Trump is guaranteed to be in conflict: He is pushing, about as hard as he can, and that means conflict. A lot of pushing is needed: E.g., all our immigration laws were tossed out the window. In some cities, immigrants could do no crime, no matter how much in drugs, rape, violence. A lot of big buck, big box stores like importing cheap products. A lot of people, e.g., Jeff Flake, note that immigrants have done them a lot of good, the same good some earlier immigrants did Scarlett O’Hara before the war. So, Flake wants to start another civil war and, thus, hates Trump. The global warming scam people, the renewable energy people, etc. are totally against Trump. It goes on this way.To do what the country needs, Trump has to take on the media, a lot of entrenched, paid off politicians, the Democrats, and a lot of big special interests. He’s doing that,Any suggestion that he is doing anything wrong in any respect is just bitterly anti-Trump media propaganda. You should set that sewage aside.A good joke last night was, if Trump cured cancer, then the media would say that he created cancer so that he could get credit for curing it.It’s a war. The US is actually too close to violent civil war.

  189. JamesHRH

    Disagree.The (now deleted) shot required a response. And, the moderators are not armed w the authority to police pettiness and juvenile name calling.And, I am not engaging in ad hominem attack or name calling – it’s evidence based personal criticism based on a juvenile insult.If you open the can, you better be ready to eat your portion.

  190. ShanaC

    James, my post earlier about language…(besides, et could be real, the universe is huge, it is just unlikely they would come to earth)

  191. Lawrence Brass

    Yep. Precise and accurate.For me it is a social phenomenon. If one is interested in working towards understanding the causes and negative effects it has in society such as segregation, the first step is to recognize its language and the manifestations at a personal level. Then link that with the systems and structures it has already contaminated. I was surprised years ago when I faced my own thoughts when my children chose their partners. I discovered that pre-existing segregation of the circles I grew up in was conditioning my thoughts. I was intimately ashamed of myself.Those were my first steps towards embracing diversity, one of the best things I have done in my life.People often jump when confronted to racism, as if it is an insult, like here today.

  192. JamesHRH

    My counter argument would be that most prejudiced people have no actual authority and therefore are unable to systemically or structurally create racism.They are mostly ignorant of the commonalities between races as they have little exposure to other cultures and they often point at others to justify their state in life.Its not razor thin at all.

  193. ShanaC

    what’s a goober?

  194. ShanaC

    there was no unjustified shooting. there was a guy who associated with a bunch of alt-right and/or neo-nazi groups who ran over a young woman a year older than me.

  195. JamesHRH

    Totally socially incompetent person.

  196. JLM

    .Exactly why this assembly should never have been permitted.We have a right to assemble, but we have a duty to assemble in a peaceful manner.I would never have granted that permit.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  197. JLM

    .I read it. I would never have allowed that assembly.The prospect of open carry weapons at such an inflammatory assembly is madness.There are legitimate regulatory boundaries to be exerted upon 2nd Amendment issues — nobody should be able to carry a weapon into a bar, while intoxicated, to an inflammatory rally.In Texas, you cannot carry a weapon into a bar and you cannot carry a weapon while intoxicated.Texas A&M was petitioned to have a similar Confederate statue confrontation and they turned down the permit. Turned it down cold.We have more sense in Texas though we do love our guns.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  198. JamesHRH

    You wil have to provide a ton of evidence on that front.

  199. JamesHRH

    Bolding something isn’t an argument of any merit, neither is randomly stating you know things to be true.Come on S.

  200. JamesHRH

    This is a powerful comment.You would be well served to moderate your other comments and bring these types of comments to the forefront.

  201. ShanaC

    @jameshrh:disqus I don’t think this “cultural marxism” comment is all that powerful. We’re talking about people like Barthes or Adorno, right?If so, we’re talking about people who talk about reasons why we like to buy dish detergent that gets bubbly and foamy, even if the foaming doesn’t do anything to make your dishes cleaner, for example. (Yes, I took that example from Barthes). I would say given what many of them talk about when it comes to culture and how they talk about culture (and producing culture), it is less that they are feeding any alligator and more that they are sometimes cynical versions of Mystery Science Theater 3000.If you’ve seen MST3k, one of the things that makes it funny is it points out the ridiculous of what is in front of our noses – but some of the jokes now fall flat because time and cultural motifs change (which MST3k doesn’t handle).People like the Frankfurt School would be serious people who like to talk about the pointing out the ridiculousness of our lives and get involve in how jokes in something fall flat.So I fail to see how this is either good/bad or destroying capitalism. (In fact, I know that a large chunk of the growth curve for buzzfeed was fed on Frankfurt Type thinking, and that created jobs…)

  202. sigmaalgebra

    > there was no unjustified shooting.Good to hear. I’m sure you are much better informed on that stuff than I was or am.I suspect that there are a lot of Jewish people here. I don’t know what to say to Jews about Nazis.For a while I tried to understand WWII in Europe and, in particular Germany.There were a lot of forces mixed incongruously: Some of the good news was that Germany played one heck of a role, maybe far and away the leading role, in the progress of the STEM fields. And the influence extended over much of central Europe, e.g., to John von Neumann from, was it, Hungary, Einstein from Austria, maybe even Ulam from Poland. Every now and then England or the British Isles really hit grand slams — Newton, Maxwell — but Germany in the STEM fields Germany was one heck of a competitor.Medicine, too: At one time, a doctor saved my hearing in my left ear; he’d studied in Europe, maybe Vienna; so, to some extent my left ear owes something to the German tradition in medicine.Music? I’m totally taken with music. Germany dominated in music from before Bach to Richard Strauss. Since I couldn’t hope to carry around a piano or be nearly as lyrical on piano as on violin, I went for violin and, it happens, my better violin was made in Germany.I know; I know; in the STEM fields also have to count the British isles, France, and Russia. In music have to toss out the British isles and include Italy! Then in the economy, industrialization, military smarts and strength, again Germany long did well.So, I tried to see what the heck went wrong in Germany and, in particular, could it happen in the US? My guess is that if unusual external events A, B, and C all happen at the same time, then we could do much the same in the US.Then there’s the subject of Jews in Europe, Germany, and from the start of the Great Depression (started in the US). There’s a lot of history there; I’m not Jewish and don’t know that history even for a grade of D-.Then there is the subject of the Nazis: That history is likely much smaller than Jewish history.Sure, could trivialize the Nazis by saying that (1) Germany lost in WWI, (2) in the 1920s, the treaty of Versailles was really hard on Germany (I’m guessing because I have seen, have, and know no significant details), (3) the Great Depression was also really hard on Germany, so, (4) there was some political activity to get Germany on its feet again. So, some of that activity was nationalistic. So, we could trivialize and explain the Nazis that way, but there was much more, much more to the Nazis than even the riots in the streets, for Germany, WWII, Eastern Europe and Russia, and the Jews.So, a question is, could Nazis or something quite similar gain anywhere near that much power in the US? My guess, best I can do from what I studied, is, if external events A, B, C, and maybe D, occur, then yes. Otherwise, really no; the US Nazis will have to be no worse than trivial. Maybe that’s not much comfort.

  203. JamesHRH

    Not helpful.When you reach for ALL CAPS, you are never being effective.

  204. JamesHRH

    I saw Kill The Nazis too.

  205. JLM

    .I saw a lot of shitheads.Some of the shitheads were wearing Swastikas. Some of the shitheads were wearing robes. Some of the shitheads were wearing camo. Some of the shitheads were carrying weapons.The City of Charlottesville should never have granted those permits.None of the shitheads are even from Cville.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  206. markslater

    what’s your point?

  207. JamesHRH

    Same as yours I guess.Disgusting to see something like that.That was your point Mark?

  208. JLM

    .The SEVENTY-FIVE seems generous.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  209. pwrserge

    Of what? Chinese death camps for Falun Dafa practitioners who they kill for their organs? I’m pretty sure even Congress has had hearings on that one. If you’re referring to North Korea, I’m pretty sure numerous NGOs have documents on their behavior.As for the KKK and Neo-Nazis… I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say that nothing they are doing since the 1970s even remotely approaches either of the examples above.

  210. pwrserge

    As I said in my other comment, anarco-communists are about as much a red flag for me as Nazis for a Holocaust survivor. I find attempts to cover for them despicable in the extreme.

  211. pwrserge

    I find it hard to have a rational discussion with a person who dismisses mass genocide.

  212. JamesHRH

    Its a little vague. Communism is the perpetrator? or despots?

  213. Rob Underwood

    I don’t agree w/ most of his politics, but first hand I’ll tell you Bush 1 is a very chill, humble dude. Gin gimlet drinker. He’s beloved by virtually everyone in my hometown (Kennebunkport), left and right.

  214. pwrserge

    Given the 100% correlation between the two, I fail to see the practical difference. Not all despotic countries are run by communists, but all communist countries are run by despots. I can’t think of a single example to the contrary, going back to the publication of the communist manifesto. Communism relies on despotism to stay in power, pretending that one can exist without the other is the same as pretending that Nazism can exist without racism. At best, it’s a willfully ignorant argument that ignores piles of examples to the contrary.

  215. Lawrence Brass

    Struck me as such then, when I heard him. No word play or anything. If you start using nationalities, race as subjectives referring about people, wanting it or not it ends up being or sounding as xenophobic or racist language. Can be subtle, unintended.. but telling.Hypersensitive? Maybe. I pay attention to a lot of things, sometimes out of place or issue, I guess it is a deformation due to coding.Do you agree, my anglosaxon friend? 😉

  216. JamesHRH

    The HBO show 41 captures a dude that just did things, no fanfare, no showboating. Probably why he couldn’t get the 2nd term against Slick Willy – just couldn’t gin up the BS enough to match him.Show made me a fan.

  217. JamesHRH

    its a question, not an argument.

  218. JLM

    .Breadman, have you ever heard of a KKK, Nazi rally that was peaceful?If they didn’t have the sense to deny their permit, then they should have asked the Va NG to control a fenced area and limited the event to one hour.Home rule cities have enormous powers.None of these people were from Cville. Why would the political leadership of Cville care what these outside agitators wanted?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  219. JamesHRH

    There are flashes of a unique and powerful story that I think people need to hear. Use your negative experiences to influence people. And, I recall your personal history from prior exchanges……you are a person of significant willpower.Focus on the job of convincing others more than the venting.America needs people to change their habits.

  220. JLM

    .Uhhh, Charlie, the permit was taken out by BLM.Those arrested were wearing BLM tee shirts.Those arrested were taken into custody for extraordinary property damage including throwing barricades through hotel windows, smashing ground floor retail, starting car fires.The murderer was identified as a BLM member.Four BLM members were arrested with guns.Nobody was arrested for chanting “black lives matter.”They were arrested for violence.Own it. BLM is a violent domestic terror organization. You are a BLM funder and enabler. Own what you fund. They were not there learning how to code.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  221. Rob Underwood

    I literally ran into him (as in physically) when he was President at Colonial Pharmacy in the middle of Kennebunkport. He was shopping for something, I don’t recall what. I remember that whole bar scanner thing a year or so later where the press was saying he was out of touch because he hadn’t seen one and thinking to myself “No, it’s because we still have rotary phones in Maine and the Colonial Pharmacy sure doesn’t have bar scanners”. I was there last year and I still don’t think Colonial Pharmacy has scanners yet. The man is incredibly kind and helpful to anyone who asks, and the hand written notes, of which we have one at my parents’ home in Maine are of legend. He also was able to do 18 holes in record time as I recall.Incidentally, that kindness goes for his whole family, including my old Dead cover band mate Billy. It makes me angry the huge discrepancy between the price he paid and the one DJT did not, but I can’t be impartial about that situation at all.

  222. pwrserge

    It’s a rhetorical question. By seeking to answer the question, you reinforce the core argument.There is not a single example of a communist country that has not descended into despotism in short order. At that point, correlation is causation.As I said, I am open to counter-examples, but I have studied the subject extensively and can’t think of a single one.

  223. pwrserge

    Thanks James. I will try to keep that in mind.

  224. JamesHRH

    Love those stories.People forget that a lot of Old School cats were 100% awesome.Think of Bush 41 as compared to Fred Trump Sr. Yikes.

  225. LE

    I remember that whole bar scanner thing a year or so later where the press was saying he was out of touch because he hadn’t seen one and thinking to myself “No, it’s because we still have rotary phones in Maine and the Colonial Pharmacy sure doesn’t have bar scanners”. I was there last year and I still don’t think Colonial Pharmacy has scanners yet.I would say that someone who lives in Maine, if they don’t have what is generally in much of the rest of the country is probably out of touch, no? And Bush has lived in other places than Maine as well.And additionally there are things that you know and pickup just by interacting with the world, reading, watching, talking to other people if you are curious and not in some shell.The man is incredibly kind and helpful to anyone who asks, You are referring to Bush here? Of course he is going to be that way he is a public person. My mom saw Jay Leno in person and couldn’t shut up about how nice he was. We have been in elevators with celebrities and they are all super nice. You know what? They have to be. If they are not, word gets out. The way they are viewed is ‘their product’.What I said is not to say that Bush isn’t inherently a super guy. But he is a politician and/or in the pubic service so his baseline behavior is going to appear to be genuine. He isn’t going to bite the hand that feeds him.

  226. JamesHRH

    I don’t know that it is willfully ignorant or rhetorical. Its based in ignorance, but a lot of good questions are that way.I have never thought about the universality of the things you have stated about communism – I have no direct exposure to the eastern European or Asian versions.You should be less confrontational given that you have done your homework. So should I probably.

  227. JamesHRH

    He and Sasse look like the future.

  228. CJ

    That’s an excuse. White society always looks for any excuse not to use the word racism and that’s what frustrates minorities. If you can’t look at Breitbart and say that this is the very definition of a racist website then you’ll never see racism because you simply don’t want to.

  229. Rob Underwood

    LE, it was, what, 1991? I stand by my narrative – a person whose primary first hand shopping experience was in a small New England town. Presidents need to read a lot – it’s conceivable that “Top Shopping Technology of 1991” was not on the top of his list.My step brother was his caddy. Bush’s daughter, Doro, was a chambermaid for a summer at our family inn, the Breakwater — that speaks to both his and her character (she did not need the money). I waited on him and his family many times. I was in a band with his nephew. It’s more than a little insulting that you’d think I couldn’t differentiate between meeting someone in passing, as your mom did Jay Leno, and my experiences. I am not saying I “know” the man as a friend or family member would, and would never imagine he knew who I was (though he did give me a big hug at my college graduation in 1994), but I certainly spent enough time around him and his family to get a read. And nearly anyone from Kennebunkport, which is a very small town where everyone knows each other, would share similar stories. This isn’t being in an elevator.I share these experiences because I think it’s important to relate the character of other people who held the office than the current inhabitant, and the specific question in the thread was one of presidency and narcissism. I thought first hand knowledge might be valuable – I forgot that idle speculation seems to increasingly be preferred here over direct evidence and observation.

  230. LE

    I liked Bush, voted for Bush, and always thought he was a solid person and cut from the right bolt of cloth.Fwiw my mom had business dealings with Jay.

  231. JamesHRH

    Great post. Small towns are completely transparent, nowhere to hide.

  232. JamesHRH

    Well, here’s what I think a lot of people would find difficult with your comment (obviously, I do):- ‘white society’: no idea how you define that. Its superficial and identity based, which I have rejected as an approach to dealing with people my entire adult life. I don’t talk about Gays, Mexicans or Blacks, although I do say ‘ this young black dude did something so nice @ HEB today….. ‘ because, well, dude was young and black.- I will use the word racism when I see it. Fred Sr. ran apartment buildings in NYC in the 1970’s that were undoubtedly an example of harmful racism. He harmed people based on his personally held prejudices, his laziness and to his economic benefit ( his racial policies meant less apartment management oversight, so cost savings followed ). As I understand it, they settled and changed the practise. Score one for regulation and civil rights laws. BUT, sweeping generalizations like ‘always look for any excuse not to use the word racism’ are, well, examples of prejudices held by the speaker, CJ. I am a stickler about the definitions, because people know that ‘RACIST’ sticks and smears. Hate the widely accepted, evil practise of labelling people in order to shame / belittle / conquer them (see the post on Bush 41 & bar code scanners from Rob Underwood). Its a poison.- I have read extensively about Bannon ( Hollywood Reporter got great access, pre-WH ). He connects most strongly, philosophically, with Trump, at the corner of MakeADollar Street and DontCareWhatOthersThinkAboutHowTheDollarGetsMade Avenue. I stand by my comments that Breitbart is a soulless, cynical hustle. It is not a racist website, as the editorial content is very carefully crafted not to be racist. Provocative? Absolutely. Controversial? By design. Courting outliers in society and anarchist? Check and mate. But, they are too smart to publish racist materials. Bannon and Trump also connect at VerySmart Crescent and TotallyCommittedToTheJob Blvd. Racist posts could shut off the flow of dollar dollar bills and the job @ Breitbart is to collect dollar dollar bills.- And, the clincher, telling me that I am willfully blind to racism, for reasons you don’t list out, because I don’t agree with what you say. Hard to respect that comment – its unfounded slander (see above re: evil practise of labelling people without evidence).Do better.

  233. JLM

    .Bit unfair. George HW Bush came from money and had a great education (Yale). He was to the manor born.I liked GHW Bush. He was the youngest Navy pilot in WWII. Skin. In. The. Game. Stud.Fred Trump had a HS degree. When his father died when he was 12, he became a carpenter, learned to read plans, and built 20 homes by the time he was 21.He was an entrepreneur’s entrepreneur.The Trump’s are German. They posed as being Swedish because a lot of their tenants in Queens were Jewish.Fred Trump was arrested on Memorial Day 1927 for refusing to disperse when the KKK held a parade on Long Island. He was never charged. I am surprised nobody today brought up the Trump family’s “longstanding KKK affiliation.”Trump bad. Fred Trump very bad.America is a combination of the patrician and the commoner. Both of these men’s sons became President which says something good about America.Both of their sons were Vietnam Era draft dodgers though W flew for the Texas ANG. Flying jets is not chicken liver.Trump bad.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  234. JLM

    .County or country?I admit to not being up to date on my KKK rally schedule. So, you are arguing they are “peaceful” fellows?Are you suggesting they are just guys letting off a little steam? I know they are a construct of the Democrat Party, but are you really coming to their defense?Pick a side and stay on it, Bagelman.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  235. JamesHRH

    Fair enough.Thanks for the background on Fred Sr. I think when people talk about people of that generation, Bush 41 and Fred Sr are the types of achievers that stand out.One who is a bit bland but quite timeless, just a doer of epic proportions. The other quite colourful, self made and quickly an anachronism.

  236. JamesHRH

    I think the wording for most MSM reports is atrocious, unprofessional and completely biased journalism.Its good for the bottom line.Its top of mind: memo from James Damore (Googler who posited that there may be inherent gender gaps for tech and leadership) was consistently labeled ‘ screed ‘. That’s dog whistle 101.

  237. JLM

    .They did not spend a lot of time feeling sorry for themselves and playing the victim. They made something of every opportunity and themselves.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  238. PhilipSugar

    I am in no way defending but if you say “I also don’t see him as successful, look at Atlantic City” you then should not moderate this blog. Look at the amount of failures every single VC has.

  239. CJ

    and other hate groups Everyone respectable seems to be able to say Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists are evil. Full Stop. Except Donald Trump.Had he left off that phrase and ended it there with no follow-up yesterday the country would be trying to move on. Instead he came out and poured gas on a tenuous denial at best.So yeah, in hindsight, his position was very clear to me and everyone else. Especially when he doubled-down on it yesterday.

  240. k77ws

    Almost as clear as an expression as these fellas: “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking!” — Joe Biden, Vice President“I mean you’ve got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking guy.”— Joe Biden, Vice President“[Harry Reid] was wowed by Obama’s oratorical gifts and believed the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as a Obama — a ‘light-skinned’ African American with ‘no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.’” — Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, as quoted in the book Game Change

  241. k77ws

    And Obama eulogizing Robert Byrd, a racist and former ranking KKK member? All good, I guess?https://www.csmonitor.com/U

  242. ShanaC

    true, but he’s also mostly left the business of real estate outside of licensing for a reason but pretends he’s in it. That’s more of the problem.

  243. ShanaC

    He’s not a VC, he’s a real estate professional. A VC is a totally different type of investor with a totally different risk profile, a MUCH higher one. At least part of his business for a time was backed indirectly or directly by the strength of the US bond, aka the risk free rate, due to the interest rate’s direct correlation with real estate prices. VC is many degrees away from the bond outside of the “general health of the economy” At the same time, he lies about the level of his success of his real estate business. He went bankrupt at approximately the same time us Bond prices were at their highest (only reason I know this, my father signed for my parents mortgage, which very was a very unusual Adjustable rate type, because he accurately predicted the top of the market), a huge and basic type of mistake for someone doing the complex type of real estate investing that he is/was/always trained as a specialist in. To whit, if he never touched his father’s real estate business, and just invested in an index fund, he’d actually be 2x as wealthy as he reports now. That’s before the fact that he lost a lawsuit against a journalist who said he isn’t as wealthy as he claims.He’s someone who destroyed money (because if somethings value goes down, techically money is destroyed) in a much lower risk business setup than a VC

  244. sigmaalgebra

    Your writing is over my head in English!

  245. Lawrence Brass

    Just read what I posted and the first paragraph is a bit of a hieroglyph.Sorry about that. 🙂

  246. PhilipSugar

    Shana, anybody that has put money in AC is a Saint. Now does his other ventures make him a Sinner? We can discuss. All of his shows I can’t watch without puking in my mouth.

  247. JLM

    .Simply not true.The Trump Organization is the owner of substantial amounts of real estate (office, residential, clubs, golf courses, raw land) which it owns and manages in partnership with financial partners.It also engages in licensing arrangements wherein it provides its brand and marketing assistance. That is essentially what every hotel company in the world does.The TO owns tons of golf courses.To suggest the TO “…has left the business of real estate outside of licensing…” is simply untrue.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  248. PhilipSugar

    Everybody does that. Look at a VC’s portfolio. It is all separate corporations.Here is my point. I do not support the guy. I think he is a horses ass. I think he was fortunate with real estate and somehow got those TV shows which people that don’t know business think somehow what business is about.But when I say here is he got elected people say: You support him therefore you are a white supremacist. That pisses me off. Turns me off.When you say these assholes are what got him elected, these are his base what you are saying to 60mm people is that is how you view them. They already think the technology, media, and wall street elites scorn them and think they are stupid and don’t care one bit about them. They think they are the foundation of this country and their blood, sweat, and tears is what builds the foundations of all that we have. (which I agree with)I think a huge turning point in the election was when Hilliary made her “basket of deplorables” comment. People thought I know many Trump supporters…..they aren’t deplorable they are just like me. She thinks I’m deplorable? When people say these horrible people are his base, his base thinks, this is how the elite views me. Screw them, I’ll vote for him just to spite them.Congrats on your engagement.

  249. JLM

    .Bush league.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  250. Lawrence Brass

    You are right, most of it is junk and a waste of time. I prefer finding the sources myself or read articles written by people I trust and respect. I expect some bias in any author though.My opinions about Mr. T are based on watching and hearing his speeches and interviews.Just got a link to James Damor’s piece, to read. Thanks.

  251. JamesHRH

    Phil, would your current business stay out of bankruptcy if 3 of your top operations execs died in a helicopter crash?http://www.nytimes.com/1989…@shanac

  252. Lawrence Brass

    Well, you got me on that.Got a link to share to see for myself ?

  253. JamesHRH

    might give you Bush 43. Reagan, Clinton, Obama, no way.

  254. JLM

    .Unfortunately, I cannot cite a single instance wherein someone was a egotist and was NOT a narcissist. They are they same pew in the same church.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  255. k77ws

    Sure…whitehouse archives:https://obamawhitehouse.arc…”President Obama on the Loss of Senator Robert Byrd: “A Voice of Principle and Reason”Indeed.

  256. Pete Griffiths

    This would not be banning him for his views. It is for the offensive way he is promoting those views and insulting others.

  257. Cam MacRae

    The CCP aren’t really commies anymore, but they are avowed authoritarians despite their democratic centralism (or because of it, dunno). It gets weirder here every day.

  258. CJ

    I could make these points more eloquently, and I have in the past, but I’m honestly sick of catering to the majority’s prejudice. If a president failing to strenuously condemn nazis isn’t enough to get you to see the issues plaguing America and race then there isn’t much hope that my polite and flowery language would.If the equivocation of BLM with neo-Nazis isn’t enough to see how hard the majority will fight to ensure that black people seeking equality are demonized then my point by point explanations certainly won’t.So, on this point, if you can’t remove yourself from yourself and try and see through my eyes how America must look when a mob of white supremacists descend upon a town burning torches and chanting nazi slogans then I’m not sure how else I can help. If you don’t see the horrific and terrifying imagery of burning crosses and lynch mobs. If you don’t feel the innate inequality of a KKK rally treated like the epitome of freedom of speech while a BLM march to get the STATE to stop murdering black people simply because they’re black is treated like a riot then there is really nothing else I can add here.That’s my life. My reality. My existence. Innate inequality that is so embedded into societal constructs that no one but those being sacrificed at its altar even notice it anymore.

  259. JLM

    .”If you want peace, prepare for war.”Sister Ann would say, “See, you finally had an opportunity to apply all of your Latin studies.”JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  260. JLM

    .So, we have GOOD narcissists and BAD narcissists? Is that your argument?Very subtle.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  261. kidmercury

    citations from washington post, new york times, cnn, and fox news are rejected on grounds of being CIA fake news for decades.i find it hard to believe that someone can read that article and come to the conclusion that trump is an irredeemible racist. i don’t think that article makes trump seem racist.

  262. JLM

    .”and other hate groups.” <<< this is your beef?I think he was referring to those throwing the urine balloons and whacking people with clubs?They hate groups in your mind, CJ?I condemn the Nazis, KKK, white supracists, BLM, and Antifa plus unaffiliated shitheads of all other stripes.We seem to be in agreement except for BLM. That’s pretty damn close.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  263. PhilipSugar


  264. CJ

    Well BLM and Antifa – because Antifa is made-up. As a veteran, I’d think you’d be in agreement that being anti-fascist should be the default state and not something one has to actively represent.But it’s the false equivalency that it implies more than anything. Because once you equate a group that fights hate with a group that promotes it, you and I disagreeing on BLM becomes a much bigger issue.

  265. JLM

    .Don’t get “Antifa is made up” comment.Read this:http://www.dailywire.com/ne…A guy I went to school with (USMC Col Ret) is the head of DHS from Brownsville to El Paso. He is “in the know.”I did not realize that Antifa was designated as a “domestic terror organization” by the DHS during the Obama administration. Opened my eyes.As to BLM, my opposition is based on behavior like:”What do we want?Dead cops.When do we want them?Now.”I am totally fine with a public dialogue and public demonstrations about cops killing black citizens. I would prefer it be fact based rather than emotional. I would like it to be solution based.Chris Rock made a video which was marginally funny, but contains a lot of good advice. Let’s not engage in behavior which brings the cops into our presence. Not the high hurdles. When the cops show up, do not do anything which will get you shot — knowing the cops may have itchy trigger fingers. It’s survival at that point in time.I got stopped in Louisiana for speeding before dawn one morning right after there had been a killing. The cop made me get out of my SUV and put my hands on the hood. WTF?I asked him if that was SOP and he said it was. It was really scary. Standing in the dark on the side of the road with my hands on the hood. The cop was from Central Casting.I get why black men are scared of cops. I am too.I became very interested in the Charlotte BLM sponsored riots because #1 son lives there — two blocks from ground zero of the riots.Massive property damage. Violence. Murder. Weapons in the crowd. It was a freaking violent riot.Totally avoidable incident. Stupid behavior.I mourn the death of any man, but I want us to deal with facts, not emotions.The entire Charlottesville riot was avoidable. The Mayor should never have granted the permit. The rioters were not from Charlottesville.I would tell the Nazis, KKK, white supremacists — “Nope, y’all are not from Charlottesville. Go elsewhere. No permit.”I would have said: “Fuck off, shitheads.” But, hey, that’s just me.It was an unforced error made deadly by allowing cars in close proximity to rioters.In Texas, at Texas A&M University, same bunch of shitheads applied for a permit to have an event in the city and at the University — “No permit.”I went to VMI, which provided much of the Confederate officer corps in the Civil War. The VMI cadets fought at the Battle of New Market and took some Yankee guns at bayonet point. They lost 10 KIA.The Battle of New Market is commemorated on 15 May every year. Many of the dead cadets are buried next to a famous statue “Virginia Mourning Her Dead” which was sculpted by Sir Moses Ezechiel (first Jewish cadet of any American military academy in the US) who fought for VMI in the Battle of New Market.When I was there in the late 1960s, VMI admitted black cadets. The first black grads were guys I knew and knew well. Having grown up on integrated Army posts, it was nothing to me. I was an Army brat and not a Southerner by birth.They stopped playing Dixie at New Market when I was there. Now, they play Shenandoah. It started a shit storm and I was in a cadet leadership position. I opined in front of the entire Corps that if anything offended my Brother Rats then it was not something I could support.I could not give a shit if they take down every Confederate statue in the entire country and rename every street, school, bridge, and courthouse. Why?Cause I don’t want to do or support anything that is offensive to anybody. It is the simple mark of a gentleman. A gentleman makes others feel comfortable in his presence.We will never eliminate the truly crazy shitheads, but we can and will do better.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  266. k77ws

    Peace through strength. I’m a believer in this. -Cheers

  267. Lawrence Brass

    From yesterdays conversation, I get that the “R” word seems too harsh. It is difficult to discuss things if everything seems to be a taboo up there. Let’s store and lock the “R” word and never mention it again.Don’t read the article, watch the video and hear the man talking like a plantation owner. Prejudiced? Give me something.

  268. Antonio D'souza

    Ummm… what source would you consider *not* fake news, exactly!?

  269. Salt Shaker

    Having a large ego doesn’t make one a narcissist. There’s a reason they call it “public service.” Can only think of one guy who refers to practically everything in the first person: “my generals”, “my military” even “my African-American.” It’s like the earth, the moon and the sun. Quite a shit show yesterday at AVC. 99% civil.

  270. Dan Epstein

    Going deeper on Virginia gun laws (from a Charlottesville based attorney).http://www.snookandhaughey….

  271. JLM

    .Nothing “makes” one a narcissist, but as I indicated massive ego and narcissism are different sides of the same coin.I am related to two psychiatrists (I often think I am being “evaluated” when I go skiing with them) and they would give you a pretty hard thrashing on that subject.Trump — BAD.Obama used to refer to things in the exact same manner.It was a stupid topic for discussion, a predictable outcome, and a dopey post by Fred.Now, Salty, how does that make you …………….. feel? [Creepy shrink voice.]Just for the record — How many Nazis, KKK members, white supremacists, Antifa members, BLM members do you know or have you met?Most everybody the answer is “none.” We are all just regurgitating shit we saw on television or the interweb.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  272. kidmercury

    careless is probably the most pejorative word i could honestly use to describe it.

  273. Salt Shaker

    I live in Seattle, formerly NYC. One is liberal, the other liberal on steroids. (I’ll let you guess which is which.) If I drive an hour or so outside Seattle I’m sure I’ll find plenty of outlier groups. 2 hrs. out I’ll find even more. Same as you and ATX. Their numbers may still be relatively small, but that doesn’t diminish the danger. They feel empowered beyond their numbers and they’re unhinged. Violence will be random and statistically negligible (if you can say something like that about human life) but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be suppressed (w/ respect to violence, not free speech).

  274. JLM

    .Charlie, you’re dancing like an ice cube on a hot grill.Isn’t all of BLM just “some protestors”? Didn’t they march down the middle of the street chanting just that? Didn’t they own the Charlotte riots?Did anybody from BLM denounce the utterances? The riots?You already said Trump was a white supremacist and a racist, didn’t you? Why wouldn’t all of his followers be the same? That was what you said, right? Own it, don’t equivocate.You’re not owning your own words and actions. BLM is a domestic terror organization and you are an enabler and funder. Own it, my friend.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  275. JLM

    .The low hanging fruit solution was to deny outsiders — non-residents of Cville — a permit to do anything within the corporate limits of the city.Many times, we want to “solve” a specific problem when the real solution is to not allow the problem to erect its ugly face.As noted above, Texas A & M will avoid the issue by denying the permit.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  276. JLM

    .So, I take it from your comment that you don’t actually KNOW any Nazis, KKK, white supremacist, Antifa, BLM folk?They are all domestic terror organizations and they should be allowed their 1st Amendment rights and nothing more.No city should feel compelled to grant a permit — which is a license, not a right — to any organization which has a history or a likelihood of creating violence either directly or in response to their presence.I feel even stronger when, as in Cville, the shitheads were not even Cville residents.I would even embrace a prohibition of the presence of weapons amongst the citizenry in assemblies which would contain any potential for violence.All of Cville could have been prevented as Texas A & M has done by denying a similar permit request.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  277. k77ws

    A clever parsing of words! “not the organization”…so BLM gets the hall pass, and you believe those folks (advocating and cheering violence against police) are just BLM “fringe”. Hear you loud and clear. Yet you intimate that Trump and Bannon are racist and wonder out loud how many in White House read the Daily Stormer. I trust you have already condemned Joe Biden & Harry Reid for their past racist comments? And likewise you offered your robust condemnation of President Obama eulogizing former KKK ranking member and Democratic Senator Robert Byrd…a black president, calling a decades long racist and KKK member “a voice of principle and reason”? All good?

  278. k77ws

    And to be clear, I condone racist behavior from any side of the spectrum. It’s the double standard and selective outrage that really gets under my skin.

  279. JamesHRH

    Had to self police.instigating comment removed so I have have removed my comment.

  280. JamesHRH

    Another very powerful comment.But, no issue is 1 dimensional. The effect on your life is unimpeachable, but the causes (like most complex issues) usually have 3 or 4 core drivers.As I mentioned in another post, policing has become para-milatary and many officers have no business on the streets, due to their personal inability to do the job. Its a travesty of epic proportions.I have never equivocated BLM and Neo-Nazis. I don’t think BLM does anything that is useful though.White Supremacists aren’t the paragon of free speech, there is n paragon of free speech. There isn’t any grey zone in a principle. Its protected or its not, once you start picking and choosing, eventually everyone but the people in power get picked.Applying the principle is where you can be effective -as stated elsewhere, the Mayor of C’ville is incompetent,These people are cretins and the President has made a major error.My issue is with how we choose to handle these cretins, as they have been around forever, not only in America. Shining a light on them is a poor choice. Keeping an eye on them is better.Compromising free speech is a nuclear issue: if it blows up, it blows up everybody.

  281. Quantella Owens

    On topic, but tangential, I would like to recommend an article to you. I was published in the Smithsonian Travel Magazine:Paris issue. I bought the issue because I have always loved France and always wished I had been born there. You may find it by Google search rather than having to buy a back issue. The article references African Americans who left for France during the Civil Rights movement in the 1960’s. The most powerful comment for me was the AA mother who talked about how glad she was that her children did not grow up with a legacy of suspicion and hatred hanging over their heads. I hope that you find it and read it. Ultimately, it is up to us to find homes that will nourish and support us. And I personally hope to encourage as many of us as possible to leave ones that don’t asap.Talking about the same things over and over and banging our collective heads against the same damaging walls and barriers forever…seems to me to be both an impossible task and a completely useless one. I have no interest whatsoever in changing anyone’s opinion of me. I’m only interested in being able to live a free and happy life outside of a country where I am made conscious every minute of how my neighbors view me.

  282. Kirsten Lambertsen

    You’re extremely eloquent. The discussion here in these comments isn’t worthy of you, but thank you for contributing all the same.We white people are exhausting in our ability to distort reality in the face of truth. So few of us are willing to ask, ‘how can I make things better’ instead of decrying, ‘it’s not so bad and even if it is, it isn’t my fault.’ Even those of us who do try are usually waiting to be told when we’ve done enough — weekend warriors who want to go back to our delusions when it gets rough.I’ve seen Black people come and go from this comments section. None of us ask ourselves or each other why they don’t stick around for years the way so many of the white faces have. I suspect it’s because they don’t see any point and can’t afford to waste their energy here.Every white person in the U.S. should be required to watch “Eyes On The Prize” as soon as they’re old enough to understand it. Most of us couldn’t tolerate even one second of what Black people have faced every day of their lives. We don’t deserve the grace that so many Black people give us every day. We need to start trying to earn it.

  283. JamesHRH

    And if you were in the helicopter? CEO of casino biz perished in this accident.Admittedly, Trump was over-extended at the time. Young and aggressive.

  284. PhilipSugar

    He has employed a lot of people. Not supporting…..but how much taxes has he and his employees paid for their employment.Answer: Shit ton.

  285. Sudha Lakshmi

    He didn’t just lose money in a business with a much lower risk profile than VC, he lost money in a business that’s literally set up to win! I mean, how do you possibly lose money running a casino – where, as we all know, the house always wins?

  286. CJ

    Certainly not 1 dimensional, not asking for a conviction without a trial. I’m asking for the trial. I’m asking that society sit in the jury box and listen to the evidence. Take the place of the lawyers and question the facts. I’m asking society to participate in a conversation around racism in this country. I believe that if that happened, if society truly examined the issue openly and honestly then the problems could be fixed.Also, I 100% support freedom of speech. I think the neo-nazi’s had every right to gather on public land and shout the things that they shouted and, perversely, I would and will defend their right to say such as long as they aren’t inciting violence. However, I do not support one-way freedom of speech. I do not support the twisting of narratives and the lack of candor that occurs in reporting when a black group exercises freedom of speech and assembly and when a white group does it. You can say blame the media but the media is a part of society, and a big part having be codified into the Constitution. That’s what I mean about society needing to evaluate itself and its part in perpetuating racism.The problem I have with BLM is that white people intrinsically shy away from anything that singles out race. It’s a gut reflex. If I say ‘White People’ or ‘White Society’ or ‘White Guilt’ then I automatically lose a part of the audience. But it’s muther-effing true. White people created and perpetuate racism. They also think that if we don’t talk about it, it goes away. No, it festers. It creates the nation that we now have. Look, get comfortable with talking about it and we can really get rid of it. But unless we do, it’s here to stay and these conversations, the conversations that no one truly wants to have will continue to be had because we won’t go away.Finally, to quote NWA, F—- Tha Police. It’s a symptom both of the paramilitary evolution and the racist undertones of society. Remember, the police perform the action but society acquits them in the courtroom.

  287. JamesHRH

    Great stuff, thanks for taking the time.As for your last paragraph, the obvious answer is ‘OJ’.Policing is something that has to be fixed.

  288. fredwilson


  289. fredwilson

    Pls stop calling people “commies”. That kind of language just takes the discussion into the gutter. We take the high road here

  290. pwrserge

    I find the fact that people blithely dismiss the actions of a group responsible for the largest genocides in human history far more offensive.

  291. CJ

    OJ is the biggest symptom right? OJ’s acquittal was a testament to the way black people saw society at the time. The LA riots, Rodney King, the way the media portrayed OJ – who can forget the legendary cover where he was darkened several shades? It’s easy to find reasonable doubt when you think the whole damn thing is corrupt.Thank you for taking the time to debate with me/listen to me/provide counter points. I think we both moved closer to understanding and that makes it worth it.

  292. Pointsandfigures

    He’s not alone

  293. PhilipSugar

    Atlantic City is a shithole. If you want to give a prime example of how liberal government policies can totally screw up a city……that is your poster child. I mean you could not find a better one. On either side their are successful cities. More money has been thrown at that problem and…….it is a shithole.When Connecticut, PA, DE, and MD put in full blown casinos……BOOM you could gamble at a place and not be in a shithole.

  294. Pete Griffiths

    What is so surprising about that?For a fascinating study of the often positive impact of mental illness on leadership I recommend “A First Rate Madness: Uncovering the links between leadership and mental illness” by Nassir Ghaemi.Such leaders as Churchill, Lincoln, King, FD Roosevelt are studied and more specifically the ways they benefited from their well documented mental illnesses. Hitler is also studied along with his mental illness. I think we can agree that Lincoln had ‘good’ mental illness and Hitler ‘bad’ mental illness.

  295. Pete Griffiths

    Yes we do.Nothing surprising about that.

  296. JamesHRH

    Yes.’Not guilty’ equalled ” F*(K YOU!!! “Only wish it has been heard more clearly. I do like the Dalls PD Chief who said ‘If you do not like how we are doing the job, sign up and makes us better.’ That’s the answer.I feel the same way about our interaction.I have started 2 unsuccessful startups and worked in more than 20 others as a accelerator / turnaround exec. Serious about providing any counsel, advice or input that you might be interested in.I am industry agnostic – startups are a process and a checklist, its just a matter of achieving the milestones on limited resources.

  297. JamesHRH

    I agree. People do not communicate effectively when the framework of their world view is being shattered.There is no doubt they courted these votes in counties they targeted as key to Electoral College victory.I do not think that makes them racist, just amoral and cynical or, and some people would applaud this, willing to do what it takes to win.I think they have miscalculated here. Governing and campaigning are different, need different people in charge and different attitude / strategies / tactics.

  298. ShanaC

    No one here is saying Stalin didn’t kill massive amounts of people, and was a very immoral, bad person who killed millions of his own people, irrespective of the ethnic groups they came from in the USSR. We are saying that most people who are left of center (whether barely moderately so because they are very centrist or extremely so, or somewhere in between) are not terrorist thugs, at least for those who comment on this site. They just view policy positions differently than you when it comes to how to solve problems the US is facing.People are saying it is problematic that you consider them Stalin-esque if their ideas are to the left of yours (or don’t really agree), they feel insulted that you aren’t listening to them and that you seem to not care that they care about the same problems the US is facing that you probably do.Having competition of ideas isn’t necessarily bad either. Creativity comes from this competition and from mish-mashing them together

  299. ShanaC

    I would tell the Nazis, KKK, white supremacists — “Nope, y’all are not from Charlottesville. Go elsewhere. No permit.”The organizer WAS FROM Charlottesville. What then?

  300. ShanaC

    he looks comfy

  301. Lawrence Brass

    the dog?….. or Fred? 🙂

  302. Amar


  303. JLM

    .New rule: no commentary on day old stuff.Too busy. Sorry.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  304. JLM

    .Jason Kessler is a UVA grad, strap hanger who was involved with Occupy in an earlier incarnation. He was also the instigator of the May event which featured a tiki torch observance. He had a run in with a black council member. Just an agitator.The Nazis, the KKK folks were “invited” by him. Charlottesville doesn’t have a Nazi, KKK, Antifa, or BLM chapter.So — “Nope, y’all are not from Charlottesville. Go elsewhere. No permit.” Still works for me.Remember, I am trying to find a way to avoid violence.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

  305. ShanaC

    I’m reminded of my year in Israel in this regard because of this brief talmud section in Bava BatraThe Gemara resumes its analysis of the mishna, which taught that one must reside in a place for twelve months in order to be considered a resident for the purposes of issues such as paying taxes. But if he bought himself a residence in the city, he is immediately considered like one of the people of the city. The Gemara comments: The mishna is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, as it is taught in a baraita that Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: If he bought any amount of land in the city, and not necessarily a residence, he is immediately considered like one of the people of the city.It then goes on to talk about conflicting definitions of residency, and they do come to a conclusionOf note: One’s opinions don’t matter, that one is a recent resident may not matter past a certain date (or if they own property) – they aim for consistency in a definition.I don’t like Kessler right now. But if he’s established legal residency in Charlottesville, for the sake of consistency, I’d call him a resident and say he is “from Charlottesville,” at least for the sake of petitioning the local government. Otherwise, my other option is that residency of all sorts ends up in the “No True Scotsman” sort of arguments.

  306. ShanaC

    both, sinking into a couch and music headphones

  307. Lawrence Brass

    yes, simple things in life are the best.cheers

  308. ShanaC

    why no bagels?

  309. Kirsten Lambertsen

    Points for mention of MST3k 😀

  310. ShanaC

    Extra Points for using it correctly and accurately describing the Frankfurt School using it?

  311. Kirsten Lambertsen

    Well, I’m not of your calibre there, lady — totally unqualified to comment. I just was an MST3k *fanatic* for the entire run. Getting ready to start showing it to my kids.

  312. Andy_Kreiss

    I have no idea what youre trying say,moron.

  313. Pete Griffiths


  314. fredwilson

    i’m deleting this comment Bullelephant and if you continue to behave this way, i’m going to ban you. pls follow our policy or don’t come by here.

  315. ShanaC

    I challenge you to make amazing bagels west of the hudson

  316. PhilipSugar

    Mmmmm. When Connecticut, PA, DE, and MD decided that they would allow gambling after seeing how many of their citizens were going to NJ. Seriously……do you know how much it costs to run a casino? How much it costs to build (tons of skilled employees) How much it costs to run? (tons of skilled employees)

  317. PhilipSugar

    I’ll give you a hint. It is a order of magnitude more than a VC investment. Two orders at least to start and at least one order to run. If you think running a casino is easy you don’t know what you don’t know. I do know. Been in the industry 25 years. It is really hard.

  318. Sudha Lakshmi

    I hadn’t realized that casinos were hard to run – I’ll certainly take the word of someone who’s been in that industry for 25 years on that! My more basic point is that casinos are at least a proven business model, so if you run one competently, you’re likely to make money. But early-stage VCs, especially the good ones, are in the business of making investments in companies with new and still unproven business models. That’s what elevates their risk profile – which I think is the point Shana was also making.

  319. PhilipSugar

    A quarter of a Bilion to two billion to start. Government approval. Headcount? Mandaly bay has 250 security guards actually working on a Tuesday. Gambling drinking??? What could go wrong??People staying in rooms after doing things all night they don’t normally do????Proven??? A jursistion next to you lowers taxes which go as high as 50%?????You are done

  320. fredwilson

    pls don’t use that sort of language here. i am going to delete this comment. if you continue to use that sort of language here, i will ban you from this community.

  321. CJ

    Thank you Kirsten! Typically I don’t have these conversations, especially here but I’m trying to offer that point of view where it’s often not prevalent, hopeful of understanding but, if not, at least reporting. JamesHRH and I had a pretty good conversation out of it. Started out a bit tense and terse and ended with a lot more understanding than either of us thought at the start. I call that a win and I’m glad I took the time.We white people are exhausting in our ability to distort reality in the face of truth. So few of us are willing to ask, ‘how can I make things better’ instead of decrying, ‘it’s not so bad and even if it is, it isn’t my fault.’ Even those of us who do try are usually waiting to be told when we’ve done enough — weekend warriors who want to go back to our delusions when it gets rough.This is the biggest issue IMO. White people are looking for black people to own the discussion and ultimately the deliverable on race in this country but we don’t have any of the power around that topic. I can’t make society change, I simply lack the power. That’s why we need white people, in their function as the majority, to engage in the dialog and own the issue in order for it to be fixed. Not a lot of buyin there at the moment. Notice how even the dialog around Virginia has shifted from racism to statues. That’s what happens every single time.No one wants to talk about it. The discussion ultimately ends with, ‘that’s really sad’ or ‘there is no issue’ and there is a lot more to it than either of those things project. In any case, I’m glad that you get it. 🙂 Hopefully we can make change here one voice at a time.

  322. kidmercury

    I listed a small list of sources that are immediately blacklisted. Are you suggesting there are no other sources and that the list offered is the totality of media? If not, feel free to pick any source not previously cited.

  323. Antonio D'souza

    Any source not on that list? You mean, like Mother Jones?

  324. kidmercury

    sure, you can cite mother jones, since as far as i know they don’t have a history of ***intending*** to deceive the american people, like nyt and wash po have as illustrated via operation mockingbird. in my opinion that at least gives mother jones the right to be heard (unlike those that have intended to deceive).