A Nightmare
I don’t know why we call them Dreamers. Because they get to pursue the American Dream? Don’t we all?
These kids, or adults as many are now, were brought to America by their parents and have lived here for most of it.
That we would even think that they should not be here is abhorrent to me.
We can talk about their parents, who came to the US illegally, but we should not be talking about their kids.
These people did nothing wrong, broke no laws.
As my partner Albert, an immigrant, wrote on his blog yesterday:
The blame for this situation though rests with Congress and past Presidents who have failed to make any meaningful progress on immigration reform. Right now, it is worth remembering now that the DREAM act has been around for 16 years. There have been multiple attempts to pass it with at varying times support in the House and Senate, but never the two at the same time, including a bipartisan filibuster that included 8 Democrats. The opposition by Democrats often arose because they wanted comprehensive immigration reform or nothing.
We have our elected officials to blame for not addressing this issue and fixing it a long time ago.
I for one expect them to fix it, to put the other immigration issues aside, which they never seem to be able to do, and address this one.
This is about our morality, our decency, our humanity.
Fix it.
Comments (Archived):
Fred–I’ve struggled to find balance with life and rage over politics and to some degree have succeeded.This one threw me over the edge.Second generation American here, raised with my grandfather as the epitome of manhood and what it meant to be an American. Who never learned to read, labored on a sewing machine for decades to give his family a chance and so loved this country.Haven’t quite figured out how to make this anger useful.
there are more of us, but they are more organized.early crowdfunding model — the statue of liberty http://sofii.org/case-study…
Andy – I think your Grandfather was a “legal” immigrant, correct? So he came here legally, became a citizen and paid his taxes like everyone else? That is the American dream.Trying to stem the tide of illegal immigration is totally different. Most legal immigrants (like my in-laws) do not support “illegal” immigration. It is simply is not fair. They waited in like and did their work. That is why they are successful.Do you not make that distinction? Not sure why you are so angry?
The problem I have with hard stances against *illegal* immigration is that it seems to be correlated with an attitude against expanding *legal* immigration as well.I haven’t seen a politician campaign hard against illegal immigrants and then fight to expand legal immigration once in office.This country needs more immigration, much MUCH more of it. It’s the best deal this country has going. Working age people who are energetic and willing to take risks and work hard? We can never have enough of those people. Anyone who doesn’t see how they help us needs to re-take Econ 101. Not to mention the country-stabilizing benefits – remittances from immigrants to families back home dwarfs foreign aid and is far far more effective (and cheaper to US taxpayers). And setting aside the morality of granting people the freedom to live and work where they choose.
I see your point and I do agree that these two issues are often conflated.However, I do challenge your assumption that we need “much more” immigration. How much? I have seen several pro-immigration lawyers on TV pressed for this number – and they have no answer. Certainly with a labor-force participation rate at near historic lows. (i.e. US citizens are not able to find work), one would question the need to bring in more immigrants? It is a well known fact that aggressive immigration of lower skilled workers drives down wages.
Reposting a comment from a couple days ago:”I was home in Kennebunkport last week and I went out to dinner with my aunt who used to own an inn in town and was a member and then president of the Rotary.While we were at dinner the restaurant owner, a woman in her 20s, came up to our table and started talking with us. She was bemoaning that they could not find any dishwashers and that she (the owner) was now having to do all the dishwashing on top of managing the restaurant.After the owner left us my aunt explained that over the last 10-15 years labor in Kennebunkport’s restaurants and hotels has shifted from primarily young people (i.e., a high school and college job) to seasonal immigrants from the Caribbean, especially from Jamaica.This year, few to none of the people who come to Kennebunkport from the Caribbean each summer to work could get seasonal work visas.She further explained that due this shortage of available labor some of the restaurants have curtailed their hours or only are opening 4-5 days during the summer, peak season. Even with offering higher wages local people, including young people, don’t seem to want to wait tables, change beds. or wash dishes — all jobs that literally everyone did growing up (including, incidentally, the Bush children, who also did summer jobs like these at Kennebunkport inns).I had heard about and read such stories before but it really struck me to see my home town and the industry that supports it (tourism) suffering economically (and not opening 2-3 nights is a big deal over the course of the summer) only because of lack of labor.”
Hmm. I read this the other day but did not make the connection. True here in Houston, where Indian women dominate the retail jobs in malls that used to be primarily white women.Point taken. (But I still want them here legally!)
The fish plants in Cap Pele New Brunswick , near out cottage, are staffed by Temp Foreign Workers from Jamaica.Locals won’t do that tough job anymore.
they are most likely there legally. Most Indian immigration to the US is legal – and probably retail jobs don’t violate their spouse’s visa.
Yes. Our area is at least 30% Indian – all legal. This is a pretty affluent suburb. Incredibly diverse at every level.
15 years ago, a British expat told my wife that Calgary, Canada reminded him of Dubai, UAE.Huh?Locals don’t get their hands dirty.He was bang, bang on.I think it might actually be a natural, universal phenomenon.
See my other comments today about “doing” (and not doing) re Americans and America.
That’s part of what made me think of it.
So true
Yep. I grew up in agriculture – same story there. Hard to find local high school kids to work as cowhands for the summer. I loved it, but none of my friends were interested. Riding horses sounded nice, but not if they also had to dig post holes, string barbed wire fences, and buck hay bales.
Yes yes ys
And that is sad. And says something about why we should eliminate entitlements
“I do challenge your assumption that we need “much more” immigration. How much?”>>For the right kind of immigrant, who is moral and law-abiding, who is willing to work hard and take career risks for the chance to come here and start businesses (or work hard supporting local people who do), I don’t think we can ever have enough of them. I wouldn’t put a cap on such immigrants. These immigrants are net assets, not liabilities.”It is a well known fact that aggressive immigration of lower skilled workers drives down wages.” >> I disagree with how much of a well known fact that is. The economic research I’ve seen shows a temporary, slight negative impact on SOME people (high school dropouts) and a positive impact on everyone else. On balance the economy does better.It’s interesting to me that the same people who will be the most upset when the US economy falls into second place behind a country whose primary advantage is that they have a lot of people (China), are unwilling to accept the only thing that can prevent it from happening (allowing lots and lots of people to immigrate into the US and accelerate our economy.)
@mlbar:disqus Correlating your opinions because of perceived correlation of the opposite CREATES actual correlation of both. This is the problem with hyper-partisanship. You may not realize it but by correlating your stances on pro-illegal immigration and pro-legal immigration, you are mathematically correlating the opposite as well (by removing a non-correlated example).
Guess I should re-phrase. I think that many people talk about illegal immigration, when in reality they’re against any kind of immigration (other than their own family’s, historically), because politically it’s safer to argue against illegal immigrants than all immigrants (or immigrants that come from different cultures).The energy that people spend protesting illegal immigration seems disproportionate to the question of whether a person arrived through proper channels or not. You don’t see people marching against “illegal businesses” that weren’t established through proper bureaucratic channels. Proper compliance with bureaucratic processes isn’t really something that people get that riled up about. The legality of the process by which immigrants arrived seems less important than the fact that they are here.For that reason, clamping down on illegal immigration seems to be a stalking horse most of the time, where the real motivation is to restrict immigration of all kinds to just a trickle.
Sadly DJ, Mr. Waldstein may have you blocked and will not be able to contribute to this compelling discussion because of his desire to curate his AVC experience.
Could be. I am assuming that if someone blocks you then you cannot respond to them. Free country.
You can post to their comments, but they just see ‘Blocked User’ and the content is redacted, I believe.
My grandfather was legal because he was born here. His father was not legal.
During my research on my family, I found out that my (potential?*) great grandfather came here illegally from Lithuania and continued to live here successfully. He also was arrested several times for sneaking in other people illegally from Lithuania.*due to the fact that he was here illegally, it’s hard to find documentation evidence. I was only able to find out info due to his arrest records. But most likely, I have the correct guy.
I was raised with my grandfather at one end of the kitchen table, my father at the other.That is where my sense of this country, what is the right thing to do and how to address why what needs to be done in an ethical manner is always the best way.The fine edge of ‘if that then this’ is not what this is about at all.Disrupting these peoples lives as political pawns is really both incomprehensible and unacceptable.
What do you have to say about their parents’ decision to break the rules?Using the rationale that most parents move to America for their children, they are hitting the jackpot after not playing by the rules.Its the toughest of ethical dilemmas.
Broken System, and that many people here’s family[1] would not have made it to the US if they had to comply with the current immigration system or the system people want to put in place which effectively further closes the US to real immigration.It becomes a much less tough ethical dilemma when you realize in a different time of the US, it could have been you being banned for really stupid reasons had politics swung certain ways.[1]Including Fred’s. If you look at back posts, he mentioned his mother’s shnitzel [2] and the fact he was raised catholic- aka he’s from some sort of German Catholic family that I would bet good money ancestors’ immigrated to the US somewhere between 1840-1890 – despite pressure from groups like the Know-Nothings Had the US bent to the kind of immigration pressure the Know-Nothings wanted and the increased regulations/outright banning of Catholic immigration, there is no way we would have Fred today.[2] I remember this because I remember thinking his family was weird for eating veal schnitzel and not chicken schnitzel, not realizing that veal schnitzel is super uncommon among Ashkenazi Jewish people.
I think I get your point.I don’t think that history applies though – policy is what policy is at any given time, but the principle of upholding the rule of law does not change over time.So, sure, immigration policy was super dumb at times and current proposals are also likely wrong headed ( immigrants create a more vibrant economy, if done properly, I think.)I still think the ethical dilemma remains – their parents have hit the jackpot by cheating.The best / most interesting idea I have seeen is that their children pay higher taxes as a penalty, which at least addresses the idea of a penalty for their parents’ misdeeds.
I think you missed it.I still think the ethical dilemma remains – their parents have hit the jackpot by cheating.This is an ethical dilema only after one accepts certain principles about nation-states, groups of people, and morality being interlinked.The whole point of the story I told is to point out that this link is not implicitly clear at all – and that the real ethical question is how should we and when should we divide people into groups and privilege some over others – and that if those privileges make sense in context.Or more concretely, why should people who make arguments like yours accept that their own family members should be excluded from their argument, even though the reasoning why non-family members in very similar situations should mean their own family should be excluded. Beyond that someone is related, on a basic human being level, said ancestors and their situation wasn’t that special, so why should they be privileged, ethically speaking?I’m not a believer in some are more human than others – broadly speaking, it doesn’t hold up as an argument, and that is at its core the most important razor to answer your question about ethical or not.
I think we have completely different framewokrs.Morality not linked to anything.I accept nation states – its the current reality.Ethics is applicstion of rules consistently, in relatively constrained time periods ( years not decades for nation states ).Context is not my top priority – it does not scale.
While some parts of politics are ‘winning for the sake of winning’ the other part of politics is doing what people who vote for you expect you to do because they elected you under those conditions. These are your ‘customers’.Let’s say I am 100% pro choice IRL. But in order to get elected I must appear to be against abortion. I feel that I can do more good by doing what my voters want me to do vs. what I really believe myself. It would make perfect sense if I departed from what I thought and did what the people who elected me wanted, right? After all if I am not elected I can’t do anything. Simplistically that is a large part of politics. If you don’t have a seat at the table you can’t do anything at all and you have no voice and no ability. This is a bedrock principle of why I think those who abandon serving in some capacity in the new admin are making a mistake by doing so. Better to be ‘close to the enemy’ than distant and ignored.
For Trump, they are not pawns at all. Instead, the US Constitution says that the POTUS must enforce the laws. Well, the immigration laws say that illegal immigrants must leave, and the Constitution says that Trump has to throw them out. Trump is facing that reality. As a solution, he is giving the DACA people six months of no worries. Then he is giving Congress the same six months to pass a bill to change the law. No pawns involved.
Does anyone here know when immigration laws were first enacted? (serious question, not snark.)Some of my ancestors came here and fomented revolution/genocide…so the notion of whether they came here legally or not is murky. (ok, so that’s a little snarky.)
First major immigration laws were post civil war, supreme court determined it was a federal issue not state, and the first “class” of people blocked in mass were Chinese laborers, who ironically were taking away jobs because of lower wages. Truly a case of what is old is new again.
Thank you!
That’s amazing.
current system we have is post ww2 because of a bunch of weird compromises made. The first real immigration laws were around the Civil War, and a lot of issues behind them were sparked by groups like the Know-Nothings.https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…You can see elements of this history in the last Budweiser Super-Bowl ad, which accurately portrayed anti-German immigration senteminet during the period as part of the fictionalization of how Adolphus Busch came to the US and met Anheuser. While the actual “how they met” part is fictional, the scenes of him getting yelled at are most likely true, since in 1957 there were already moves to ban Catholics from coming to the US.https://youtu.be/HtBZvl7dIu…http://www.npr.org/sections…
That’s fairly common, of 19th century (and even into the early 20th century) immigration believe it or not. One of my great-grandfather’s murdered a Cossak to avoid the draft/getting murdered by the Cossak as part of the drafting process. I’m unsure, knowing this, if he came here legally as a result.But he did build a business here (and never killed anyone again)Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steve Bannon’s great(x) grandfather, Laurence/Lawrence John Bannon, came here illegally, because of the Irish Potato famine. You can find his marriage certificate in Dublin, his listing on the draft for the Civil War, Census records, but he doesn’t have a boat crossing record that I can find.legality wasn’t a huge issue at the time outside of the Know-Nothings to the Charles Limburgh type folk. And it mostly stopped being an issue after ww2 (outside of communism). Now it is an issue again, but what do we have again – people who sound like Know-Nothings and Father Coughlin. And yet in the end, we got rid of them, because we saw them as unAmerican.History rhymes, and people should be aware of its rhythms.
Who never learned to read, labored on a sewing machine for decades to give his family a chance and so loved this country.I am not sure of the reason for this comparison or illustration unless you are saying he sneaked in and I am almost 100% certain he didn’t and that he came here legally as was encourage or allowed at that time.My father (and my grandmother) came here through legal immigration. In the case of my uncle I have a letter where my parents had to vouch to take care of my uncle if he didn’t keep his job (which I think was a condition of being allowed to come here). My father lived with a family here when he arrived as well. They sponsored him.That was legal immigration with all the restrictions in place to insure that the system wasn’t taken advantage of. And back when my father and my grandparents (mother’s side) came here the US was a vastly different place than it is now.The thing that has to be remembered is this. If given the chance the US would easily be overrun with people who want to live here because the conditions in their country are so bad. So there has to be restrictions on it we can’t simply allow people to come in just because they want to be here or because there is no opportunity in their country.That said read my other comment as far as why I argued the children should be allowed to stay here. (Haven’t read @JLM reply yet..)http://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…But even with my comment (in favor) this is a slipperly slope for sure. It means we setup a system where parents are encouraged to sneak across the border in a selfless act to better their children’s future. That simply isn’t workable both legally and logistically.
It’s not slippery at all, or moral, or subtle at all. Instead, there is a 900 pound gorilla in the room, and all we are talking about are a few fleas jumping around. To find the gorilla, do the usual — follow the money. The gorilla very much, with big bucks involved, wants cheap labor. And with the gorilla is big political power that wants lots of immigrants as Democrat voters.All the tears of Chucky Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are just play acting.Morality? Chucky and Nancy want to put US citizens out of work and override their votes.
That didn’t exist for the vast majority of my ancestors on my father’s side. In 1881 (which is the earliest Carp in the US), they weren’t required to even know how to read, since the act preventing the illterate from coming didn’t exist until 1917. They were tailors and fruit peddlers, and they eventually built a huge produce business – but I wouldn’t be shocked if someone told me they learned to read on the way.i suspect for a large chunk of people on this site stories like mine are true. Many parts of their story were very typical of the period.
Dreamers are immigrants, not born here. If you are born here, you are a citizen, that is a different immigrant family problem.Dreamers have to have arrived before 2007 and had to have been younger than 16. So, all they have known is living in the US, and certainly as adults, they have known only being here as an American.
Vox did a nice write up about DACA a week ago:https://www.vox.com/policy-…
Yup. Fixed it. Wrote that before I had my coffee
Coffee is a good thing.
I think we should get the basic facts right before advocating for solutions. DACA participants were NOT born here.Obama’s sloppy arrogance compounded the errors of prior administrations going back to Reagan. Executive orders to ignore law are simply a terrible foundation for decisions as meaningful as immigration. A lazy maneuver.The acronym itself is DEFERRED ACTION. Well, Obama deferred it until he was gone, and now it’s time for action. Well done.Trump is taking it head on–forcing this isssue upon Congress, where it belongs. The only place where a Constitutional solution can be resolved.His opening move may be deemed “cruel” by the echo class, but here we are– actually dealing with a problem publicly.You’ll see similarities with the North Korea and national debt problems being addressed. It’s not easy being the first grownup in the room in a generation.
Yup. Fixed it
Good deal. I don’t think it changed the crux of your point at all
Should not post before this https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Andy makes a good point which leads to a larger one. Obama did an executive order knowing full well the Republicans would do nothing on this issue because of politics. He said at the time it was a “patch”. Article one of the Constitution puts this responsibility squarely in Congress lap. Trump gave them 6 months to act.The broader point is that many states (My own, Illinois is heavily gerrymandered) are so gerrymandered we don’t have competitive elections anymore. Hence, we get echo chambers. There is no incentive for one side to even talk to the other side knowing they are totally secure in their re-election.Hyper-competition is good. It’s what built America. We ought to embrace it.
Can’t understand what competition and free markets have to do with this.
I said it’s a broader point. If I am a far right wing congressman, and you are a far left wing one-and our districts are totally gerrymandered so we don’t have a worry about getting re-elected unless we retire or royally screw up-do we have an incentive to try and work together or an incentive to attack each other and win?People say Congress doesn’t work. They might be right, but the core problem is gerrymandering. No competitive elections means no work together.
Thanks for the explanation.The feels like a stretch in the wrong direction to me.We think of this differently.
You are 100% on the money.Gerrymandering’s biggest evil is that it empowers extremists in both parties because they can hijack a primary process with a small, ultra motivated, whacky base of voters.The biggest battle in winning many seats in Congress is the primary battle. That will always be the case, but the % of seats that are Primary Driven is a good indicator of the health of the system.Great comment.
yes, this is the biggest issue. There is a case that is coming up to the Supreme court in the fall that can be a game changer.Politics is about incentives. Just as in business. get the incentives right, and people always fall in line.
Agree but you left out the other parts which are term limits, and not being able to profit in any from government after you leave.If you did all three…..things would change drastically.
We agree on term limits. Term limits don’t matter in a gerrymandered district. Agree on not being able to profit as well. Or, pay a 50% top line revenue tax if you lobby-no write offs against the income.
Can you imagine if we started a massive, bi-partisan, grass roots organization called “TermLimits.org”? Anyone who did not bow out after 3 terms gets booted by the voters. No exceptions. This single act would change politics for the good forever. (Edit: Holy Crap – that link actually points to a real organization!)It is possible, but would require a voter turnout (ala Trump) that overcame the entrenched money.
It should have a sister movement called “www.nofoundations.org”.
Coffee is very powerful. Actions by big US corps are more powerful.“There is nothing that we will be pushing on more strongly for Congress to act on,” Brad Smith, Microsoft’s president and chief legal officer, said on interview with NPR yesterday (Sept. 5) after Trump punted to the legislature. “We put a stake in the ground. We care about a tax reform bill. The entire business community cares about a tax reform. And yet it is very clear today a tax reform bill needs to be set aside until the DREAMers are taken care of. They have a deadline that expires in six months. Tax reform can wait.”http://money.cnn.com/2017/0…https://qz.com/1070742/drea…
Universal rule.
Gee, I thought that you were illustrating Poincaré recurrence from ergodic theory! Intuitively an ergodic process is one that moves forward in time but says the same in some sense. Well, as stir the coffee, the volume of the cream and that of the coffee remain the same. So, ergodic theory via Poincaré can show that if keep stirring the coffee, eventually the cream will return as closely as you please to where it was when you first poured it into the coffee, e.g., as in the picture.IIRC Poincaré gave an estimate for how long would have to stir — it was long!Ergodic is only a joke for stirring coffee but otherwise is one of the more important assumptions in stochastic processes, e.g., in some class notes I have and also inPatrick Billingsley, Ergodic Theory and Information, John Wiley and Sons, New York.P. R. Halmos, Lectures on Ergodic Theory, The Mathematical Society of Japan.
Have you been following this? Democracy may live or die because of adtech.http://money.cnn.com/2017/0…
I said essentially the same thing about Congress before reading your post. How ironic – the first “non politician” elected as President is schooling the rest of government on how it should be done. Masterful in my book.
I wish it were so straight forward. I seem to remember DT signing a few EOs of his own. Something about following through on a Muslim Ban comes to mind … followed by denial that it was a Muslim Ban.This move, or pushing the need to address the deferment to now, is noise amongst so many other issues. The inability to focus on core issues of the moment, e.g. work to actually stop North Korea, work to address the security of our election process, work to address a core issue for the party in power which is tax reform, are all over shadowed by what is now the new hot potato.This isn’t leadership, it is divisiveness. It is playing to his base. It is saying one thing “I love the dreamers” and doing another “its not my problem, its Congress.” That is weak.Perhaps in the end, there might be lemonade for the Dreamers. Perhaps there will be a path to citizenship here. Perhaps they will have their rights secured. But, based on the first 6 months of this term, it would be hard to believe that will be the outcome, and even harder to believe that is the actual intention.
The “intention” for immigration is totally clear: Extreme vetting to let in people who can add to the US, fit in with the US, and love the US — IIRC, roughly from memory.And that’s not new but goes way back in the US policies, practices, and laws on immigration.Sure, there are people who want to imply that the US should take in everyone who wants to come, especially people who need help. Really, that’s just a distraction from what mostly open borders immigration is about: Bringing in a new version of slave labor.Who should Trump care more about, (A) a US citizen ready, willing, able, and eager to work and support a family but lost his job and can’t find another one or (B) some person outside the US who will take the job of a US citizen, make full use of government services, maybe draw welfare, but pay little or nothing in taxes? Clearly (A) is the answer except for people who want to import cheap labor.
Good to “see” you, Andy!
Andy,There has been more than enough failure and lily-livered action on this particular issue to go around. Obama was saddled with a Congress that opposed his every move – constitutional or not. The current president is forcing a stance but not coming out and stating which side of the equation he is on. That too is lily-livered. This could be a defining moment for him to silence some of his critics, but again he punts. One can always criticize a person who does something or takes a stance, but the man who washes his hands of a situation, and leaves it for others (when he can/should provide leadership) is nothing short of a coward – or worse duplicitous.
Obama earned that opppsition Congress when he shoved Obamacare down our throats. His presidency survived because of that tempering Congress. I understand the liberals love importing millions of new dependent voters, but the buck stops here…and I have a feeling Trump is going to find a nice middle ground that is neither cruel to the “dreamers” nor lax on the criminals and moochers that WERE pouring in.
Have you caught the clip of Obama saying ‘Yeah, but I won.’ in a Cabinet meeting? Whoa, lack of people skills people.Trump is the other end of the spectrum – his self esteem is totally based on getting things done, whereas Obama’s self esteem was never impacted by a failure to get something done.
I think that’s a direct result of being in a business where your reward is based on what you get done, rather than a business where your reward is based on what you say you’d like to get done.
The best version of America is Obama’s intentions / style married with Trump’s commitment / skills.
.Prediction: DJT and Chuck Schumer are going to become big buddies. Today, it was revealed that they were working on a bill to eliminate the debt ceiling in its entirety.That has to piss off McConnell and Ryan as it makes them irrelevant.Trump is a triangulater. It is easy to do because he is not beholden to the GOPe, he is not an idealogue, he is not a Republican, he is not a conservative — he is a pragmatic doer.He has decided that neither McConnell nor Ryan can get the job done, that the Senate Republicans hate him, that the Senate Republicans will not vote for simple things like repeal & replace, so he is going to dance with the Devil.From Schumer’s perspective, he can spend the next few years being irrelevant or he can fashion a Reagan-O’Neill relationship, a couple of guys who could do business, but who were diametrically opposed from a political perspective.Gingrich had a similar relationship with Clinton.Hang on because this is going to become very interesting.DJT is a smart, ballsy guy. Look at the ease with which he jettisoned Reince and Bannon — shots you called BTW. Look how he put Kelly into place. Look how he hit Syria. The list is long.I am very optimistic on Trump. When he gets tax reform done — who is going to vote against this. If Schumer can get his new Bro Act flanged up, he might just be the whip who gets the votes counted.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Prediction: DJT and Chuck Schumer are going to become big buddies. …. That has to piss off McConnell and Ryan as it makes them irrelevant.It’s amazing to me how many otherwise highly educated people out there ‘book smart’ don’t understand what appears to be 2nd nature to both of us (if I can pat each of us on the back).The President has merely managed leverage by taking into account both ‘keep your enemies closer’ and also by offering some rewards so as to be able to ‘control the children’. If he gives then he has something to take away. Works great with kids and adults.I don’t even think this was something that had to give any thought to. It’s just the way someone operates if they think a certain way.I’ve told the story before about when I was on some committee and even though I agreed with the plan of action I purposely held back approval just so someone else had to call me up to ‘convince’ me. That was my way of extracting some future benefit out of them and the group for agreeing to what I already agreed to. And that’s just little old me doing my thing. Hard to believe I am anything that special in such manipulations. And you know what? The person that convinced me looked like a hero and was glad that he got to do that. I am sure it gave him an uplift in his day by ‘pulling that off’. [1][1] This is similar to when politicians get to crow because they keep a company from leaving by giving them tax benefits. It’s a win all around except for the tax payers. So obvious.
The thing is this. I don’t think seat of the pants Obama or his advisers considered the difference between a deal made (or a negotiation) where you will never have to deal with someone again and a deal where you need ‘service after the sale’. Or perhaps will have to do other deals with the same party. The way you hold your self and your actions may be vastly different.I am not saying this to take jabs at Obama either but to simply educate. And it’s kind of a basic bedrock principle of deal making, negotiation, sales and so on. Is this one time or repeat? How will the actions you take affect future deals or interactions? Does reputation matter? [1]What’s funny is that if this was posed as a question on a college level exam (with a few hints) I would guess that 85% of people would get the answer correct. In terms of when to be what we can call an ‘SOB’ and when not to be one.[1] As an extreme example my ‘reputation’ doesn’t matter if I am flying an airline and trying to gain a benefit by getting them to do something that they don’t want to do. Nor with a hotel that I will never visit again.
I learned this selling local advertising. The worst customer service came from low end, high end furniture retailers: they expected to only see you once and they worked you every way they could.Its changed since, but used to be really common.
Well in a similar way people hate car dealers. But as I have pointed out the root of that evil is actually the customer. The customer will come in, waste hours of your time, and then go to another dealer and buy for $100 less.Real estate sales is somewhat similar. People will take the time of the salesman as if it has no value. And they will easily waste time knowing full well they have no intention of buying at all.My ex wife owned a small ad publication and sold advertising as well. God knows the aggravation that she had in collections was unbelievable.
yes, but all of those folks are now dominated by service oriented, hold the price biz.
Andy,Your memory of the facts is rather convenient. Opposition to Obama began before he took office and intensified as time passed. His presidency survived in spite of Congress – one member of which promised to make non-constituents squeal like pigs (remember that?).My three favorites of his achievements were the fact that he saved the US auto industry, in the face of Republican opposition, saving over 2 million jobs; he helped repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’’ making our country that much more adherent to its espoused ideals; and began the conversation on universal healthcare in the world’s richest country. A conversation that has already been concluded in other developed (Sweden, Britain, Finland, Denmark, Canada, etc.), and many third world nations, the larger islands of the Caribbean for example.Immigration does need to be controlled, but to characterize a large proportion of immigrants as criminals and moochers demonstrates a limited perspective.The only middle ground the Divider and Chief will find is the one that plays to his constituency of xenophobic and deathly afraid dinosaurs who fail to acknowledge that we need to stop making the mistakes of the past. I wish you well.
He lost every election after Obamacare. It was the electorate’s last straw and yes, he had a short leash (for good reason)I didn’t give any indication of the percentage of illegal immigrants that are moochers and criminals, don’t put words in my mouth.
Not putting words in your mouth. By implication, saying that criminals and moochers are pouring in suggests a high proportion relative to the whole – something you do not know. What proportion of criminals is pouring in now? The criminals will still find a way in… that’s what they do. Anyway, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the vast majority of good people do not get TV time. Also, as far as I know, Obama won every election he was in, you can’t rewrite that historical fact. Obamacare needs bipartisan work, something that will never happen because of the egos involved. At least Obama didn’t start any wars based on shoddy data, have his cronies commit treason by outing a CIA operative, or engage in dividing the nation as this individual and his Republican predecessors have done. Perhaps he should have been a cowboy – think about it.Peace
didn’t he pass the ACA in his first term and then get re-elected?
Yes, but he lost the house, the senate and lots of governorships. The Democratic party was decimated under Obama, and it kicked off with the midnight vote on Obamacare
how is 18 months shoving?the “let’s try to repeal” thing was shoving – I’m part of many anti-cancer groups, and we literally couldn’t get information on how GINA (which had elements folded in and changed under the ACA) was going to survive. People were furious and scarily anxious, since most of the people I knew in these groups had genetic testing and they were about to suddenly be sideswiped since literally none of the advocacy groups involved had heard anything.If I were you, I’d be more terrified of the repeal than obamacare knowing that at least if there was cancer in my now immediate family (from a buying insurance point of view, not blood relatives), I’d be able to afford chemotherapy/radiation/surgery/reconstruction. I remember cancer before Obamacare (because of my mother), and I remember my mother’s fear that she would die like her mother, not because of the lack of treatment availability, but because of insurance nonsense. As much as we have a super complicated relationship now, I’m super glad she’s not going to die now because of insurance if/when the cancer comes back.
I just don’t think this is a valid interpretation,President’s job is to get it fixed, not fix it himself.He has Congress on the spit with a white hot set of coals under them.Very, very impressive move.
Yes, Congress should have addressed it, but they did not, and he has given no guidance as to how he would like to see it fixed… Opportunistic and lily-livered. His hands are clean aren’t they…
Its not an invalid view. Its based on disliking him though.His view that Congress should pass laws is awfully sensible to me – that’s their job.That 100 Senators, the cream of America’s elite, need a rubric to do so seems to indicate that those 100 people are not who they should be.
James, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Its a really interesting dividing point. mostly based on people’s definition of leadership.Most of us define leadership as stepping in and leading the way.However, some people – I am married to one and I include @JLM:disqus as one – focus more on making others accountable for doing their job as the definition of leadership.This second group tends to be people who lead large operational groups where you just cannot physically step in and lead the way on every issue.I am convert to the second group and basically see both views as valid, in their own context ( special moment leadership versus operational leadership ).In this situation, I think Trump is looking longer term, He is using the DACA issue to lay down the cultural norms that he expects from Congress ( ‘ do you job, pass legislation. ‘ ).Interesting times.
Interesting indeed. Part of leadership also involves determining the type of environment one wants to inculcate. Leaders do delegate, but on the big things they are up front and center in terms of steering the ship. Everyone should be accountable, but on policy a leader leads.
Then, the issue is – is DACA a major issue?Interesting times.
True. But with over 600,000 people affected how could it not be? Good conversation James. You make me think:)
thanks.
Bang on Andy.Scott Adams is laughing all the way to the bank.He said, late in 2016, that the MSM narrative on Trump would be ‘ unfit for office ‘, followed by ‘ effective but I still don’t like him ‘ followed by, basically, captitulation to his effectiveness.I was more impressed by Sara H-S, as I caught her schooling the WH press corps with powerful messaging lines like ‘ the reason people want to come to the USA is because we uphold the rule of law’.Or, in answering a ‘ how can a dysfunctional Congress fix this in 6 months? ‘…….’ it’s their job, maybe the Senate should sit more than 2 days a week this fall. ‘All around impressive.
.As you well know having lived through what you and Houston lived through and are dealing with, politics and political leadership can be fabulous.Dem Mayor Turner, Rep Gov Abbott, Pres Trump did a fabulous job on Hurricane Harvey.Mayor Turner said the most important thing, “Houston is open for business. We got this.”The political view from the heartland is pretty damn good. The coastal view is toxic and has been forever.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Mayor Turner would beat Bill DeBlasio drunk, high, blindfolded and with both hands tied behind his back. Don’t know much about Garcetti in LA, maybe some AVC lurkers can fill us in on him. But, here in H-Town, government leadership looks like it would spot coastal leadership 3 shots a side and still take every side of a Nassau.I’ve talked to locals and they said the last Mayor – noted for her financial wizardry – never mentioned the pension issues the city is going to get crushed by….Mayor Turner brought it up in the first week of office basically and it seems he will get it fixed, even though it will be hard to do.He handled Harvey at a high level of competence, IMO. His new Chief of Police – in the job 9 months – was also excellent during Harvey as was the Fire Chief. For those into that sort of thing, there is not a old white guy in the bunch (although Harris Country Commissioner Judge Ed Emmett is, and he crushed it too.)
@jameshrh:disqus @JLM:disqus Nice to meet you both – I’m a long time AVC reader but never commented before. Curious if you can help me understand something:From my reading over the past couple years, your positions are that:- the steady stream of Trump’s ties to Russia are either 1) inconsequential, media-hyped much-ado-about nothings or 2) complete fabrications- the constant staff turnover at the WH demonstrates Trump’s “fast learning” and a “get things done” approach- his rhetoric and behavior towards women, a Gold Star family, immigrants, Muslims, and LGTBQ – among other American demographics – are evidence of a virtuous “I’m not here to be politically correct” bent.- his violent antipathy towards the media is healthy and ‘disruptive’.This list could go on with hundreds of examples…. (and apologies if I’ve mischaracterized any your views – please correct me).So here’s what I can’t understand: Had President Obama been accused of fostering Russian support in an election, or left hundreds of important government positions unfilled, or had a similarly unstable staff, or boasted of sexual assault, etc., it is extremely hard to believe that you wouldn’t vilify him for it. That you wouldn’t decry him as being unfit for office and comically incompetent.Indeed the same things you celebrate Trump for (or dismiss as manufactured nonsense in his defense) would have earned your scorn in Obama’s presidency. Am I wrong?This suggests a level of hypocrisy so extreme I can hardly fathom it, so please help me understand why Trump is exempt from the criticism you would have so readily leveled at his predecessor had he been the culprit of the above examples.Sorry if that’s trite – I’m genuinely curious.Thanks!
It’s a great line of inquiry and I believe Jeff and I hold different views.I believe:- Trump is quite emotionally damaged, like many high achievers.- he equates results with his self esteem, almost directly.- therefore, he is almost amoral: his commitment to ‘doing whatever it takes’ to get the job done is way out at the end of he bell curve ( 0.00001 percentile).I am not an expert on Russia, but the idea that he is under a ” kompromat ” coercion is comepletly unsubstantiated. And, people have had lots of time to turn smoke into fire.What would Putin have to have on him hat would embarrass him publicly? His detractors already think he’s a cretin. And, he’s President now, so he cares even less about his reputation.Just results.Has he done things that most Americans find unsavoury, crass or over the line even? Absolutely.My fave example is Billy Bush. I worked in media, it’s Billy Bush percentage is higher than most industries, sadly.What was the job Trump was doing in the trailer with Billy Bush? The main job was to get Billy to like him and promote Trump / Apprentice on GOod Morning America.In typically Trump style, he went all in. That he was in private would have given him even more license to cross the line.As for his first 8 months, I do think he is learning and churning. The real test is not how many people hold jobs, it’s how long does it take to find someone who sticks and excels.He has tried one model – mix GOP w campaign zealots. Nope.He’s now turned it over to a top shelf Operator. Smooth sailing is my prediction.It was never going to work but he gets marks for loyalty to Bannon & Preibus, who likely told thim they could A) not be glory hogging blabber mouths B) not leak like a seive.I have praised Sara H-B here today. If she sticks – I think she will – that’s impressive. That is a super important job for Trump. To nail it on the second try says a lot about his ability to define what he needs and find it.Kelly sticks I bet.Mattis, Tillerson, Mulvaney, Sessions will all stick.There will be tough patches, but people forget hat tension holds bridges together.Relationships are the same.I have, here, laid out the Project people and Operator people theory. Trump clearly gravitates to top shelf leaders for existing Operations ( Defence, State ), wickedly smart people for key risk points ( Sessions, Mulvaney ) and has a special place for Special Ops forces ( Bannon ) which is his branch!!Remember, he is doing it himself. Not delegating these decisions / strategies and make lots of them.BTW, Ivanka & Jared are there too provide him support ( has no one else he trusts ) and to benefit from the insane Rolodex building.If Jared actually does something, bonus.FWIW – I was a huge Obama fan, in 2008. I’m a little hard on him because the product failed to deliver on the marketing promises he made ( most likely this was inability, not deliberate deception – he wrote campaign checks he could not cash ).I am a marketing guy. Got tricked. Embarrassed a bit. But, still, really disappointing.
Always enjoy your posts and love this breakdown of his appointments. The mixing of GOP with campaign zealots absolutely was something he needed to A/B test as Scott Adams would say.And regardless of any slight hiring mistakes, Mattis is the best cabinet appointment in the history of cabinet appointments,
Thanks.I learn a ton being active on days like this.I think Tillerson – recommended by Condoleeza Rice and Jim Baker I think – is a historically great appointment as well.
Thanks for the response, James!
It is a great question. Trump was not elected for his morals, manners, or ethics. He was/is an asshole and everyone knows it. He was elected because people wanted to show their middle finger to the establishment and were genuinely aggrieved and anxious about their lives. He was the right candidate at the right time to galvanize a base that was looking for an alternative between big government liberals and no government conservatives and who could disrupt the status quo. Can anyone really say they are surprised if it tuns out that there is proof of collusion with Russia or even if there is real Kompromat? It will be absolutely par for the course for Trump.From my standpoint, JLM has been consistent throughout. Of course, I would appreciate it more if he could see some of the nuances and the underlying reasons as to why people might be so concerned about Trump as President.
Excellent analysis IMO.Jeff is a mondo ‘do your job’ type and has the stack to show for it.I cut him some slack when ‘do nothing’ politics got the middle finger – he’d been waiting a long time.And, he went all in on Trump in June 2016, after doing considerable research. He was right ( I never called a Trump win, he did).
.To be clear, I was on record after the 2014 elections saying Trump could win the nomination when the field was still crowded and Jeb Bush was the Great White Hope. I always knew Jeb would fold.When he had “no path” to a win in the Electoral College, I always said he “could” win. I even argued the case with Karl Rove. I used to be his landlord.When it became clear as to what the two campaigns were going to do, I said Trump would win.It is not fair to say I “supported” him. I never wrote him a check.I had a very confident feeling when I saw where HRC and DJT were spending their time in the last two months of the campaign.Trump ran the table. There was a way for him to win. Karl Rove was wrong.Trump won because he tapped into the 2014 anger and was the only guy to figure it out.He is smart as Hell. Can you build a 100-story building?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
I would say everyone else lost.HRC lost because she really reached out to the people that she was the most comfortable with…..the elite.Joe Biden who is also flawed would have absolutely killed him because………he does genuinely love the non elites.Look at my picture of him on election day. Who does he choose to take a picture with? The cleaning lady who is raising her grandson.I ride the train with him. He really does know every worker and in a genuine way.I really want to like Trump. I’ll get past his flaws. I think most of his ideas are good.But the guy just can’t stay on point. Maybe that is part of his appeal.I can’t understand? How hard is it? Charlottesvile:1. I didn’t come out immediately because I don’t jump to conclusions like you like to do (jab at media)2. You media want to make this a big issue because you are elites (right cross to media) this was about 75 assholes from as far away as Canada3. I don’t want or accept the support or votes of anybody that is a part of the KKK, neo-Nazi’s or any other hate group. Don’t vote for me.4. If you are an upstanding person that does not believe in the campus political correctness and want to preserve history. That is fine, but when these people show up leave because they are the reason people want things taken down. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, it does not make a sound (got that media?)5. To the people that came for a fight: I am proposing a new law: Come to a protest 50 or more people with a mask on? I don’t care if it’s a white hood or black mask. Own your identity. Two years in prison. Have a weapon? Rock, Torch, Club, etc? another 3 years.Use it an hurt somebody? Another 5.
I bet you will see this type of messaging discipline – smart and tight – much more frequently.Bannon too undisciplined, Preibus too dumb and Spicer to inexperienced.That Sara H-S was putting the Ali Shuffle on the WH Press Corp on DACA is a HUGE (how do you spell it the way he says it?) step forward.Either she, or Kelly or somebody had figured out the questions before they were asked (experience showing) and had tight answers (smarts showing).I don’t need to like him.America pretty much needs him to fix the culture in DC before its too late. If he does that, it may embolden other non-pols to run @ state and local levels, where the culture is even worse.
What a great comment.
.Please refresh my memory, Cave P. Do we call people “asshole” under the new rules of commentary here on AVC.com? Can we get a ruling on that? Seems to impinge the convo, but I could be wrong.Checking for a friend.A kompromat? Really? Is this a John le Carre novel or something?Let’s swim a little closer to the shore where the normal people are sunbathing, no?There has to be some way I can win a lot of money betting on this faux Russia thing. There is ………………………………… nothing.[I have to tell you, I wish there were something as it would be very interesting to see what the Congress might do. DJT would find a way to leverage the experience into higher office. No?]When the leaky Director FBI can’t find anything to feed his NYT handler, what can there be there? Where’s the beef?Sort of a condescending comment, but that’s the way the morning is going. I never knew painting was so damn loud.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
JLM, I do not know if there is something there. All I am saying is that none of us (even many of his ardent supporters) will be surprised if there is. That is the nature of the man. He is a tough SOB and he badly wanted to win. That trait has lots of implications. Some good, some bad.As for using the A word, hey, some times gentle profanity goes a long way in making a point. Sorry if that was offensive.My larger meta point is this. Several of us tend to take extreme sides and want to be perceived as consistent and acting with conviction. But the reality is that Trump is not all bad. He is not all good either. It really depends on the the specific issue at hand, who is being affected and if his policy or action will generate positive outcomes relative to status quo. We will be better off seeing it on a spectrum vs in black and white.
.I believe the last time I was offended was in 1968. That was a very hard year for me. But, I don’t want you to get in double secret probation with the commentariat and be banned or blackballed. Looking out for you, Cave.I know a few people who are pure good — Monsignor McCabe.I know a few people who are pure evil.I agree that most of us are a stirred (not shaken) cocktail of both depending upon the voices in our heads.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
.I could care less about Donald J Trump as an individual. I am not looking for a role model. I am interested only and solely in his political policies. Nothing more.I like his policies. I like his wife. I like his kids. He should lose 50 lbs. I like his moxie.http://themusingsofthebigre…As to the various aspersions you cast — if he or anyone around him has broken the law, they get what the law indicates up to and through impeachment.There is not a Federal statute that pertains to the role of a US political campaign and a foreign power. You may attribute that gem to Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law, amongst several others.The entire appointment of a Special Counsel was amateur hour from some unseasoned DOJ hands. Never should have happened. It will yield nothing of any criminal nature. Paul Manafort will have a financial exam which will make him cry.Given the nature of leaks, it is difficult to believe that if there was anything of substance there, it would not already have been on the front page of the NYT. Hell, the Director of the FBI (a huge detriment to HRC’s chances on at least two occasions) leaked to the NYT through a conduit. If he knew something it would be out there.There is no “constant” turnover at the WH. Several high “campaign” officials who are not and never were the right guys to govern got appointed and then found out. I admire Trump for firing them. Hire fast, fire faster.Pres Trump has done the right thing bringing in a solid professional like Gen Kelly as his CoS. Whenever you can get a 4-star Marine Gen v anybody who is not, go with the Leatherneck.Pres Trump has assembled a fabulous Cabinet and an incredible National Security team.I don’t agree with your characterizations as to some of the rhetoric and behavior. Much of that was pure bare knuckle, dirty tricks politics — whatever happened to the herd of women accusing him of bad acts in the last two weeks of the campaign and their “lawsuits”? Nothing. They all disappeared.The Russian Dossier is pure bullshit.I offer no defense as to anyone he offended. Bad manners are bad manners. He is a bit of a punk on these kind of things. He treated John McCain a bit rough, and John McCain, a thoroughly incompetent faux politician, returned the favor.His actions as it relates to terminating the petri dish approach to the US military is in perfect conformance with the mission of military — increase lethality, decrease vulnerability. Changing the name of rifleman to rifleperson is not worthy of consideration. Trying to get women through Ranger School is nonsense. Enlisting and then performing surgery on transgender soldiers is a waste of money.The military is not a social experiment.Pres Trump’s antipathy toward the media is a stroke of genius and well founded. Name me a single Republican amongst the entire MSM, the punditry, the pollsters, the talking head consultancy.I see no moral equivalence between Pres Obama and Pres Trump. I criticize both of them based solely on policy. I care not a whit about anything other than policy.I was proud that the US elected a black President. As experience mounted, I wish it hadn’t been this one. He enacted poor policy. He was terrible on foreign policy. He left us broker than when he entered and piled on more debt than all of his predecessors combined.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
General Kelly as chief of staff was an excellent move. I don’t know if anyone else at the White House has his network and level of knowledge about America (I am talking about the greater America here). His SOUTHCOM experience and connections are invaluable.He is the canary now. While he is allowed to hold his post and do his job mantaining coherence at the White House, all will be within operational parameters. Trump bought insurance, imho. Will he care this time?General Kelly, top talent indeed.https://www.pacificcouncil….
.Great article. Great interview. Serious guy. Adult leadership.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Thanks Jeff – lots in here I view much differently but that’s a debate for another time and I appreciate the dialogue.Separately, I’ll be in ATX in a month and understand you have BBQ recommendations. If you’re willing to share secrets, please do!
.In the ATX, you want to eat ribs at County Line (On the Hill, not On the Lake) and BBQ at Green Mesquite or Terry Black’s.You have to eat TexMex at Guero’s and Matt’s El Rancho (landmark). At Matt’s you order a “big” Bob. Better chips at Matt’s. Great people watching at both. Night time music at Guero’s.Be careful of the margaritas as this is the varsity. I am not aware of any living person who has ever drunk 4 or more margaritas at either of these two joints. The second margarita, apparently, contains truth serum.Taste of S Austin — Vinaigrette. Great outdoor eating, sort of salady.Fonda San Miguel if you want “fine” Mexican cuisine like Mexico. You can also go to Santa Rita in a pinch.You may want to eat pizza at Bufalina or Homeslice, breakfast at the Counter Cafe, Texas French Bread (nice outdoor dining), Russel’s (in West Austin, not on Hancock), or Taco Deli (on N Lamar)Dinner at Josephine House (outside) or Jeffrey’s (very pricey). Casual Italian across the street at Cippolina’s (Laura Bush’s favorite joint). Same owners as the original Jeffrey’s.Go to Matti’s (the old Green Pastures) and eat under the trees. Romantic setting, great brunch. Vespaio (Geo W Bush’s favorite joint) for Italian. Also Juliet’s on Barton Springs Road — great food and outdoor eating. Siena on the edge of the Hill Country is great Italian.Go to Shoal Creek Cafe (across the street from the first Whole Foods which is now a Goodwill) to drink beer and eat crawfish etouffee and watch football.If you like franks (hot dogs) go to Franks.Eat Vietnamese cuisine at Elizabeth Street Cafe. Fabulous spring rolls.Sushi at Uchi and you might try any of the new restaurants along S Lamar south of Barton Springs.Seafood? Perla’s or Clarke’s. Great lobster roll Clarke’s. Pricey. Great food.Here’s a real secret — best cheeseburger and lobster club in the ATX? The Barton Creek CC golf joint behind the golf pro shop. Open to the public with a credit card or cash. My go to post church brunch location forever.Seafood dive? Garbo’s in far north Austin run by some New Englanders who used to own shrimp boats and lobster boats. Hole in the wall.For the sunset — The Oasis at the Lake. Used to have toxic food, but it is edible now. Get drunk on Mexican beer and catch an Uber.Short trip — Deep Eddy Vodka distillery. Lots of good craft beer joints — Peacemaker by Austin Beer Works. You would be lining my pocket.If you go hungry, it is your fault. If you eat a bad meal it is my fault.Have a great trip and rest assured my food Sherpa services are very well priced.Bon appetit.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Wow – great list! Thanks for the recs.
> Vinaigrette?Usually that’s 1 cup of virgin olive oil and 1/3 cup of some vinegar with a tiny bit of garlic, maybe some French herbs, and a little salt and pepper. One step more fancy, and for an emulsifier, can have a little mustard, dry, US French’s, or French Grey Poupon Dijon mustard.That’s likely a lot like what they used to do at Rive Gauche on the SW corner of M Street and Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown, DC and used, added at the table, on a wide range of cold vegetables and meats.That’s subtle food. I prefer something less subtle:My DIY. Get a bowl of about 1 quart, say, stainless steel. Add 1 to a few cloves of fresh garlic, minced or crushed (depending on strength of the garlic and if you are for subtle or strong, this recipe mostly assumes strong), 2 T Worcestershire sauce, some freshly ground black pepper (again, subtle or strong), and two cans, 2 ounces a can, of anchovies packed in oil; include the oil. Crush the anchovies. Add 1/4 cup Grey Poupon Dijon mustard.Add 2/3 cup of red wine vinegar. Curiously here likely prefer the US brands which are from North American domestic grapes (not European vinafera) that are said to make better red wine vinegar.Take one USDA Grade A Large egg, boil gently for about 10 seconds mostly just to sterilize its exterior, and crack it into the bowl. That makes a great emulsifier and does add some to the flavor.Take a wire whip and mix. Continue to mix adding 2 cups of virgin olive oil (extra virgin is usually much more expensive and with who knows what flavors) slowly. Actually there’s so much emulsifier in the bowl already that likely can just dump in all the 2 cups of olive oil and mix — no problems.Get some of the really clean, nearly perfect Romaine lettuce hearts, chill, tear, and add to a large salad bowl. Top with some garlic flavored croutons. Add the DIY dressing and toss until all the lettuce is lightly coated. Top with freshly grated hard, dry Italian cheese, e.g., Parmigiano-Reggiano or Locatelli Pecorino Romano.Use as a first or early course in a nice dinner with a full flavored entree, e.g., Italian or American, likely based on beef.Sure, could start with a fish course of some kind — lots of options there. E.g., get some good frozen shrimp, boil and clean them, and freeze them a few to a plastic bag. Make up or buy some red shrimp sauce. Then set some of the frozen shrimp under running water, thaw, and serve with the sauce.For some choices of a fish course, have a well chilled French wine from near Macon. Yes, one example is Montrachet, but a year at Harvard or a new Corvette are likely cheaper. May be able to get something within a 5 iron shot nearly as good (dry, delicate flavors, high acid, relatively low alcohol) for ballpark $10. Yes, it’s from Chardonnay.For some first, and/or fish, courses, cold beer also works fine.Ah, no wine with the salad. And due to the croutons, no bread needed.Have the entree with a decent red wine, e.g., there’s a $10 Chianti from Italy I like better than anything from France for less than $150 (although I confess I have not tried them all!).After the entree, have a nice, rich dessert, say, something with rich chocolate cake, good vanilla ice cream, hot fudge sauce, and whipped cream or something with good pound cake, vanilla ice cream, fresh red raspberries or, surprisingly good, canned cherry pie filling, and whipped cream. Or if can make/buy one, a Sacher Torte with whipped cream or a good, no doubt homemade, Black Forest Cherry Cake, a LOT of work, but there’s a good start in one of the books in the old Time-Life Foods of the World series. I’ve done all of those.Then leave the clean up for later, curl up with your SO, and watch a movie where the hero wins out against the bad guys and gets the girl!I’m off to the grocery store!
> He treated John McCain a bit rough, and John McCain, a thoroughly incompetent faux politician, returned the favor.Back then, hearing about all that Trump-McCain pissing match, I took out an afternoon and chased down most of the details.Short version:(1) McCain ran for POTUS and lost. Trump ran for POTUS and won — it may be that, thus, McCain is pissed at Trump.(2) Trump had his first rally in Phoenix.(3) Soon McCain had a reporter in his Senate office and claimed that at that rally Trump had “fired up the crazies”. At reporters are prone to do, that reporter reported what McCain said.(4) Soon was the “Famly” or some such big political show-n-tell in Iowa, and Trump had an interview with that focus group guy. The issue of McCain came up, and part of that was that McCain was a “war hero”. Trump responded that McCain is regarded as a war hero because he was captured — that plausible.(5) The McCain issue continued and Trump ended with “maybe he is a war hero.”So, IMHO, McCain threw the first punch with his “Trump fired up the crazies”.There are more details to the fight, but IIRC from my investigation the above touches on the larger points. I’m sure I have my notes on the investigation.
.McCain got his revenge — he fetched the Russian Dossier from England, gave it to Comey, and killed R & R for OCare.JLMwww.themusngsofthebigredcar…
WOW! McCain’s a pain. But he’s not as bad as some say — yes, he came close but he didn’t actually sink that aircraft carrier!
you are giving Trump way too much credit when he is bumbling his way around.Let DACA get fixed by Congress and signed by the President without anyone getting hurt or deported.Let the North Korea situation actually get addressed through peaceful means without any loss of life in the Korean Peninsula or elsewhere.And so on…So, please let us hold the applause until there are good outcomes. I will be the first to applaud when it happens and will be happy to give him credit when it is due.
.For 5 years, since 2012, DACA has languished as an unconstitutional bit of spilled ink and the Congress did nothing about it. President Obama did nothing about it.On Tuesday, President Trump told Congress, “You clowns have six months to fix this. In the meantime, no new applications and nobody gets deported. All renewals will be made as planned. Go to work, Congress.”Now, finally, Congress is going to do something about this.Since the 1990s, Clinton, Bush, Obama handed money to the North Koreans and tried to bribe them not to go nuclear. For a quarter of a century, we just let the NKs continue to work toward nukes and ICBMs.On 9 October 2006, the NKs exploded their first nuclear weapon.In the last 24 months, the NKs began to test ICBMs.This week, the NKs detonated a hydrogen weapon 5-10X Hiroshima.The only thing keeping NK from being able to hit New York City is miniaturization. Making their nukes small enough to mount on their new ICBMs.President Donald J Trump is the first US President to take the NKs seriously. He is the first US President to pressure China to assist in the solution.When they bluffed they were going to hit Guam, he backed them down.President Trump gets high marks for picking up the cans the previous admins have been kicking and saying, “End of the road and end of strategic patience (which means: “Do I have a tee time for Saturday?”), motherfuckers.”He gets high marks for being a force for action. He is focused on the right things. He is a doer in a world full of bullshitters.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
| he is a doer in a world of bullshittersmaybe, but he is also a very fine bullshitter par excellence.If DACA gets done through Congress, it is a good thing and Trump deserves the kudos.The republican party is so torn internally that democrats+moderate republicans in congress might have the votes to get things done on a centrist agenda. If Trump aligns with them to pass infrastructure, corporate tax reform, immigration reform, etc. he can accomplish a lot.But… Trump is fickle and cares more for popularity than actually doing the right things. His only real base is the far right that is animated on immigration and white nationalism (not the true conservative), so he runs the risk of alienating his core.
.Most doers are salespersons. Salespersons speak “bullshit.”On the issue of the debt ceiling, Pres Trump did the most important thing — he kept the deal alive. If he had put the country’s fate in the hands of the “do nothing” GOP leadership and tried to get an 18 month deal, it would have died.Funny thing is once the tax bill gets done, Pres Trump is likely to favor a gov’t shutdown.There is no longer a Republican Party. The GOPe is still pissed off.Pres Trump is not a Republican.President Trump is going to align himself with whomever can get done what needs to be done. Witness his embrace of Schumer and Pelosi right in front of the GOP leadership and without blinking an eye.He made the deal in front of McConnell and Ryan right in the Oval Office. WTF were McConnell and Ryan thinking after that meeting? Haha. It was a classic.There are not very many white nationalists in the US. That is a construct of the media and the left. Do you actually know anyone who is a Nazi, KKK, white supremacist, Antifa, BLM?I am in the midst of a largish remodeling and I ask my contractors if they do. Universally — “NO” except for one guy from east Texas who said, “I went to high school with an old boy, etc.”Pres Trump has gotten a lot of stuff done that nobody wants to give him credit for. You’ve seen the list. He is not suddenly going to stop getting stuff done.Pres Trump does not give a whit about alienating anyone. Bannon? Haha, what a toothless tiger that turned out to be. Pres Trump is unafraid to call out the AG, the Speaker, the Majority Leader. He has balls as big as Manhattan.Oh, yeah, there is some evidence the guy is not even a politician. Huh?Trump is bad. Russia.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Are you saying Ann Coulter and company have no followers? That white identity politics is not a real thing?Come on.. maybe the KKK has declined, but white grievance is real and that is what bolted Trump to the white house.I do not believe Trump is a white nationalist, but he is an opportunist and has used the white working class voter’s anguish to his advantage.I love your comments but I do think you would be far more credible if you care to acknowledge the nuances of the dynamics at play.
.Time out, Cave.Ann Coulter is your exemplar for white identity politics? Huh? She is a perfectly predictable, white, woman lawyer/author with as conventional a view of conservatism as one could have.Pres Trump is not even a conservative. She lambasts him for that.The KKK, formed by the Democrats immediately after the Civil War, is an irrelevancy. Once you get past David Duke in Louisiana and Bobby Byrd in W Va (thankfully dead), who is the driving force?The “opportunity” that DJ Trump capitalized upon was the residual anger from the 2014 elections which swept the Republicans into power and repudiated all things Obama.I wrote and commented extensively upon the reality of that anger. it was real and all the geniuses who opposed DJT in the primaries missed it.DJ Trump did not win the election in states where white nationalism is evident. He won union households in the Rust Belt and coal miners in the coal states.His opponent handed him those typically reliable and robust Democrat constituencies.What also appealed to voters was his robust immigration stance which most people translated into economic nationalism — the protection of American jobs for Americans, hiring Americans, buying American, and other pocketbook issues. This garnered support amongst the traditional soccer moms whose husbands were out of work, underemployed, looking.”It was the economy, stupid.”What people are missing is there are no nuances at stake here. They are enormous bedrock, fundamental issues — foreign policy, law enforcement, immigration, the economy.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
White identity politics is not white nationalism. The white working class has genuine grievances. Mostly economic but there is also some element of racist or native nationalism seeking a “me first” treatment relative to other groups.The Democratic Party did a poor job of speaking to them and Trump drove a truck through that opening.The extreme views might be on the fringes of this segment but this is where Trump started with his birther movement before he expanded the base.Evidence says he is an opportunist who went about building his base in a despicable and cunning way. But that is water under the bridge now and one can only hope that he does a good job as President for all the people.
.You are totally confusing me.”White identity politics is not white nationalism.” WTF does that mean? They are sleeping together under the same comforter.You are using the word “white” in front of “working class” as if it actually exists that way. It does not. Working men and women are very diverse.Pres Trump outworked his Dem rival — WTF was her name? — in the states where he could pick up votes and wins.There is nothing even remotely despicable about targeting those locations, particularly when his opponent didn’t even bother to show up. That is as basic as it gets.If you think you can appeal to coal worker sentiments — you go to coal country. The fact your opponent said, “We’re going to put coal out of business” is not despicable. It is just stupid on her part.If you think you can tap into union resentment of the bosses throwing their money at the Dems, you go to highly union states.That right there was the whole damn election. On Election Night when Pennsylvania went for DJT, I screamed, “Whoa, Nelly!” It was over after that.Pres Trump ran a very good, blocking and tackling campaign — not brilliant, just journeyman like, remember he spent next to nothing — and had a superb tech op run by a company out of San Antonio. It was far better than his opponents.In addition, the RNC did not burn out this time around. And, yes, the Russians were colluding with him, forgot that for a second.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
JLM, what we are saying is not mutually exclusive. You can be appealing to coal miners, have a great economic message and also be signaling to the anguished white working class that is feeling ignored that you will take care of them.You either have to be remarkably stupid or unbelievably naive to not see the dog whistles. You are neither.In my view, White identity politics is appealing to the specific needs and worries of that segment. Not dissimilar to what the democrats have been doing with the black community.White nationalism includes racist tendencies like the march in Charlottesville.
.You may “see” the dog whistles, but I don’t hear them.When I am at my Precinct as an Election Judge, I never see any KKK, Nazis, BLM, Antifa, white supremacists. We have cops who walk the parking lot and this year I asked them to note any Confederate flags — none.Do you know any KKK, Nazis, BLM, Antifa, white supremacists, Sisters of Mercy? Personally?The people you describe DON’T VOTE and exist in such miniscule numbers as to be invisible.You know who votes in this country? Old people. Old people and soccer moms. This year, we had a lot of working people and spouses vote. They voted for their jobs.Less than 75% of eligible voters register. Fewer than 50% of registered voters vote. Do the math.About 17% of the US population determined the winner. Of that, it happened in fewer than six states. It was math.Crazy people do not vote as they are pre-occupied by their craziness.None of those crazy Charlottesville people even live in Charlottesville. They have to import crazy people to get a riot started.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Ha ha. I see the dog whistles because I cannot hear them. Only the intended recipients can.We can agree to disagree here. There is a little bit of a racist in everyone just as compassion and love also exist in everyone. Under conducive circumstances, anyone can become anything.
A little bit of racist is not even close to true.Some people view others without colour and base it on who they are as individuals. Too often, those people get lumped in as racists because they do not adhere to progressive remedies.Bogus.
He is not racist. Just an opportunist. The obama birther thing was disgraceful. As you said, he will do anything to win. The birther conspiracy was his way to get to a minimum viable segment and then expand it.
I’m guessing that anyone who likes reading the NYT can see at least five dog whistles on any sheet of blank paper, but maybe they would admit it takes talent, training, and practice!
> the dog whistles.What??? I watched the election for months occasionally hearing about “dog whistles”, “alt-right”, “identity politics”, etc. and never knew what any of them meant. Eventually I did a Google lookup on the first; okay. I still have yet to see anything like a good definition with good examples of the other two.Using undefined terminology is a total show stopper in math, but apparently in propaganda can be an advantage because no one has a clear definition for a solid rebuttal!Even after I saw what “dog whistle” was supposed to mean, I never saw any criteria by which I could be sure to detect such a sound.So, in practice, just keep saying “dog whistle” and, for the meaning, just use tone of voice and give an ugly facial expression. Of course then, absolutely nothing, not even zip, zilch, or zero, has actually been said.Another such way to attack Trump has been the claim of “mentally unstable” and “unfit to hold the office” — again, no clear statements and no evidence. So, as part of the propaganda, say it, just say it, over and over, and do a gang-up and pile-on and have all the MSM pundits say it over and over all in the same week. No evidence. Just as in Goebbels.There are major parts of our society — pure and applied math, physical science, even social science, engineering, legal cases, nearly all of serious finance, essentially all of medicine — where that silly, destructive sewage is not accepted.Anyone who falls for that sewage should be totally ashamed of themselves.It’s simple: Where’s the evidence? It’s as in the famous “Where’s the beef?”. No evidence? Then just quit paying attention. Don’t strain to try to find something in that nonsense and, instead, just call it sewage and flush it. Or if the source actually had anything at all important to say, then it wouldn’t look like sewage.For Trump, IMHO he didn’t win on subtle, opaque, sewage. Instead he won because (A) there are a lot of present and former coal miners in Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania and more out west (supposedly there is a layer of coal about 20′ thick under much of the whole state of Utah — at’s a lot’a coal); IIRC Hillary, at least some Democrats, wanted to shut down coal. So, the coal miners voted. Hint: They didn’t vote to destroy their jobs. Not subtle. No “dog whistles” needed or involved.In recent years, the US has imported a lot of cheap products and workers, and that has thrown a lot of US workers out of work. Not subtle.Under Obama, the US GDP growth rate has been 1-2% per year; as of last quarter, it is right at 3%. Anything like 4% or 5%, IIRC, will totally revolutionize US employment and government finances. Not subtle. Not a “dog whistle”.Energy.A. “Is energy important? I believe I’ve seen some articles about energy?”B. “Right, lots of articles.”A. “Since you are an expert, which is better, a liquid or a solid?”With pipelines, fracking, all of the above including nukes, Paris Accords out of the way, we are now much better off in energy. Not subtle or “dog whistle” stuff.I still don’t know what the “alt-right” is and am so far behind I don’t know what the “alt-left” is either. I do, however, have some negative opinions, with I believe lots of evidence, about Nancy Pelosi, Joy Behar, Maxine Waters, the one who had her “best abortion at a Planned Parenthood clinic”, and the one who said “I’ve thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House.” They aren’t very subtle either! Did someone mention “mentally unstable”? What about, to use a technical term, “wack-o”.Uh, there’s some news about women who like abortions so much: Darwin is on the case, and in a few more generations the fraction of such women will be way down! “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.”, and the ones that get abortions are definitely in the unlucky gene pool.
I agree partly. It is working class. Not white, not male, but working class. And Trump drove a dump truck through that opening.It is why Biden would have won going away in that election. He always talks about his working class upbringing.
.Doubt Biden would have won as he would have had a pork chop around his neck titled “Obamacare.”He would have been a far better candidate than Email because he’s just a more attractive campaigner.This was an anti-establishment, change election. He is as establishment, status quo as it comes.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Yes, but I do think the white working class identified better with his message than other communities.And yes, Biden would have done very well. It is a real shame that he decided to not run.
.He knew the fix was in for HRC from the start.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
And what does it say about him that he didn’t have the fortitude to steamroll over that fix?Funny story and in no way related to anything on the level of being a President. Not claiming that at all. But it has to do with overcoming obstacles and adversity. If you really want something.I am in the process of selling something for someone that is quite valuable. 7 figures. The company that I am selling it to (on behalf of the owner) is Facebook. Facebook writes to me today and tells me not to approach anyone else at the company. That the one person that I am dealing with at FB is the sole rep at Facebook in addition to their attorney at a huge law firm. (I have written to both of them a few times). But since I didn’t hear back I dug up more names and reached out. (I had been ‘scolded’ about this before!) I will not even make a great deal of money on this. So my motivation isn’t entirely money but instead (as in politics) the love of the game and the love of helping someone out. (Really that is a large part of it..)Anyway, when I got that new email what do you think I did?Did I say ‘oh oh, ok, I’m sorry I didn’t mean to step on any toes. It won’t happen again!’. No not even close.You probably know exactly what I did, right? It only made the entire process more fun and interesting for me. God I wish that type of thing happened every day.
.Deal junkie.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
This is very, very true, and also a big reason she lost.
It’s not a shame at all that he decided not to run. It’s good that he decided not to run. Why? Being President is close to the most demanding job in the world. We certainly don’t want someone in the job who is recovering from the pain of losing a child and/or for whatever reason is not willing to walk on hot coals. It is amazing that anyone actually is crazy enough to want the job it’s the ultimate ‘be careful what you wish for..’.
Biden’s appeal. It’s different. While that is possible you are not considering one other thing about Trump that Biden doesn’t have. Trump has that ‘rich successful guy’ thing going for him. There is a large slice of the working class that respects the type of outward appearance of wealth that Trump has. And they are not thinking about it the way the press did with it’s ‘maybe he isn’t as rich as he says he is’. To the working class the fact that he has his own airplane and owns big buildings (or has free run of them and controls them) is enough to make them a believer in his success. And that he was on a show flaunting his wealth as well and that he lives in an apartment palace and one way or another gets to use mar-a-lago.You know Bloomberg didn’t get elected in NYC because of his looks or personality. The thing that put him over the edge was that he was a billionaire. (Note I said ‘edge’ I didn’t say there weren’t other reasons…)
> despicableThe hate-Trump, NYT-Hillary, Democrat, Goebbels-style (“If you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it and eventually even you will believe it.” — IIRC) lying propaganda media may have tried to claim that what Trump did was “despicable”. It appeared that they claimed everything else they could think of and still do.E.g., what will be the gang-up, pile-on, repeated chorus for today? For months the word was “Russia”. For a while it was “no empathy”. Then it was “cruel”. With the NBC tape where Trump told a younger man what some women would permit from a powerful man, it was “sexual predator” (he never said he did that, but it was easy enough to know that some women would permit that just from JFK and what he did to that 19 year old NJ, engaged, Miss Porter’s school debutante). Not to forget xenophobic, sexist, Islamophobic, narcissistic. And there’s the amateur psychiatry “mentally unstable”. Not to be outdone, from a story yesterday about Ms. Huckabee on The View there’s the Joy Behar “95% of what Trump says is lies.”. Ah, following Ms. Behar, I likely omitted 99% of the sewage the propaganda threw at Trump.But in all of that sewage, I never once saw any evidence of “despicable” for Trump. I still don’t. I’m still looking for credible evidence. But I’m no longer looking very hard because by now my prior estimate is that the odds are that all the sewage is just lying propaganda.We’ve gotta watch out for that propaganda sewage. If we step in it, maybe it’s tough to wash off. Near the NYT building, it can just fall out of the sky.
Interestingly, Ivana reported that one of the few books Trump really liked reading was a book of all of Hitler’s speeches, because he admired Hitler’s speaking style (much of it was engineered by Gobbels).https://www.vanityfair.com/…I’d suggest being careful with your metaphors, especially in the case where it known that one of the parties involved actually did like Gobbels from a “how to speak” point of view.From the coverage of their divorce, september 1990
Darned good and clear.The NYT-Hillary Democrat MSM propaganda machine and nearly all of Manhattan, SF, and DC were totally convinced that the only possible winner was Hillary. When they were wrong, they started a civil war, mostly not violent yet.That machine was convinced that Obama had talked God into repealing the law of gravity or at least letting Obama keep it from being enforced.Now with Trump, the machine is going through a version of opiate withdrawal. And, like with the opiates, too much can so slow activity that it is fatal. The withdrawal is painful, and the machine wants a “fix”, “Just one more fix!!!!!”.The NYT can’t believe that they are hooked and doing anything wrong and, instead, believe that they deserve charity so that they can continue on their expensive, destructive habit.And it’s not just the law of gravity or being hooked: Instead, there’s big bucks behind the civil war against Trump.In person, Trump is softer than doe skin, but for getting back to reality he’s tougher than any Army boot leather. Biden’s not nearly that tough.Net, there’s no way Biden could have told his Democrat buddies to kick their habit and would given them their “One more fix” for as long as he was in office.
not clear. I dare you to run anne coulter vs father coughlin through a neural network and see if it can classify the political differences of what they say about, say immigration, – if what they say was blinded to the specific group each thinks shouldn’t belong. I suspect it would be super difficult, because functionally it is the same politics rebranded for a newer age.Father Coughlin ended up as a character in the garbage of American History. The real question is will Coulter.
I’ve been giving Trump “too much credit” for “bumbling around” since April of 2015 when he descended from the elevators of his monumental tower and announced his candidacy.
.Rest assured, “He will never get the nomination.”JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Do you see Trump winning the reelection? Just curious.
,Not in focus yet. A lot depends on who his opponent is. He won the Irish Sweepstakes with HRC as an opponent. Fair play to those who say he did NOT win, but she LOST.If it’s Kamala Harris or Corey Booker, he wins big.If there was a rematch between DJT v HRC today, DJT would win 2-3 more states including New Hampshire. Huge voter fraud in New Hampshire.http://themusingsofthebigre…Pres Trump’s name recognition is enormous and he will have the power of the incumbency.If the economy is growing in the 3-5% range consistently, he could beat free ice cream like a rented mule.If the Russia thing, N Korea, immigration, economy are solved to his satisfaction, they will be warming up the chisels on Mt Rushmore.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
It will be interesting for sure. He will have to really earn his WIN as his detractors won’t be sitting at home on election day. like last time He is making sure of that.
.Bit of a student of the electorate and an Election Judge and Precinct Chair as well as a member of the Travis County Republican Party Exec Committee. Used to be Karl Rove’s landlord when he was running Dallas City Council elections, so I make bold to say, “The electorate is all Electoral College math, nothing more.”Who votes in the US? Old people.Who does not vote in the US? Young people.Who are there very few of? KKK, Nazis, Antifa, BLM, Hollywood, white supremacists. Ask yourself, “Do I know any of these people?”Much of what the media shows is totally irrelevant. Fewer than 5% of the rabble in C’ville were even from Virginia.Who will come to the polls and switch their votes? Coal miners, union members, muscle workers, the military and EVERYONE RELATED TO THEM. This used to be a core Dem constituency. Knee jerk Dem voters.The Obama Coalition? Gone MIA and won’t be returning. Pres Trump will continue to pick off small, but meaningful slivers of the Hispanic and Black vote. He only has to get 1-4% more to make it a death blow. He has done better than any Rep in fifty years already.The “detractors” in the US are not real and not a force at the polls while the “deplorables” are. There are so many people who voted for Candidate Trump whose only supportive action was the vote — nothing more.The Electoral College doesn’t change much. You can have a riot every day of the week in California — yawn — and Cali still votes for the Dem even if it is Bernie Sanders.What does it change? Nothing.You live in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and are loosely affiliated with the auto, auto parts, coal, energy industries and you deliver those same states to incumbent President Trump.This is why I say you have to take a Electoral College view of things.The President, the Rep Gov, FEMA does a good job on Irma and Florida starts, stays, votes Trump again.The big question is who will be the Dem nominee. The Dem nominee is starting at the bottom of a very steep hill and will have to be in their track kit, spikes on no later than the 2018 mid-terms.Right now, I don’t see any very attractive front runners. They have to be from the heartland because that is where the battle will be fought.Kamala Harris, California? Corey Booker, NJ? Pfffffft.Still, it takes a single slip to change the calculus. The big win for Trump is Gen Kelly. The guy will have the WH running like the USMC in four, three, two, …………………………. one. Semper Fi.Could be wrong. I was wrong once in 1967 or was it 1968.JLM
Very interesting and well thought out analysis JLM. Thanks for sharing. You certainly know a lot more about this than I do. I agree that a lot depends upon the Dem nominee and not sure who will be the challenger.Talking about electoral college, the moment when I realized Trump would win was when he was leading in WI and MI, traditionally blue states. HRC took them for granted and didn’t go there even once. It looks like many Dems didn’t come out and vote in those states going by the numbers. Trump will have to win these two states again -unless he picks up some other states where HRC won. This will be the key in the next elections. May be I am being too simplistic in my thinking, but that is how I see it.
He is a disrupter and has proved many of us wrong by winning what seemed an unwinnable election. He sensed the mood of the country better than every other politician. Kudos to him for that.But.. I am just urging you to be cautious. His Presidency has possibilities of pleasant upsides, but also strong downsides. Each side sees what it wants to see…
.In the seeing, there are some universal truths which even a blind man can see — he DID win the election. He did deliver on many of his campaign promises. He did appoint a conservative SCOTUS Justice.The guy is a doer.Quick, what was the new policy the Dems announced three weeks ago? What are the three core tenets of the new policy?Haha.Pres Trump is blessed by the quality of his enemies and opponents. The media, the Congress, the Dems. Almost not fair.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
All singles. Nothing wrong w/ being a career singles hitter, unless your name is Pete Rose. SCOTUS isn’t a win. That’s a 70 mph hanging curveball. Trump needs to score on (4) fronts: Immigration, tax reform, infrastructure and healthcare. That’s his meaningful scorecard. He needs RBI’s, not singles. He’s emasculating Ryan and particularly McConnell like a neutered dog. Reaching out to Chucky and Nancy was a stroke of genius. There are inherent checks and balances w/ domestic policy, but he scares me on the foreign front. You don’t play chicken w/ a mad man, and his rhetoric is quite inflammatory.
.Haha, whistling past the graveyard, Salty. The SCOTUS pick was a huge win. He forced the Senate to change their freakin’ rules. He picked a perfect candidate. He won and solidified conservative support.He only really has to win one big thing between now and the mid-terms.We have to deal with N Korea — the freakin’ crazy man has ICBMs, nukes (big yield nukes), and is only being forestalled by miniaturization.This is the result of 25 years of amateurish neglect by Clinton, Bush, Obama. Pres Trump is likely the only guy who can get this done.The threat of a nuclear Japan and S Korea is the only thing China might worry about. Pres Trump’s recent utterance about curtailing trade with anyone who trades with NK is a message to China. They will listen to that.You do not back down from mad men. If the English and the French had fronted up Hitler at the time of the Sudetenland annexation, WWII might not have happened.Edouard Daladier and Neville Chamberlain had 100 French divisions, 50 English divisions, 25 Czech divisions and gave the Sudetenland to Germany followed by the annexation of Austria.Sic Semper TyrannisNK is not going to give up their nuclear arms and, like every despot, they will use them eventually. When Saddam had 5,000 tanks remember someone saying he would use them and he did — twice.This shit in NK is going to get very ugly and then the Chinese are going to take Kim out.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
fair
We’ll see if Trump’s EO travel ban qualifies as “lazy action” too. Trump said a TEMPORARY travel ban was needed to give government agencies time to develop a stricter vetting system and ensure that visas were not issued to individuals posing a national security threat. Don’t hear much these days from the admin about how this so called temporary program is being resolved w/ balanced solutions. Likely under Jared’s purview.
.Vetting — extreme vetting — is done at embassies and consulates in the field.I have a school mate in the DHS who has Brownsville to El Paso. He is a senior chap, retired USMC full Colonel.He says they are doing in the field what needs to be done. We are likely never to know what the changes are.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
andyswan:we were agreeing with the view minus the usual Rightwing sling, then you used words to describe a person that doesn’t present or possess what we understandare the qualities of an Adult.Party line views stink despite the seven up-votes. (Didn’t realize the original poster can up-vote themselves)https://www.brookings.edu/b…
always vote for yourself
andyswan:up-voting yourself well played.
my grandparents were immigrants — in history, that is the day before yesterday. https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
.How can I get one of those?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
One of a kind, and iconic http://www.smithsonianmag.c…
Legal or illegal? Let me guess: Legal.
if before 1917 and not chinese (which Laurie as far as I know doesn;t have any chinese ancestors), the answer to that question is immigration policy when her ancestors came didn’t really define legal or illegal outside of not being sick with something like Dysentery or TB. And if you got over your TB/Dysentery, you could try again. This was despite people like Father Caughlin and earlier Nativists like the “Know-Nothings”.Hell, to point, I think Steve Bannon’s first Bannon ancestor to the US, a guy named Lawrence/Laurence Bannon, snuck onto and then off steerage during the Great Potato Famine, since I’m having a near impossible time finding his immigration record (though I did find a record of his marriage in dublin and then a record of being drafted for the civil war in Maryland – just no explanation how he got to the US). And yet we’re not sitting around complaining Steven Bannon is an illegal immigrant because his first american ancestor has no records of getting here. We accept him as a legal US citizen, along with every male ancestor he had in the US outside of Lawrence (can’t find naturalization records either for him!)Why should Steve Bannon be more privileged than these kids because of the era his ancestors chose to immigrate? Or me (or maybe even you, I don’t know your real name and don’t know anything about your genealogy)
You should donate that channukiah to a museum if your family doesn’t use it, as that’s a really amazing example of Jewish Americana. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear its not mine it’s in the smithsonian
that makes more sense
ooo, fun, related story. I actually saw my grandfather’s hagaddah (once, my dad is protective of the haggadah), and if I remember correctly, it might have god bless america in it.
All immigrants are dreamers
Always curious what those who are against a permanent fix suggest be done with the children of the DREAMers – i.e., many of the DREAMers now are old enough to have children of their own, and THOSE children ARE US citizens. Foster homes?
I sincerely believe this is Trumps way to get Democrats and Republicans to work together on something and get it done. (In fact, his talk yesterday was much more in line with typical Democrat thinking.) These children need a clear and expedient path to citizenship. So this can get done.Despite what the media says – he is no bumbling fool. For anyone who watches – Trump is clearly sending a message that laws should be enacted by Congress. And he is exposing their massive dysfunction. Government via Executive Action is not what the founding fathers intended.Kudos to you and Albert for not taking the default “POTUS is killing our children” approach. Maybe there is hope after all!
Great post.
Two somewhat incongruous points:Point 1: Re “Fix it.”Who here is running for office?Who has held office, whether that’s as a US Senator or as, say, a member of a board of selectmen (as, interestingly, the drummer for Phish has in Lincolnville, Maine to lead by example around getting involved)?Fred, you’d make a great mayor some day. I’m like the 20,000th person to say that.There are a bunch of regulars here who would probably be great public officials.We need our best and brightest to serve – as painful and horrible as that sounds. Time for talk and tweets are over. We need smart people taking action. It’s not enough anymore to just leave it to the next woman or man to run. If you leave it to the JV team, that’s what you’ll get — JV.Point 2: Post-governmental eraI increasingly think many people, especially young people, are viewing government in general and politicians in particular as inert – totally incapable of doing anything.Hence you’re seeing more efforts like the crowdsourced recovery in Houston referenced last week a couple times, and featured on Forbes yesterday (see https://www.forbes.com/site….Folks see what’s obvious: our current political leaders, again on left just as on right, are incapable and unwilling to do much more that tweet and posture (and that’s not just POTUS I’m referring to).Regular folks are moving on and creating new structures to fill the void.
Fixed a couple typos in my comment above.A few more thoughts as I was taking kids to school.I think when we Americans lament “we don’t make anything anymore” we are really saying “we don’t do anything anymore.”Many folks work for mid to larger organizations. And most people who work in larger organizations, private or public sector, know – or should know – that the way to get ahead is definitely not to “do.” Look at most large organizations out there. The people at the point of value creation – to do-ers that create products, talk to customers, etc. – are the déclassé. The way you rise in such organizations is making pretty PowerPoints, mastering the corporate court speech and customs, and staying middle of the herd. Frequents posts of Ted Talks to LinkedIn. But never take risks. Never be associated with even the whiff of failure. Ever. In other words, those who can’t do, manage, and with management comes promotion and material comfort.This toxic work culture permeates and pollutes our politics. We now no longer know what actual action – the doing – looks like. What it feels like. In corporations we promote people based on writing (or, more correctly, conning, Tom Sawyer style, someone else to write) the PowerPoint about the idea of a project – not actual execution and delivery of the project (the wise “corporate rebel” will always leave delivery to a do-er to avoid any form of measurable accountability). Our politics and civics model this behavior by mistaking tweeting, posting, commenting, and even polite protest with the actual action of not just effecting policy but implementing the policy on the ground.This prioritization of rhetoric over action is it at odds with our national narrative. A facet of American mythology is one of self-reliance. Of the pioneer and his young family left to their own devices in the high plains. Of do or die.The American instinct to do (or die) is not in of itself dead. Disasters like 9/11, Sandy, Harvey, and Irma show that. When their backs are the wall, Americans will do and do well. We survive.But we appear unable to “do” until pressed. Maybe that was always the case – we were hardly early to either of the the last two world wars. DACA is a crisis of its own making — an invented urgency to force action.So, upon reflection, should I wring my hands that so few will step up, get active, and run for office? Sure we’re post on Facebook about needing “new blood” to run. But who actually will?Or should I take heart that people see the political body for what it is – a bloated monopolistic incumbent rife for disruption and that with that recognition people are creating new structures and modes of working, such as what’s on display now with Harvey relief and Irma preparation?As it is so always, perhaps it’s a bit of both.
.You seem to be caught in some kind of downdraft or swirl.Come to Texas (I will cover your meals and beer — BBQ and Shiner) and spend a few days in the Oil Patch and see if you still believe that Americans are not as productive, hard working, inspired, and successful as they ever have been.Your view is a coastal view not supported by reality which lives in the hinterlands.The US energy industry, with the advent of the Trump administration, is a house on fire.Just using the energy sector as an example.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Actually quite the contrary. Lots of good stuff happening. Maybe because I don’t drink (I’ll take you up for the BBQ though If I am down that way – can we head to Lockhart?), I just look at things as clear eyed as I can and call them as I see them. Many of our organizational cultures are toxic and I think that’s seeping into how we approach politics.That Americans are productive and hard working you’ll never hear me debate. Inspired? Less sure. And successful is in some doubt, at least on a national scale.
.The vast majority of Americans have no interest in or involvement in politics. Ask the next 10 people you meet to name their Congressman.If more than half know the right name, I buy you a steak.See this picture. This is America. Look at this guy and see if you can guess his politics. Look at this woman and see if she cares about his politics.That is America.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca… https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
I hear your point. Where I think we may disagree is that my New England upbringing in “Yankeedom” (see http://www.businessinsider…. taught me that there in no option to opt-out to civic participation.All the town’s people are expected to the town meeting. I know that much of the rest of country (and knew that before reading “American Nations”) don’t see it that way, but the instinct that participation (and that goes beyond just voting) is not optional is hard to shake.
.One of the hardest things for anyone to understand is why anyone would not want to participate. As an Election Judge, I see it first hand when less than 50% show up for elections and less than 75% of the country is even registered to vote.OTOH, if we are to be a free people, you have to be able to exercise that freedom as you want.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
I approve of Yankeeness and town meetings. More people don’t feel vested, and maybe finding out that small scale town meetings and voting procedures in the new england style (maybe on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis for say, zoning) would hugely improve the US culture towards politics and how we see political differences with our neighbors
Being humane exists in America. And being humane exists outside America.http://mashable.com/2017/08…http://www.hindustantimes.c…
.Nobody has a monopoly on goodness. Mankind is a good and kind species. I am sorry if my words intimated otherwise.We do have better BBQ in Texas. On that, I will not negotiate or equivocate. Sorry.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
To my taste, Memphis chopped pork shoulder BBQ is a little better than Texas beef BBQ. The Memphis stuff, from the pork, is softer, has nicer fat distribution, is more moist and more “succulent”. It’s super tough and tricky to get beef BBQ even nearly as good as pork shoulder BBQ; Texas does this, but starting with beef instead of pork is a big handicap.
.OK, let me admit I have strayed from the pure and narrow on occasion. Yes, I love a bit of Memphis Q and even some Eastern NC Lexington Q. But, my favorite is some good old fashioned smoked Texas BBQ and I love beef ribs.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
That guy, no one will mess with him! He likes dirt bags and eats them raw, 100%, bones and all, at every opportunity!She never felt safer in her life!
We will pop a Dr Pepper or two down the hatch ( they have a version called Dr Pepper 10 – not diet, 1o cals a can).
OMG Fred would be a horrible mayor.He is in the perfect place for his skills.
depends on the place. Some places like having mayors that are more similar to Fred, some don’t.
I don’t mean policies, I mean personality.All of the complaints from people about Obama ( introvert, bias to info gathering over action, auto didact versus delegator, etc. ).And to be clear, I prefer competence ( Mayor Turner is a Dem, Harris County Commissioner Ed Emmett is a Rep – I don’t care ).
Dreamers shouldn’t be treated as pawns in a game of political chess. Their status should have been solved long ago, and that’s def on Congress. But this situation also demonstrates how EO’s can both undermine and provide solutions to legislative gridlock, with often where/how they are applied seemingly quite random and dictatorial, but at the end of the day, nothing undermines our gov’t’s ability to lead more than partisan politics. Trump’s approach to debt ceiling demonstrates he’s not beholden to any party, and that in itself is quite refreshing, but he’s got a long way to go in coalescing the swamp w/ meaningful, balanced solutions consistent w/ his stated agenda (e.g., healthcare, tax reform, infrastructure, immigration).
It was significant that trump sent sessions out to laugh at these people. The immigration argument throughout our history has always been one of maintaining a level of “racial purity” Trump just piggy backed on this lunacy as some form of diversion from his utter and complete incompetence..
Sessions is the guy, I believe, that gave Trump the extremely true message: ” People come to America because we uphold the rule of law. “Its a pillar of western democracy that has been eroded by the acidic conditions of the swamp in DC. Congress – which includes both parties to be clear – may have an 8% approval rating for this reason alone.I can’t think of a President with a strong moral compass AND a commitment to uphold the rule of law, since Bush 41. Obama’s greatest weakness was his arrogance and his willingness to patch things (mainly b/c he had never gotten things done and did not have the skills to fix the things he wanted to fix, so he did the best he could.)Trump has the skills to get things done. Did you hear Lindsey Graham this week?
Of course lying to congress during your own confirmation hearing is certainly abiding by the “rule of law”
Tom, I doubt I can change your view.However, I bet neither of us are 1/3 as busy as Sessions – playing calendar “gothca” is pointless. One of the worst things about MSM in the last 2 decades.I think he is a guy who got railroaded by Ted Kennedy 30 years ago and still fights the basic personality defect that a lot of highly analytic, uber-bright people fight: that people basically are not going to screw you because you are trying to solve problems.That’s my take on Sessions – he’s naive, more than evil.Did you hear Graham this week? He sounded like he had never known what he was supposed to do as a Senator until Trump told him. He looked and sounded relieved. It was insane.
I started to learn and love American ideas and products when I was around 6. It was repeats of Tom&Jerry, Bugs Bunny, Road Runner and the universes of ‘Star Wars’+’Star Trek’ that did it. Later, I was introduced to American Lit. (SE Hinton) and discovered writers like Paul Auster on my own. It was different from the Chinese culture I was born into (and also love) and different from European culture which formed another part of my education (and also love).Right now, the States is in this situation and it’s sad. https://uploads.disquscdn.c… https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Come on Twain.Micheal Bennett got racially profiled in LV @ the MacGregor / Mayweather fight. What happened to him was atrocious and indicative of the corroded state of policing in America.http://www.huffingtonpost.c…However, MIchael Bennett is in a position to sue the handcuffs off of those officers and the LVPD & has the American Dream to thank for that (i.e., talent + hard work = status & $$$. Here’s hoping he decides to pursue it – he has retained counsel – and ends up nearly bankrupting the city of LV.The American Dream is still alive. It just needs to have some citizens force it to go to the gym more.
.Actually, there is a police chest cam of the entire incident. Nobody wins the Gloria Vanderbilt manners award, but MB is full of crap. Never happened the way he said it did.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
What about the millions of people who are biased against because a clique of Silicon Valley bros can’t code their way out of a paper bag and solve this problem that’s now on the World Economic Forum agenda? https://uploads.disquscdn.c…@fredwilson:disqus — Now Google is going after trolls with its Perspective NLP tool. The Fortune article has a video of Dick Costolo saying how Twitter sucked at dealing with trolls.http://fortune.com/2017/09/…Guess what that Google Perspective tool decided about James Damore’s memo?“3% likely to be viewed as ‘toxic.’”https://www.forbes.com/site…Literally, investors let bros burn $$$ on useless tools whilst female engineers who could solve these hard problems aren’t given the resources to do so.It’s all so wrong.
This is a great example of success breeding stupidity.But, to be clear, there are ‘bros’ outside the SV club too.That was the first marginalized group that Fred courted as a VC, after all.SV is also a swamp in many ways Any highly successful small community has swamp tendencies.
Humans are intelligent because we have female X code and male Y code inherited from our parents.Silicon Valley’s Y-only code means the industry is at risk of not being able to produce intelligent products in the same way as the Chinese where male:female engineers is at 60:40 which is double that of SV’s.https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
My point is that superficial exclusion is a bit of a mask – competitive people like to build boundaries to competitors.Interesting point – where is the XY intelligence datapoint source from, he asked, knowing he would get a citation…..
Citation from no less than Cambridge University:* http://www.independent.co.u…
🙂
Have you been to that nightclub??? I ashamedly can say I have. Not a good place.
I have not done any research on the Bennett situation – I will add an addendum that says, IF, he was treated atrociously….then …..What club? Need to know now.
.The immigration policies of the United States of America are codified in laws.Passing laws is the exclusive responsibility of the US Congress made up of the House of Representative and the Senate. When they pass a law, it must be ratified by the President of the US. If he does not ratify it or if he vetoes it, the Congress may override that veto.For years President Obama said he could not use executive action to implement any of a number of immigration issues. Then, one day he did.He did not pass a law through the Congress, he just scratched some thoughts into an Executive Order and said, “OK, I told y’all I didn’t have this authority, but Valerie Jarrett says I do. Who knew?”So, he issued an Executive Order.Nobody thinks his action conformed to the Constitution of the US — laws being assigned to the Congress by the Constitution. His actions were wholly outside the law, far beyond any imagined authority, beyond the pale of what his inner Constitutional lawyer being told him he could do. But, he did it.What Donald J Trump has done is to give fair warning that Pres Obama’s Executive Order was unconstitutional. He stated in public what every member of Congress has known for years.He gave the US Congress six months in which to fix the problem.For the record, the US Congress has had no fewer than seven opportunities to fix this specific problem which garnered sufficient support to fix this problem by passing a law.Who kept that from happening? Democrats who would not act on a piecemeal basis and stood obstinately for a “comprehensive” solution which included this fix.The Dems used the issue as a wedge issue to try and force a larger deal. Back in the Gang of Eight days, they came very close, but could not get it done.To refresh y’all’s memory, Pres Obama had a very supportive Congress during his first two years and could have dealt with immigration in the same manner as he did Obamacare. For whatever reason, he did not.Please stop your whining — Pres Trump did not terminate the DACA program. What his Executive Order did was one thing: NO NEW APPLICATIONS AFTER TUESDAY, 9-5-2017.Take a deep breath. The program has been around since 2012. There are almost no current applications.Pres Trump also provided that renewals — remember, it is a two year DEFERRAL — will be routinely considered. No change to renewals.All President Trump has done is to stop kicking the can down the road and inform Congress that they need to do their job.This is just like North Korea which has been kicked down the road, until we realized that a nuclear, ICBM armed NK was at the end of that road.Stop hyperventilating. The problem is now where it was always supposed to be — the ineffectual, do-nothing US Congress.Does anyone even remotely believe this is not going to be a general amnesty? Anybody.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Laws? “What laws? We don’t need no stink’n laws!”.To the anti-Trump people, there are, sure, maybe in some dusty, old books, some laws, but there are also other ways to make government decisions! E.g., there are emotions! Before the emotions there can be propaganda. Before that are the lies, distortions, etc.! Then there is the urge of people to fit in! In Manhattan, they want to fit in with whatever is in the NYT. Then in Manhattan ABC, CBS, CNN (Manhattan branch!), MSNBC, and NBC all want to follow what is in the NYT! Then SF and DC want the same.
To think that this president wouldn’t do something like this is like not watching anything for the last 6 months. He will take the most racist, elitist, divisive, immoral issue and amplify it – and then laugh at those “snowflakes” who scream foul.we are in a post truth, nothing is off limits world.
.Totally hyperbolic reaction. Pres Trump told the US Congress that they need to do their job. Nothing more.He did not terminate the prior Obama era Executive Order. He said, “No new applications after 9-5-2012.”Renewals are to be administered without change.Nobody is being deported.The Obama Executive Order — which for years he said he did not have the authority to issue — was unconstitutional. Find anyone who thinks it was.Pres Trump told the US Congress, “Deal with this. Y’all are the law makers. Make a law. You have six months and, thereafter, I will deal with it.”Pres Obama created this mess.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Not hyperbolic at all. Your response confirms such. A bot could literally generate your responses at this stage.
.Mark, my comment contains facts. Your comment contains emotions.They are different things.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Your ending with the statement “obama created this mess” bollox is a close second to sessions coming out and sniggering at the whole thing….
Are you saying that Obama was unwilling or unable to do what Trump did this week?Obama was a huge disappointment to me. I knew he was a paper tiger when Rahm Emmanuel became CoS.You do not campaign on Hope and Change and then hand the reins of your presidency to the ultimate, old school, back room, ‘ I got pictures of you with a goat’ guy on Capitol Hill.Remember, he had Chris Hughes – FB founder – on his campaign staff and was in the perfect position to bring an entirely knew, transparent, direct to the voter approach to the Hill…..and didn’t.His support for Hillary Clinton was unimaginable and inexcusable – he helped put Trump in office, FWIW. He had to know she was running the DNC like it was Venezuela.That he set up a Foundation after leaving the Presidency is the perfect bookend to his Change Agent charade.BTW, I think he had good intentions on change, just no clue how to do it when it got tough. He retreated – he’s an introvert loner, not an introvert dominator like Trump.
> Obama was a huge disappointment to me.Shouldn’t be: There was plenty of evidence of just what the heck he was long before he got elected.He can be clever. He’s a good actor, especially in some of his speeches.But, and my view is that the evidence for anyone who wants to look, is that basically he hates the US, wanted to bring it down several levels, and did. I believe he is mostly for the Sunnis, but he seems also to like the Shiites.
.OK, maybe I misread the signature on the Executive Order. Let me check again.Nope, turns out the DACA Executive Order was signed by “Barack H Obama”. So, yes, BHO created this mess.Worst. President. Ever.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
thats right – you were on here asking for a passport check a few years back. my bad i forgot.
.Come on, Mark, that’s lame. Shouldn’t it be more like a birth certificate check? Get your slurs right, shall we?I am in favor of a very radical idea — enforce the law.The adjunct is — let Congress make the laws, not the President.Wildly radical ideas.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
How about this wildly radical fact. you are coming on here screaming rule of law, and obama was the devil and all this other unempathetic and frankly to most – frightening stuff….and i merely did the board a favor by letting the new ones know that you were a birth certificate shill.as they read your stuff – this should be known. Its context – and important context at that.
.Let me assist you. To this day, I believe there was something wrong with Pres Obama’s birth certificate situation. I still do.I also think DJT was a draft dodger who used supposed bone spurs to get out of the Vietnam Era draft. I despise cowards who were not willing to do what was asked of them. Dick Cheney is another draft dodger.WTF does that have to do with the facts of this discussion?I deal in facts. You deal in slurs, emotional claptrap, and character assassination of the messenger.I’m fine with that. Move on before I tell you a war story.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
JLM, I did not know this. But if you were indeed asking for BHO birth certificate and were a birther, it is disgraceful.You would do well to at least accept you were wrong and your speculations were misguided.
.As you well know, Cave, I have been “disgraceful” in all ways always. You, of all people, should not feign surprise. It is unbecoming of you.I subscribe to the theory of “never complain, never explain,” but one should consider the source before jumping to any conclusions.I do think there is something odd about BHO’s life story. The missing transcripts have always bothered me more than the birth certificate.Just like John Kerry was so damn smart until his transcript showed GWB got better grades at Yale. You know the kind of thing when the actual facts indict the biases and legends. That kind of thing.Please add to the stock of disgracefulness at your leisure. Just don’t find fault with my facts or arguments. I feel bad as I don’t care as deeply for others as some do.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
I am not speaking in generalities. I actually learn a lot from listening to your views. But it is this specific action (doubting his country of birth, questioning grades, etc..) that seems wrong and classless.Disagree with his policies all that you want, but getting ad hominem and deeply personal without any shred of evidence because you dislike his approach or politics is plain disgraceful. ( There were contemporaneous reports of his birth in Hawaii for God’s sake).
.Give it a rest.There is nothing even remotely ad hominem about curiosity as to someone’s college grades.Obama was held out as a Harvard Law Editor, a proxy for legal scholarship excellence. I wonder if it is true? I truly doubt it.You are getting a little preachy. It doesn’t become you.As to his birth certificate, it was a long time coming. I was once in a line of work that developed a bit of expertise as it related to altering documents. Someone I know who is quite expert voiced misgivings.Other than that one Christmas party with the human sacrifice, I never did anything even remotely related to the birther issue. I sort of wish he was born somewhere odd. I like a bit of intrigue. As I recall, his presidency is finished. Officially, I mean.Do not believe everything you hear from the jackoffs on this blog. You might even want to develop some actual evidence I did anything before you accuse me of anything.At least let me commit the crime before you castigate me or I will tell Arnold W and he will block you.Sheesh!JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
yeah, I hate being preachy. That is not me.But..the Obama birther thing pisses me off big time. It is clear to me that he is a person of high integrity and wants nothing but the best for the country. People can disagree with his policies without needing to question his birth, grades, and morality. That is simply not right.
.It’s a little hard to embrace the notion the guy is a man of any integrity. Research his earlier electoral campaigns. He is a street fighting thug.His lies as it relates to Obamacare were obvious, pre-meditated, focus grouped, and blatant. He was a cold blooded liar.As to his grades, I am totally lost as to why being curious about anyone’s college grades is off limits?I once said I was #1 in my class at VMI. Someone called me out on that. We bet $100 on it. I won the bet. At no time did I feel like it was even remotely personal.Go about our days, shall we? I think he’s the Worst. President. Ever. You do not. We can live in the same world. He is “FORMER President Obama” which is the sweetest construct of letters in the English language.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
I see that you exaggerate and magnify Obama’s personal faults while consistently glossing over and minimizing Trump’s.Maybe a question for you to ponder over: Have you ever admitted you were wrong or even if you might be wrong on anything? Personal judgments about people you do not know really well are more often than not probabilities, that are also distorted by mental models and biases. We do not know enough to know for sure.
That is utterly shocking you believe this. It makes you seem like you don’t want to be logical, which I don’t think that normally this is your flavor. We’ve seen his birth certificate, and yet you still something wrong with it?!It is the equivalent of thinking that either party would be dumb enough or unserious enough[1] to explicitly disobey the constitution. Alternatively, it is the equivalent of thinking that Hawai’i isn’t fully a state, despite being admitted to the Union in 1959, because they prefer keeping short form birth certificates.I hope you think that the people who vet candidates even for a primary aren’t stupid enough to allow a non-citzen, or that Hawai’i, for whatever the procedural differences there are compared to Texas, is fully a state and can record its birth, marriages, divorces, and deaths competently.[1]I’m ignoring Ted Cruz’s really weird status for a second, though I think if he did move to a general election candidate it could spark a constitutional issue. This is despite John McCain’s candidacy and his birth in Panama in the US controlled zones.
With you 100 percent on the comment and the retort.Nicely said
You are better than that.@jlm has come down off the high of getting someone who will force things to be done in the WH.
You may have a point: It can appear that early on Trump assumed that as POTUS with a Republican majority in both houses of Congress, he could put forward a good program, one the people at his rallies liked, get it through Congress, and get it implemented.But by now he has understood that there are a lot of special interests, Democrats, Republicans, and special interests who don’t care about either party but only their own interests, who have reason, usually just money, to slow Trump.So, Trump, a smart cookie, bright guy, fast learner, actually quite good reading and working with people, great at getting people at rallies screaming “USA!”, a winner, with the enormous power of being POTUS, has found some new and more effective approaches.
Mark, I keep telling people I am a Trump Objectivist. I live here now, but its not like I can vote or anything.Trump does some things that are completely driven by his sociopathic need for success, based on a very odd definition of success (Norman Vincent Peale was the pastor of his childhood church, remember).However, at this point in his life, he is quite likely one of the most effective people on the planet and has surrounded himself with many people you could describe in that fashion (Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly, Mnuchin, Cohn, etc.). In other spots, where it makes sense, he has chosen the smartest people on the planet ( Mulvaney, Bannon, it looks like Sara H-S may qualify too.)He is not afraid of being wrong and improving while in progress (e.g., he learned what he needed by having Spicer be Press Secretary and appears to have crushed the hire with Sara H-S).The biggest risk – and it is a huuuuge risk – he has taken is adopting Bannon’s strategy of courting every white vote you can find in the 30-50 counties in WI, MI, OH, PA & FLA that would allow him to carry the Electoral College.His willingness to do whatever is required to get the job done is his greatest strength but is also, when overused, his greatest weakness. We will see if he can fix enough long standing problems to make that society dividing gamble payoff.
Fred, speaking of nightmares, this thread. Pretty toxic. Nuclear brinkmanship with NK is not statesmanship; the idea that DT is making progress on the national debt (while introducing the largest % increase in military spending in recent history) is comical; and climate denialism (see DT’s speech in North Dakota yesterday) – in the face of Harvey, Irma, wildfires, droughts, record temps everywhere, and situations far worse in South Asia and Africa than here – is suicidal. Also, canceling DACA in the midst of all these crises is characteristically petty, targeting our society’s most vulnerable at a time when many of them (like the 80K DACAmented people in Houston) are already in crisis. Let’s set aside this nation’s lunatic middle of MAGA folk though: When did immigration become “legal”? When the first Europeans arrived, initiating a centuries-long genocide of native peoples? Or when they brought the first African slaves to North America from Africa and the Caribbean (and were those slaves “legal” or “illegal”)? Or when “No Irish or dogs” was still a commonplace? Or at the time of the explicitly racist Chinese Exclusion Act? Or of the equally racist Immigration Act of 1924? Or during the so-called Mexican Repatriation, when hundreds of thousands, if not more than a million Mexican-American citizens of the US were summarily and unilaterally deported to Mexico? Speaking of which, did the Mexicans annexed when we conquered much of their territory enter this country “legally” or “illegally”? I could go on, but lack the time. Someone will say, but that was the past; we aren’t so racist now. Allow me to preempt that. That (seemingly almost exclusively white male) citizens of a county that maintains more than 800 “overseas” military bases, that sows conflict on every continent in pursuit of its own self-interest, that has led the world into an era overshadowed by the twin nightmares of nuclear annihiliation and climate change, can be having this conversation bespeaks just what type of country and world we live in. Not in a position to follow this thread going forward today, so I’ll let that be my last word on the matter.
Too bad, you would learn a lot. Post on immigration history, etc.
Read the entire thread prior to posting. Thanks. https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Try some critical thinking? Is racism an exclusive characteristic of white people? Are boarder laws the limited to United States? Is weather hardship limited to DACA residents ? Is global warming an abortion litmus test? Is the Irish racism you spoke of directed to black Irish or is red hair / pale skin now a considered people of color..
In order: Always. No. Think you mean border. Obviously not. No comment. And at that point in history, Irish were not considered white in America, as Jews were not, for example, until around the time of Podhoretz’s (in)famous 1963 essay. All of this being fundamentally orthogonal to the point that American immigration law is, and always has been, deeply racist, and that, as Americans, we have a duty to acknowledge and remedy that fact. https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
I think that the superficial focus is an error.People who think they are entitled to something have always wanted to horde it. Every wave of immigration has met resistance.If you read my comments, Trump gambled for every white voter he could find in key counties that carried the Electoral College. Now, he has to turn that gamble into a win.He has turned Build the Wall & Dreamers into a focused, deadlined immigration reform bill from Congress – or, at least, he aspires to that.Not a bad start.
No country has a moral obligation to admit immigrants. There is nothing immoral about the traditional US immigration policies, procedures, and laws.There are plenty of people who want to disagree, make lots of wild, emotional claims.But what is really going on is clear: Follow the money. The main motivation is not morality at all but just money, import a new version of slave labor.
So the 2M Irish Immigrants who came to the US is not an example of deeply racist immigration law? Or is an example of deeply racist immigration law?
.If one studies the days of Cromwell and the Irish Solution, one is confronted with the brutality of the English against the Irish, the wholesale seizure of Ireland land by the English from the Irish, the “transportation” of the Irish to the Colonies and the Islands, the sexual enslavement of Irish women by the English, and the enslavement of the Irish by the English with the spritz of nose gay called “indenture.”There were Irish slaves in the Island and the Colonies long before there were African slaves. The English were a brutal bunch.There are a number of great, recent books on the subject.I am a Brennan from the County Cork, not the city.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
We have made a lot of progress in the US• In 1850 on Yom Kippur Eve, in the first example of the blood libel hysteria in the U.S., a mostly Irish Brooklyn mob of 500, including policemen, wrecked a Jewish home and adjoining synagogue because of rumors that Jews had killed a Christian girl for her blood.• In 1870, the “Irish World” published a cartoon showing Baron Rothschild dressed as Shylock and wielding a knife.• In 1902, heavily Irish workers rained down bricks, then popularly called “Irish confetti,” on the 25,000 East Side Jews marching Chief Rabbi Jacob Joseph’s funeral procession, while the Irish police—rather than repressing the anti-Jewish violence—joined in with their billy clubs.• In 1927, in response Warner Bros.’ “Irish Hearts” and MGM’s “The Callahans and the Murphys,” Irish Catholic newspapers equated Hollywood’s “Jewish Trust” with “perverts and pimps” for making fun of the Irish or—worse yet—picturing Jewish boys marrying Irish girls; they also incited violent attacks on Jewish theater managers.• In the late 1930s, longstanding gang battles between Irish and Jewish youngsters (with the Jews mostly on the receiving end) were ominously politicized by fascist “radio priest” Father Charles whose “The Christian Front” organized anti-Jewish boycotts, incited street violence, and (according to the FBI) inspired a fringe element that planned to bomb Jewish institutions and assassinate prominent Jews. In New York as well as Boston, such fascist-tinged attacks on Jews persisted into 1943.
.Holy shit! Who would have ever thought it? The Irish have some bad folks amongst them? They also drink a lot, love to fight, and are gamblers and lousy poets.Hitler tried to kill all the Jews in the world. That scar isn’t going to heal itself.Being a Jew has been a hard gig for a long time and continues to this day. One of the reasons, I support Israel.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
and the “Know-Nothings” would have done anything to make sure your family never made it here, on the sheer basis that they were Irish and Catholic. Your family came here for a reason, whatever that may be, and there were people here when they came who functionally hated them for coming here because of who they were. Even if your ancestors were starving and illiterate with no opportunities – and that was the reason they came, there were people at the time who stood around and said these people should be illegal, they are stupid and lowlifes who drink too much.So why do you choose to sound like a Know-Nothing against people who are coming here for similar reasons as your own ancestors?
Sorry, I thought I already DeVito’ed this. Good examples of our deeply racist immigration policy would include those I mentioned in my original comment, as well as our current immigration paradigm, which privileges immigrants who are white and/or rich and/or from OECD countries, etc. That millions of Irish (including my ancestors) happened to come to this country – primarily as indentured servants and later as low-wage laborers “necessary” for the progress of industrialization – says about as much re: the inherent racism of our immigration and economic systems as does the current predicament of millions of undocumented people and migrant workers in the US today. Bear in mind, the Irish were fleeing the ravages of British colonialism, just as many Central Americans today are fleeing the ravages of American – @fredwilson:disqus, as mentioned, things getting pretty toxic over here in this troll-ridden, fact-free zone. Very little in the way of social, political, or historical consciousness in evidence. I have faith in your good intentions, but am not convinced that what’s passing for discourse over here is benefitting anyone.
I agree, you have a hammer and everything to you looks like a nail.
I’ll leave the irony of your mis-use of the adage to the keen reader. Taking a pass on further interaction, but wish you all the best, Richard.
I think I misunderstood that you had read comments to this point.
i am in favor of discussion. it’s not pretty. but its effective. i learn a lot from people i don’t agree with.
As do I, but with which people? Almost all male, almost all white commenters here. Heavy presence of supporters of DT. Labeling people “illegal” from vantage of pompous legalistic xenophobia. Cherrypicking Wiki-factoids for purpose of trolling, and embracing 4D chess-type of interpretations of DT’s actions (he’s hurting some immigrants now to help all immigrants later!) but with zero sense of the actual history of this country. There are enough toxic, unmoderated places on the internet for “discussion” – I only ventured into the comments to let you know – as it turned out others already had – about the minor (but crucial) lapse in your post lest you find yourself criticized for it from a place of ungenerosity, but was disheartened at what I found. Love A VC, and will simply avoid these threads in the future, but wonder – with almost no women, no people of color, no actual immigrants commenting, how valuable is such a conversation, except perhaps from an anthropological perspective?
I’ve formed a jaded view of this problem. Our population is in decline. Our replenishment rate is 1.9 vs 2.1 which is needed for growth. That said, our sloppy immigration policies partially mitigate the decline, and cheaply, because undocumented and Dreamers aren’t extended the full social safety net.
Great angle on this Grace.Never thought of it. Post more!
.If one is going to delve into DACA, then one has to understand the spillover implications of DAPA.Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals = DACADeferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents = DAPAThis was a bit of slight of hand which gave an illegal alien two opportunities to DEFER action — meaning avoid deportation.DACA created the conditions under which a potential deportee could avoid deportation under DAPA.DAPA was backdated to be effective two years earlier than DACA and was not the subject of an Executive Order. It was pushed by the head of DHS, Jeh Johnson. DHS is the parent body for ICE and USCIS.These programs are both administrative gum which prevents the gears from moving.DACA is always referred to “children” though the eligibility has always been up to thirty-one years old. DACA is always described as a “small” program.DAPA is founded, in part, on the presence of a DACA eligible person in the family. DAPA has an enormous pool of eligibility.Taken together, it is all just a carefully orchestrated scam. From the start, this has been nothing but a game.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
At least 2/3 of Americans support DACA, and about 1/3 supports Trump. Is there an overlap?There is no doubt that it would be better for Congress to pass a law to make the Dreamers’ status clear. When they failed to do so, Obama acted. The Deferred Action didn’t mean that Obama deferred. He is the one who did something. The Deferred Action means that the Dreamers’ ultimate fate (citizenship, kicked out, etc.) is deferred. Since it was an executive order, deferring is all Obama could do.Obama showed sympathy for the Dreamers, which most Americans share. Trump’s latest moves with Congress (punting DACA to them, teaming up with the Democrats on the debt ceiling) are interesting. His base will follow him anywhere, but the rank and file Republicans can’t be too happy.I would love to see Congress take action to give the Dreamers a permanent status and a path to citizenship. We need more of these kind of hard-working law-abiding people in this country, not fewer. It would be interesting to see ICE rounding up a member of the military and deporting them if their DACA status expires in March…
.Calm down. The only action taken by Pres Trump was to stop receiving new applications effective 5 September 2017.Renewals of all existing DACA beneficiaries will be routinely considered. It is a two year program of deferral.If you are in the military, you are eligible to become a citizen when you finish basic training. When I was in the Army, twice a year, I had ceremonies in my unit to welcome new citizens.The ability to become a citizen through military service is one of the best kept secrets in the US. One does not have to be a citizen to join. One has to swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.Pres Trump told Congress what they need to hear, “Get to work. Pass some laws. Stop whining.”Know the facts. Fight fair. Have a great day.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Don’t tell me to calm down. Tell the Dreamers whose status in this country is put at risk by this action to calm down, if you dare.
Their status in the country was put at risk by their parents.There is no other way to look at it.
Well, yes, their parents put their status at risk originally. Then, Obama gave them a way to be here legally for a while, to work and join the military. Trump’s action, which was opposed by many Republican Congressional leaders, puts their current status back at risk again. For what gain?
.No current DACA person is at risk because of Pres Trump’s action. The only action he took was to terminate new applications on a 5-year old program.All current DACA participants can renew their status as provided for in the rules.Anybody in Congress who is interested can assist in passing the appropriate law to solve the problem. Congress is the lawmaker under our system.Congress, do your job.Know the facts.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
To solve the problem and quit kicking the can down the road.
.OK, let’s go through this one more time — the President’s XO closes new applications. The program is 5 years old. There are no new applications.Everyone in the program stays in the program. Renewals are handled as before, no change.Nobody who is a Dreamer right now is at jeopardy. Nobody gets deported.Deal with the truth and it will be easier to calm down. Calm down.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
They don’t get deported today. But, what will happen to them starting in March 2018? That’s when we will potentially stop renewing work permits.Put yourself in their shoes, with their future uncertain while considering themselves Americans as, for most, this is the only country they have known.Trump could have called on Congress to make this a permanent program without causing this added concern in their lives. After all, he says he “loves the Dreamers.”
.Any person in the US legally can pursue citizenship.Any member of the armed forces can apply for citizenship when they finish basic training.When I was an Army officer, I used to have a ceremony twice a year to welcome new citizens. We used to do all the paperwork for them.They did not even have to pass a test or speak English.The deadline is not March 2018, it is the six month deadline given to Congress.Does anyone think this is not going to end in a general amnesty? I am taking bets.You are engaging in hyperbolic speculation which is disconnected from fact.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Think of calm down as a rhetorical flourish indicating that you may not have the facts right.I mean, Jeff tends to have the facts at hand. He could just tell you that you don’t have the facts, but, style points…..
.Does anyone out there really believe this does not result in a GENERAL AMNESTY? Really?I predict the US Congress will vote a general amnesty for all DACA persons and their parents.I am taking bets starting ………………………………………….. now.Who will have made this happen?President Donald J Trump. Thank you, President Trump for being the only adult in Washington, DC.He will get the US Congress to do something that Pres Obama never could — address immigration.Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming: Trump bad.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
it took Nixon to go to China. that’s how these things work
.Like Nixon, President Trump will be remembered as the man who took the definitive step which forced the issue. Bravo for recognizing and celebrating that leadership triumph.In fact, it was Henry Kissinger’s secret contact with Zhou Enlai while on a trip to Pakistan that was the real breakthrough.Zhou and Kissinger were towering intellects and guided the one hour meeting between the failing health Mao and Nixon. Mao was a ruthless peasant military leader while Zhou was the brains of the operation.It takes forceful leadership to actually change things. It is good of you to recognize that.JLM http://www.themusingsofthebigredca...
As an outsider looking at this, I wished the USA would be less paranoic and become a more gentler, kinder nation. I see anger and unhappiness everywhere as soon as you touch a political topic.
There is a good reason for the paranoia obviously.Be wary of generalizations is all I can advise on this one.Want to know how deep and ugly this gets, listen to this podcast. Truly a scare.The Derek Black interview via The Daily podcast http://arnoldwaldstein.com/…
Its sad to see how pessimistic you are about America.As a Trump Objectivist, it is clear that he is a legitimate potential change agent for the malaise that has gripped DC for decades.That can spill out to society in general, especially if jobs show up.
No the media is trying to get you amped up. Please come here where there are those assholes but see the diversity. People think that places like Clanton AL are racist. I just was there. Who picked me up??? A black child who was taken in by the wealthiest family. He is considered a son. A son. That is not some northeast liberal helicopter shit. That is life.
I just may one of these days.I believe that on an average people are smarter and better people than you think.That is how I act and also how I market btw.This election, this interview above and the divisive disgusting behavior of the White House and the spineless crap on both sides of congress makes me think that the minority of people who indeed are racist may be much larger than I think.That the niche is scary large regardless of whether the percent is small.I’d like to be wrong. I don’t see anything to prove that.
.How many Nazis, KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, BLM persons do you know? There are a remarkably small number of shitheads in the world. They just get all the media attention.How many Manhattan liberals do you know? Where do they get their info from?Where does the condescension in the statement: “I believe that on an average people are smarter and better people than you think.” come from?Get out amongst the real world.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
JLM, you keep asking folks this Q: “How many Nazis, KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, BLM persons do you know?” as if being a member of any of those groups is the sole prerequisite for being a racist. It isn’t. Those are extremists, but there likely are far more racists who hide under the veil of immigration reform, national security, etc., without realizing that the tendencies they exhibit are indeed racist. There are degrees of racism, and it’s very easy to pinpoint extremists, but a lot less so to identify those exhibiting subtle tendencies who either don’t/can’t realize it or are in complete denial. Ethics and morality are the true discriminators of racism, not ones beliefs in the laws of the land or club membership.
.You have made my point, Salty.These shitheads are extremists.They are neither in high supply nor indicative of the country and yet they get huge amounts of media exposure as the media uses them for their own bastardized purpose.These extremists don’t even live in the places they foul.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Agree.
.OK, so you don’t know any KKK, Nazis, Antifa, white supremacists, BLM guys? Right?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
> tendencies they exhibit are indeed racist.Some US citizens are actually quite interested in US national security and enforcement of the long standing US policies, procedures, and laws on immigration and where racism has nothing to do with it.”Tendencies” is next to meaningless and sure as heck can’t be evidence of racism.If people interested in US national security are racist, then apparently racism is the single, universal motivation for all interests — that suits the Democrats where racism is the top playing card in their deck where the next one if sexism.
Racism isn’t partisan, my friend. Stop viewing everything through a political prism.
Nonsense. Again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time, this time just for you, and totally obvious, a charge of racism, now nearly always false, is the top playing card in the Democrat Party deck. Obvious.You’ve been taken in by the NYT-Hillary, Democrat, MSM Goebbels style (“Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it.” — IIRC) lying, distorted, faked-up, made-up, stirred-up, gang-up, upchuck, pile-on media.A dedicated devotee of that propaganda can find at least 10 rabid racists on any blank sheet of paper although may admit that it takes talent, training, and practice.
Here is my point. In the country people have to live with each other. I mean actually live with each other. Yes, it was different in the 1960’s but at this point nobody really cares because they have to live with each other, actually live with each other. In the city you can live in your own circle. Yes you can helicopter in, but here you live with people. You saw my story about the bed and fridges. Does anybody care at the Elkton, MD lanes if you get paired with a black person? (you pair up bowling based on handicap) No. If you had an issue, it would be you that would be shunned, they would ban you from the league. Who taught my wife to shoot 20 years ago? Randy a dreadlocked guy. We laughed so hard when I saw him this year with a shaved head and didn’t recognize him, he knew me, I said damn we both got old.People out here are angry, but is not at each other, that is what people don’t understand about Trump. See my other posts, they are angry at the establishment that thinks they have no value and are just stupid hicks that deserve to have their lives upended.
Helpful.I spent a bunch of years living super rural but it was in a different time.I admit, my perspective is urban, very diverse.I have very conservative politically friends but none who are Trump supporters.That’s simply reality.
You come and you have your own room.
😉
thank you for articulating this so well.
Here is what I can tell you from where I sit. Look up Cecil County, MDAre there deep and ugly people? Yes.Are there so many less in the last decade and is it decreasing? YesDoes Trump make more of them? No.Does the media saying that if you support Trump you are a racist make more? Yes.Seriously I don’t see why people can’t get this. If you say if you support Trump you therefore by definition a racist…..why not go all in??
I don’t think each and every person who voted for Trump is a racist.I do believe that he is the definition of one though.And to support someone who is one to any greater or any benefit is problematic to me.Trump is not nuanced.This discussion is though outside of the down and clear racists like Derek Blacks father and David Duke.The media is not the issue.It is simply not something that is easy to address and impossible to address on the social nets and from the comments on this post, difficult to address here.We DON”T disagree.We don’t completely agree. That is where the complexities of belief, upbringing and practicality create friends from people from different walks of life. That is the good stuff of life in my opinion.
I am deeply saddened by how people take a side and then take the most extreme view and then vilify the other side in any manner possible.I cannot imagine how my office would run like this.We have development that wants as view features as possible, ops that wants as low of a footprint as possible, sales which always wants a new feature and low price, marketing that likes shiny bobbles, support which just wants something in to solve a customers desires, and finance which wants as little cost and as high of price as possible.Damn if we all operated like politics in the U.S. we would be totally screwed. Could you imagine the rhetoric?We sit down and come to the solutions.
Phil, see comment above to William. I think there is hope glimmering on the horizon.
As cognitively dissonant as this sounds, I think Trump will force people to talk about these things.This is what I think is genius in his approach to DACA – he has told Congress to do their job and put them in the public spotlight. MSM gets to baste and roast them if they cannot get it done.He will now do this on every longstanding, unsolved issue. The winners will get his public praise and midterm election support – the losers will, as Sara H-S said to the press, get out of the way and let someone who can fix these problems have their job.I always wondered why he wandered away from ‘Do the Job’ while on the campaign – although its clear now, given the razor thing margin they had to carry the Electoral College. I am very heartened by ‘do the job’ re-apprearing as a key theme in his messaging.Its not an accident that Trump & Belichick are good friends – https://www.sbnation.com/20…
We are in the messy stage that happens when deep change is in process.I hate status quo more than I hate discomfort.(“Status quo” as a general concept. Not every instance of status quo is necessarily a bad thing.)
it’s messy because the best path isn’t clear yet. Once it is, I have faith in American Resiliency to figure it out
Me too, Shana.
The US is big on creating social and political division. From Plymouth Rock to the present, giving those small pox infected blankets to the American Indians, to slavery to work the tobacco and cotton farms, to Swedes to break the unions and do the hard work on the rail roads, to the imported Chinese to help get the rewards for laying more miles of track in the competition to build the Transcontinental Railroad, to the Japanese imported to pick pineapples, it’s always been obvious that big, bitter, potentially violent divisions would be created. We fought a war over that and killed, what, 600,000+ soldiers plus many civilians, and that was only the most costly of many such wars. And we have a mostly peaceful civil war going on now, for the same reason, import slave labor.It appears that Japan wants a homogeneous society and, thus, severely restricts immigration. Currently Poland and Hungary are pushing back against the immigration that some people high in the EU very much want; there will be an end to that, and from now to that end it will be ugly. Uh, the Democrat race card and diversity card aside, humans are tribal animals. That’s a fact, Jack. Recognizing that fact is not evil racism; ignoring it is destructive stupidity. That melting pot needs a slow cooker of a few hundred years. I see no hope the contents will ever really melt. There are some possibilities for peace, but there are also opportunities to follow the money in ways that create bitter and often violent battles.
I have the same feeling. It seems to me like the end of the, so called, “American Exceptionalism”.Immigration is a natural and complex problem. Visualizing it just as people crossing the border as if there is not a specific demand for jobs on the other side and a national willing to pay for that job, is very naive.In the case of Mexico, people have been crossing the Rio Grande for centuries. I was just reading that when Texas was Mexican territory they got “illegal immigration” from the north. I don’t know if that was true, but made me laugh.I would like to see 21st century’s solution proposals for the problem, instead of bs such as walls.In the particular case of DACA, I don’t think it will go much farther than giving these people a hard time dealing with the uncertainty, which is one of the top competences of Mr. Trump.Congress should do the right thing.
.OK, so, Lawrence. Let’s reason together.Texas was part of Mexico. Texicans went to Mexico of which they were part.Where did the “illegal” creep in?This is a trick question. There are parts of Texas to this day which are still part of Mexico.Today, if a Texan crosses the Mexican border and is apprehended, they get 5 years in jail. So, the Mexicans take this stuff very seriously.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Who better than you, as a Texan, to really understand this problem.Do you really think that it is just a problem of incentives or deincentives and enforcing, such as jail or walls?What about families spread on both sides?What about businesses that need workers that they won’t find in the US?@LE cleans his own WC, so do I in my private den-office. Do you regularly?Work shouldn’t be illegal.
.’No, I have a maid. But I know how to do it.I do make my bed every morning because I find that a well made bed propels me into a productive day. I have a handmade formal comforter, a working comforter, a foot blanket, six shams (which one must chop in the middle to dent perfectly), a dust ruffle, sheets, and blankets. The pillows must be hidden behind the shams.My wife makes fun of my bed making skills and constantly asks if I learned how to make a bed in the Army. I tell her I was not in the bedmaking Army.I was in the Army that jumped out of airplanes and slept on the ground (sleeping bags, no sheets or shams) for which I received an additional $60/month in addition to hazardous duty pay (explosives).What we need is a border wall to stop drug trafficking, human trafficking, and illegal immigration coupled with a guest worker program providing seasonal employment as well as industry specific employment opportunities.We need to have a BIG door in the wall, clean entry criteria, and GPS tracking.The US needs to run a clean shop. If there are jobs Americans won’t do, then we should have a guest worker program to do them. We do not need to tamp down wages through phony H1-B programs.I am confident we will get there eventually.I suspect we will have a general amnesty in the next year. I am in favor of a general amnesty. There is way too much toothpaste to get back into that tube.I would give everyone a clear path to citizenship and anybody who is not on it within 12 months never gets to vote. Ever.We need a robust legal immigration program which is merit based and not lottery based. If you go to school in the US and get a degree in a useful subject, you should be able to enroll to work your way into citizenship. If you serve in our military — citizen.We are quite an accommodating and welcoming country if people would just do it legally.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
I know you know how to do it, that’s why I added the “regularly”. If I recall correctly, you use to do that in a suit. :)We have a lady too, three days a week. She is part of the family at this point. The love and help she provided to my mother in law during her last months was invaluable. We are in eternal gratitude.I do make the bed on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I like the sheets to be very tight, no visible wrinkles. If I have the time I put the sheets into the dryer for a few minutes, they come out as new. The finishing touch is to fold the pajamas and leave them over the bed. I don’t understand foot blankets.I like your immigration plans, an amnesty at the correct timing could be a very powerful signal, and the clear path. I like the guest worker concept too, especially if it would have higher status and assurances than the green cards.GPS tracking sounds a bit creepy though. I am working on a GPS tracking based project and people are very sensitive about feeling tracked. I also think that the randomness that the lottery introduces to the selection system is a good thing.
.THE TRADE will ultimately be the WALL for the AMNESTY.I am taking bets.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
It is good to take bets when you are on a streak.
Do not misinterpret me here, but this is the issue we need to discuss.Yes, we are totally screwed in the current situation if we do not have illegal immigrants doing the work which people do not want to do. The really tough, the really hard jobs.I put out a 5 gallon igloo water cooler of ice each day when I have people working on my hard. Plastering the pool, laying the brick, digging the holes for trees. On Friday everybody gets a $20 and the Foreman gets a $50. That is a bonus on top of what I pay the contractor who I don’t ask and he doesn’t tell.Ok.But here is the thing: There are a lot of people on the “dole” near me as well.Now the hard discussion is that frankly I think they wouldn’t take that job no matter what it paid.They think that Immigrant is taking “their” job and somehow fantasize if they weren’t here they would have a job.
As a brother to brothers who have done time in our nation’s great jails. As a friend to others who have done the same. I can tell you that they aren’t all unwilling to do the work, unfortunately employers are unwilling to hire them for the jobs where they are qualified. Why? Because they can pay illegal immigrants less money for more work.I’m hearing a lot of reports of more jobs hitting the market for those of less than stellar backgrounds at higher wages than before due to the dearth of illegal immigrants being available. These are jobs where they wouldn’t get calls before due to their background, now they’re being actively recruited at higher rates than before.It’s a great narrative that Americans would be unwilling to do the work, but honestly I think it’s more that Americans are unwilling to do the work for what the employers want to pay. Which is below market and below what the law allows.Illegal immigration just further enables slavery and indentured servitude in America. Same as the H1B program. Whenever you have a segment of the labor market that responds to the market differently than the rest, you create this situation. H1B workers have a comically short amount of time to leave the country if they lose their sponsor. Illegal immigrants have to hide their presence and are at the mercy of their employer to make any money that’s not strictly illegal.We have to stop the black market for labor, it’s hurting our country.
Do not misunderstand. This is not a racial issue. I think ” white” peopleAre the most angry about it. And yes. Holding somebody down forever is wrong
I agree. I don’t think it’s a racial issue, it’s a illegal labor issue. I don’t agree with Trump on pretty much anything…except this issue – exploitation of immigrant labor in America. It’s harmful to the people themselves as well as the American economy.
I have said here before I think the minimum wage should be much higher. That is part of the role of government.Now part of the challenge is that when I talk to many people in the trades, they say people don’t want to do the hard work even if they are paying $20/hr.That came up on our office expansion. Each had a story about somebody that they hired and would not do the job. Pull the wire, “go-fer” stuff, do the dirty work. One talked about how he fired his nephew.Now I think part of this is the fact that if you are an illegal you have no safety net and you better work or you don’t eat.I would rather have the real discussion instead of rhetoric.
A massive effort with the deliberate attempt of kicking US citizens out of STEM field jobs was long carried out by the NSF for the US DoD to relieve what the DoD regarded as a shortage of workers in STEM fields. There are huge piles of details by. Norm Matloff, IIRC, a prof at one of the UC universities.IIRC, according to Matloff, the NSF actually had economists estimating demand curves to say how many immigrants were needed to get the salaries down to what the DoD wanted.So, how did the NSF do this? Sure, the NSF wrote into NSF grants that so many students also had to be supported, and, hint, hint, can get such students from countries A, B, and C. E.g., when I was in grad school, a prof confessed that they were awash in scholarships but short on qualified applicants, were awash in applications from outside the US but they were nearly all unqualified.Why was the US DoD so eager to reduce salaries? Because some STEM field workers were beginning to make money enough to buy a house and support a family, that’s all. In simple terms, that DoD effort ruined much of my career, kept me from ever buying a house or having children, and was a major reason my wife died. No joke.But my grad studies, original research, and business “vision” (@JLM) are all well beyond what the DoD was importing; so at this point I’m immune. But I’ll never have kids, and nothing will bring back my wife.That DoD-NSF work was really nasty stuff.With that stuff, soon on the first day when US citizen students walked into a college STEM field classroom, they found a lot of students, recently imported, who were on scholarship (had no hope of paying), and were next to impossible to understand in English. A lot of those US citizens dropped STEM field classes and went for the college of business and an MBA where the NSF and DoD were not trying to flood the country.
> The really tough, the really hard jobs.WOW, I wondered what you had in mind! Must be mud wrestling with Godzilla?Then came the big let down:Plastering the pool, laying the brick, digging the holes for trees.WOW. I commonly did harder work than that as a teenager! E.g., hedge trimming, with hedge 40′ long, 10′ high (before trimming), and 6′ wide (before trimming), often from a step ladder, near noon, in the summer, in Memphis, with 100+ F and 90+ % humidity. I made good use of a chalk line, and the customer got a nice rectangular parallelepiped.A few years ago we had 22″ of snow, and I shoveled all of it, street down to the bottom and a left turn to the garage.At one time, Dad was a certified high pressure steam boiler welder. To pass the certification, had to weld a vertical to a horizontal to make a T, and then, after some work with a band saw, all the joints had to bend without breaking. Oh, I forgot, the welding had to be overhead.When Dad was in his 40s, continuing his desk job, he led putting a nice master bedroom on the back of the house. So, tear off the brick siding, …. He did the plumbing, electrical, and finish carpentry. Then for a charcoal grill, he dug a hole, mixed and poured concrete and, thus, got a slab, put down fire bricks, with my help cleaned some of the bricks from the house, and did the brick laying to build the grill, about 5′ by 9′.Two weeks ago, the grass got too high. So, I did the mowing, pushing my mower — 15 hours, getting totally soaked with sweat.Later he got a boat, in really bad shape from having been left under water for months, fabricated in oak a new transom, with my help replaced a lot of the rivets, and painted it. Nice boat.Later he got a house trailer, in bad shape, and renovated it top to bottom — tires, brakes, the shower stall, the kitchen, with my help the stove, the roof, etc. — as a weekend cabin on a lake.Mom just HAD to have a big redo, do-over of the living room and at a high end boutique interior decorating shop got cans of custom blended paint in some exquisite color. Then, with some help from me, Dad did the full catastrophe — thorough surface preparation, primer coat, exquisite final coat, using Chinese hog bristle brushes, no brush strokes, runs, drips, errors visible.Mom liked some high end dining room chairs; they were nice. Something about Henkel Harris or some such. Being a good and careful shopper, Mom found just the antique table she wanted, just the right size and shape. But, then the table was in poor shape and didn’t match the chairs! So, Dad called Henkel Harris and asked to buy a jar of the right stain. Henkel Harris laughed at him. No problem: He got out the tubes of ground color and mixed his own stain. After a few trials on scrap lumber and adjustment, he had the color spot on and did a beautiful job on the table. Similarly for my father in law, putting up farm buildings to raise 40,000 chickens at a time, doing nearly all the work building his house, etc.American’s can’t do hard work? Total BS.During WWII, the US built ships, a LOT of ships. They went through trainloads of welding rod. Hot, heavy, hazardous. Liberty ships, destroyers, submarines, about 24 air craft carriers, the Iowa class battleships, etc. The US needed illegal immigrants for that work? I don’t think so!Since then the US has built airplanes, rockets, the M1 tank, the Interstate highway system, the WTC, nuclear power plants, and much more. Bet there was a lot of hot, heavy, hazardous work in there somewhere! The US needed illegal immigrants for that work? I don’t think so!Ike sent home a lot of temporary and/or illegal immigrants. We’ve been enforcing our immigration laws for decades. So, what’s different now? Sure, the usual, money, directly from cheap labor and indirectly from political power. Net, a lot of people, funding both political parties, very much want a new version of slavery. They get cheap labor, put US citizens out of work, and US citizens have to pick up the extra costs of K-12 education, medical care, other social services, police protection, special medical measures such as protecting US citizens from TB, the imported illegal drugs, etc. Bummer. We got rid of slavery once, and we don’t want it again; Trump supporters overwhelmingly don’t want it again, no matter how wrapped up it is in excuses about morality and sympathy.
Does anyone in a Mexican jail last 5 years?
.They almost killed former Marine Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi who was imprisoned for 214 days in a Mexican prison for driving across the border and possessing a vintage plinking rifle.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
More like the Great Republic of Texas that was had interesting issues with the Spanish, which meant historically fluid borders around the Rio Grande
.Wm, you know the answer, right?Merge Molson land, TexMex land, breakfast taco land.Merge Canada, USA, and Mexico.I am working on it on my end plus the reinstatement of dueling.What are you doing to make it happen? I’m counting on you. Don’t disappoint history.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
that would be a big breakthrough 🙂
In the US, politics is a contact sport, and the main reason is that we keep pushing and shoving and one of the main reasons for that is that much of our culture has some natural divisions and a lot of those were deliberate.Uh, you didn’t really expect that the NYC 400 with their private train cars taking them to Newport, RI for the summer parties wanted their debutante daughters to marry any of the recent immigrants, did you, e.g., some of the recent immigrants who did the labor on the railroads and in the steel mills and coal mines that made the money that kept them in the lifestyle to which they were accustomed?Did I mention deliberate divisions?Ah, the US “melting pot” needs a slow cooker, maybe another 500 years.
As an insider and legal immigrant I can tell you, you’re wrong, USA is the only nation where we allow a greater number of legal immigrants and are very gentle and kinder nation for all…
Hmm. How about Canada re: accepting immigrants. I think it does better.
There has to be sense to this. Not just rhetoric.This is why we get nothing. Each side makes an extreme view, and we get nothing.Can we let in every immigrant? No, we just cannot.Can we survive without immigrants doing the really hard work in the kitchens, fields, and construction trades? No, we just cannot.Do we want to keep the best and the brightest we educate in our Universities? Absolutely.Can we at least have some discussion on this?No it seems we cannot.
I think America will, in the next 6 months.The people that are the villains are the parents though, let’s not lose sight of that.
It saeems the smart thing to do is to allow the dreamers to buy amnesty. With a sufficiently heavy tax, it could work. perhaps Dreamers have to pay a 5% extra tax on income until they pay back the cost of benefits they were given as children. Once they pay off their debt, they can apply for a green card.It allows people to stay, but provides a face saving way out for those want them gone.
Interesting idea. There has to be a penalty for their parents’ breaking the rules. This is a pretty good one.
wouldn’t there be a huge incentive for illegal immigrants to have children to use them as a ‘shield’ to avoid deportation?
.If an illegal alien has a child in the US, that child is an American citizen. The child is called an “anchor baby” because that child almost certainly ensures that the parents will not be deported.That illegal alien falls under a new faux order — DAPA (Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents) — which provides protection against being deported.DACA was an unconstitutional construct of the President via Executive Order while DAPA was a policy enacted by the head of DHS and backdated to 2010. They are intertwined and joined at the hip.During the Obama admin the only sure way to be deported was to self-deport.Most Americans don’t bother to be informed on these matters preferring to suggest it’s all racist.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
The open borders people, who want to import slave labor, get with their buddies in the Democrat party, and the Democrats deal from the top of their deck, the race card.
slavery is illegal according to the constitution – Amendment 13Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. (unless you are in jail)So how is open boarders a form of importing slave labor – menial labor, unfair pay, those I can see, but slave labor – how does that work?
Shana:So, athttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…JLM wrote in part Time out, Cave.Ann Coulter is your exemplar for white identity politics? Huh? She is a perfectly predictable, white, woman lawyer/author with as conventional a view of conservatism as one could have. Inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…I responded to JLM’s post with in part Darned good and clear.The NYT-Hillary Democrat MSM propaganda machine and nearly all of Manhattan, SF, and DC were totally convinced that the only possible winner was Hillary. When they were wrong, they started a civil war, mostly not violent yet. and inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…you responded with in part not clear. I dare you to run anne coulter vs father coughlin through a neural network and see if it can classify the political differences of what they say d about, say immigration, – if what they say was blinded to the specific group each thinks shouldn’t belong. I suspect it would be super difficult, because functionally it is the same politics rebranded for a newer age. Uh, Shana, that use of discriminate analysis, separation, statistical hypothesis testing, etc. would be misapplied and meaningless.First, it should be possible to discriminate between the writings of Anne Coulter and Father Coughlin just buy some simple non-parametric “two sample” statistical hypothesis tests, e.g., as in, say,Sidney Siegel, Nonparametric Statistics for the Behavioral Sciences, McGraw-Hill.Here the null hypothesis would be that the two collections of writing samples were drawn as simple random sampling from the same, one, collection. So, IMHO we would soundly reject that null hypothesis.Uh, I gave an outline of statistical hypothesis testing inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/the-…For such a test, we could go for just the vocabularies, and we would reject the null hypothesis likely mostly just because of the changes in common English usage over the years.I doubt that the common, current applications of neural networks would do nearly as well at such discrimination.Second, even if we can strongly reject that null hypothesis, that does not mean that the meanings of the writings were different, and you are talking about the meanings.My startup has made some significant, powerful, valuable progress on software for meaning of content, and … should be able to answer your question about discriminating meaning. But that neural networks have any progress on such work with actual meaning is an outrageous thigh slapper and threat of fractures of the femurs of all who hear such nonsense.Uh, Shana, again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time, this time just for you, the evidence is strong that I’m a talented, well-trained, accomplished applied mathematician, and, therefore, I have to remind you that artificial intelligence via neural networks is at least 99 44/100% irresponsible and/or incompetent hype and 99 44/100% of the rest is water. So, right, I’m saying it isn’t all bad, and that’s my guess of how they would read this remark in Silicon Valley.As in some work of D. Bertsekas at MIT, a world class applied mathematician, I do see some good applications of neural networks, but they are not, Not, NOT, NOT claimed to be AI — AI, gag, choke, upchuck.For Father Coughlin, I have no direct or significant knowledge. I do remember hearing as a child that Father Coughlin had been some rabble rousing speaker about something or other.For Ann Coulter, I can agree with JLM as above and I repeat in part here She is a perfectly predictable, white, woman lawyer/author with as conventional a view of conservatism as one could have. except I regard the label “conservatism” as poorly defined and otherwise not very good thinking, but that’s not surprising because there is a lot of really bad thinking out there; not liking some of conservatism does NOT mean liking anything of liberalism; and liking some of conservatism does NOT mean rejecting all of liberalism. Uh, on political issues, there are many more, there should be millions more, sets of opinions than just two!For more on Coulter, culture, and immigration:Athttp://www.breitbart.com/im…on or near Wednesday, July 5th, 2017, is Ann Coulter: Immigrant of the Week: Henry Bello (Obotetukudo) Athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…on or near Wednesday, May 17th, 2017 is Ann Coulter: Every Time I Try to Be Mad at Trump, the Media Pull Me Back Athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…on or near Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017 is Ann Coulter: We Have Now Hit Full-On Crazy Athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…on or near Wednesday, March 15th, 2017 is Ann Coulter: Let’s Make Russia Our Sister Country! Athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…on or near Wednesday, March 8th, 2017 is Ann Coulter: ‘Immigrant Privilege’ Drives Child Rape Epidemic IMHO, Coulter is a good candidate for the brightest political opinion writer in the country and nearly consistently makes her points much, MUCH better than nearly anyone else in such work.On culture and immigration, IMHO Coulter makes really good sense.Inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…you wrote in part: Interestingly, Ivana reported that one of the few books Trump really liked reading was a book of all of Hitler’s speeches, because he admired Hitler’s speaking style (much of it was engineered by Goebbels). Good for Trump: I believe that every responsible US citizen should read a lot about all historical dirt bags including Hitler and including his speeches and writings.Have you? Maybe so.I tried to do such:Broadly I wanted to know what the heck happened and why and how. E.g., how did Germany do so well in math, physical science, medicine, manufacturing, and classical music yet so badly in morality and politics? Then I wanted to know if such a thing could happen here in the US.So, I read, e.g.,William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, Thirtieth Anniversary Edition, ISBN 0-671-72868-7, Simon and Schuster, New York.One of the little points I learned, IIRC, is that early on Hitler practiced his speaking to small, even street corner, audiences until he got good at getting the effects he wanted.It appears from various sources that early on Hitler brought together a coalition of industrialists, parts of the Army (e.g., they had a political fund that provided some of Hitler’s financial support early on), unhappy (e.g., out of work) soldiers from WWI, anti-Communists, anti-labor unions, citizens upset with the loss of WWI, the treaty of Versailles, the 1920s inflation, and the 1930s Great Depression. Uh, politicians tend to try to build coalitions.A few months ago I tried for the first time to read Mein Kampf. The best copy I found on the Internet looked like the result of some strange optical processing and, thus, was tough to read. I read only a little from the beginning, e.g., which happened to be about his descriptions of the nature of the life of poor people or people suddenly poor. I thought that his description was insightful and not “hate filled”. Maybe the really hateful stuff was later in the book.Hateful or not, again, for a good, well informed US citizen, it’s important to read Hitler, e.g., along with The Communist Manifesto, and other historical documents.E.g., I did see some of how Hitler got his power. I’m no A student of history; never have been; never will be!My take-away for how Hitler got power was that he deliberately proceeded in steps, i.e., he iterated: He got a little power and then ruthlessly used what he had to get more. He kept this up until by the late 1930s he was a total dictator, and anyone who tried to challenge him could get whacked by the SA (until it was disbanded apparently as, for Hitler, a pain that was no longer useful), SS, Gestapo, ordinary police, etc.First, he was good at giving speeches.Second, using financial support from the German Army, he brought together his coalition.Third, from an election and/or some support of Chancellor Hindenburg, he got some power.Fourth, using that power, soon he called for another election and this time won and got a lot of power. E.g., somewhere in there he got Hermann Göring head of the Prussian Gestapo or some such. E.g., when holding a vote in the Reichstag he had SA or some such at the doors inviting in only people that would vote as Hitler wanted.Fifth, he used violence against opponents, got some law letting him run Germany as a command economy for four years, then did get the economy going again, then got another four years, and by then was an absolute dictator.For the rest of the details, I read them, didn’t pay much attention, and don’t have them straight now.So, could it happen here? IMHO, yes but not easily, and we are very far from that now although there are forces that if they had more power might take us there.I believe we have to recall that Hitler had a lot of disasters to stand on — WWI, Versailles, the inflation, the Communists, the unions, the Great Depression, the humiliation of German pride and nationalism, etc. That’s a lot; here in the US we are still a long way from such a list.For your (much of it was engineered by Goebbels). IIRC that would have had to have been later after Hitler was already good at getting the audience reactions he wanted.For politicians to be able to get their audiences up on their hind legs is common and important for their ability to win elections, etc.E.g., there was the Ted Kennedy “And the dream shall never die”as athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wi…with in part “The Dream Shall Never Die” was a speech delivered by U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy before the Democratic National Convention on August 12, 1980. In the address, Kennedy defended post-World War II liberalism, advocated for a national health care insurance model, criticized former actor and Republican presidential nominee Ronald Reagan, and implicitly rebuked incumbent President Jimmy Carter (to whom he had conceded the Democratic nomination only the night before) for his more moderate political stances. It has been remembered by some as Kennedy’s best speech, and one of the most influential orations of the era. on August 12, 1980, before the Democrat National Convention.Shana, we know these things.Sure, we also know that, along with Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Tojo, and many others (it’s often been a very bloody last 5000 years or so) Hitler was one of the worst in all of history.E.g., from the reading I did, it seems that as part of Operation Barbarossa, Hitler wanted to take over the lands from essentially the triangle from Germany to Stalingrad to Leningrad, kill everyone there then — Slavics, Jews, Gypsies, etc. — take the oil near Baku, and use the lands as estates for Germans as part of his Lebensraum. We know that.Hitler came close, e.g., IIRC, killed about 20 million Soviets and, as commonly reported, 6 million Jews.It is said that US politics is a contact sport and if only from the last 30 months that appears to be the case in the US. Well, it can appear that international politics can be a genocidal sport except for the US.Really, commonly there are no rules of decency. E.g., notice a little after 34:35 in the Schwarzkopf “Mother of All Briefings” athttps://www.youtube.com/wat…Athttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…is in part your I’d suggest being careful with your metaphors, especially in the case where it known that one of the parties involved actually did like Goebbels from a “how to speak” point of view. “Metaphors”? You lost me. I see no metaphors.For your”actually did like Goebbels from a ‘how to speak’ point of view.”,I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe that’s some circumlocution like in Shakespeare that I also never could make any sense out of at all; to me Shakespeare might as well have been written in Russian where I don’t even know the alphabet.Literally. I’m not saying that I can’t get the “deep” parts; I can’t even get to anything deep because I can’t even get the superficial parts; for far too much of it, quite literally I just can’t make any sense out of it, just can’t read it, can’t parse it, can’t find the subjects or verbs, don’t know the vocabulary, etc.Shana, I’ll compare Math SAT scores with anyone but not Verbal SAT scores! You’d have to spot me a lot of points for me to compare Verbal SAT scores with you.I know next to nothing about Goebbels except that he was supposedly a very effective Minister of Propaganda for Hitler, thus, a world class a-hole, but knew some things about making lying propaganda work.That the NYT and WaPo along with ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Politico, and more have borrowed so heavily exactly from the, IIRC, Goebbels “If you tell a lie often enough people will believe it and eventually you will believe it.” is astounding, ironic, and a total upchuck.I have a list of such lies by the NYT; the list is not long because I just so gave up on the NYT that mostly I refuse to read it (I will only read material from people I know that the NYT promises to print exactly verbatim, and I mostly don’t trust their version of verbatim) and didn’t take the time to document the lies. Yesterday I saw a big lie from WaPo — something about US citizens can’t do some work Dreamers can — but, similarly, didn’t document it. For ABC, …, I long since heard way more than enough, refuse to pay any attention to any of them, with rare exceptions, but have seen lots of video clip quotes on Hannity, all well within just that Goebbels explained.Goebbels aside, this lying stuff is dirty business.The US freedom of the press gives sewage sources like the NYT wide latitude, but my reaction is just to ignore them. Besides apparently they have been and are in such bad financial shape that they are well on their way out of business, e.g., apparently now begging for charity.At yourhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…is in part if before 1917 and not chinese (which Laurie as far as I know doesn;t have any chinese ancestors), the answer to that question is immigration policy when her ancestors came didn’t really define legal or illegal outside of not being sick with something like Dysentery or TB. From all I know, there you are correct. But that was 100 years ago. I don’t know that that immigration policy was appropriate then. For now, IMHO that immigration policy is not appropriate for the US, and I know that now it is flatly illegal. Hell, to point, I think Steve Bannon’s first Bannon ancestor to the US, … IIRC, I have never mentioned Bannon. I know next to nothing about him. In the last few days I’ve read some quotes from him apparently from some CBS interview. IMHO he is long on imagination with a big flow out of all orifices and short on discipline. Maybe some of what he has said is insightful, but with so little discipline it’s tough to take anything he says very seriously. Maybe take what he says as conjectures.For your And yet we’re not sitting around complaining Steven Bannon is an illegal immigrant because his first american ancestor has no records of getting here. as I understand it the Bannon we are talking about was born in the US. Thus he is a US citizen. Done.For your Why should Steve Bannon be more privileged than these kids because of the era his ancestors chose to immigrate? By “kids” maybe you mean the DACA people. For being US citizens, their main problem is that they were not born in the US. If their parents were US citizens, then maybe they, too, would be US citizens even if born outside the US.Shana, I have to believe that you know these things.For your I don’t know your real name and don’t know anything about your genealogy) For the first, you are welcome to ask Fred, but otherwise I want to remain anonymous on Disqus.For the second, again, genealogy has next to nothing to do with the immigration laws.But it may be that part of my genealogy is well documented in my family bible. Last I heard, my brother had it. My last name is English. Supposedly there was an English whaling sailing captain who had five sons, and they left NYC and went west. At least one settled a little south of Buffalo. Eventually a male descendant ran a general store in a small town, and my father was his son.My mother’s maiden name is German. She grew up in Columbus, OH, and had four sisters and a brother. The brother died at maybe 20; one of the sisters died in middle age, and I knew the other two sisters.I am a US citizen because I was born in the US. Yes, I have a certified birth certificate.For yourhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…you claimed, correctly, that slavery is illegal according to the constitution – Amendment 13 So is violating US immigration laws. So, we have been quite willing to violate some such laws.Currently a lot of people want us to ignore our immigration laws on moral grounds.Well we should object to slavery on moral grounds. So how is open boarders a form of importing slave labor – menial labor, unfair pay, those I can see, but slave labor – how does that work? You said that slavery is illegal but didn’t give a definition of slavery.I’m sure you can see the moral objections to the lives of most of the illegal immigrants and that they are under so much economic and legal pressure that they really have no real freedom and remain slaves.E.g., I grew up in Memphis, and believe me a lot of the Blacks there had plenty of reason to be regarded as slaves. So do most of the illegal immigrants now.Shana, you appear to be highly concerned about some things having to do with immigration, genealogy, Hitler, Coulter, Trump, etc. IMHO, you are in the US and, thus, mostly should relax.If you want to worry and take action, then help stop the anti-Trump people Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, John McCain, his buddy Jeff Flake, stop the effect of the Goebbels-style propaganda of the NYT and MSM against Trump, clean up the dirt bags in Iraq, Akrapistan, ISIS, Iran, and North Korea, stop radical Islamic terrorism (uh, yesterday was September 11th), get a lot of our 94 million people out of the labor force back to work, and make Trump-led progress on health care, taxes, infrastructure, national security, economic growth, foreign trade deals, etc. For more be highly concerned about the fact that so often the situation in the US is so bad that women are having so few children that we are going extinct, literally.
Thank you for talking down to me about hypothesis testing, which is something I knew about already and have taught marketers about in the past – both mathematical and philosophical issues about the nature of falsifiability.As for my pointAnn Coulter or Father Coughlin (time period specific references are removed, and all are fairly representative quotes from the full spectrum of time in which they spoke/wrote/broadcasted): Example 1″While we sympathize with the (member of a nation-state) or the (member of a nation-state) , with the (religion of a person) in (country) or the (religion of a person) in (country), the major portion of our sympathy is extended to our dispossessed farmer, our disconsolate laborers who are being crushed at this moment while the spirit of internationalism runs rampant in the corridors of the Capitol, hoping to participate in setting the world aright while chaos clamors at our doors.” Example 2Inasmuch as the vast majority of post-(time period)d immigrants — legal immigrants — are poor, (not like me in a specific way) and come from countries with far worse (crime rates and/or political systems) than our own, that’s at least counterintuitive. The main evidence cited in support of the claim that immigrants commit less crime than Americans is a moronic point about cities with a lot of immigrants seeming to have (low crime rates and /or are consistently better run).Example 3Modern capitalism is destroying itself at both ends. It speaks to the youth of the nation with this bright sentence: “You are inexperienced. We do not want you.” To the matured laborers in industry who are forty-five years of age, it says: “You must retire simply because the compensation insurance rate is too high for us and the insurance companies of this nation do not care to risk you.” Example 4″This conclusion my friends is crystal clear. Namely that the propaganda machine is already at work . The press, the cinema, well known citizens, are either wittingly or unwittingly conditioning America for war. The invasion is upon you! Racial and religious psychology is being employed to line up leaders. Catch words are being used as bait to deceive the masses. Once more therefore I restate, what are we Americans planning to do about this foreign invasion? An invasion not of soldiers armed with machine guns – but of professional propagandists to stand behind the remarks at the dinner table or assault you from the silver screen or the columns of a newspaper as they explode the bombs of poison gas over the countryside of our country… A sane parent would not welcome a leper in his home to live with his children. And a sane government that must not permit the lepers of propaganda to seek hospitality within our shores and thereby spread the disease of hate, of war, of murder, and of injustice amongst our innocent people!” Example 5…if certain timid (group name) would cease searching for the burglar under the bed and if certain other citizens of the (group name) were courageous enough to condemn publicly the unsocial (group individual), together with the unsocial Christian, both of whom have exploited the poor (group individual) and the poor Christian throughout civilization.”“If a repetition of such insidious propaganda is persisted in by the lower strata (group name), to the detriment of the better class (group name) who out-numbers the former, rest assured that (organization name) and the many thousands of (group name) who are enrolled therein will not sit idly by.”Example 6It is preposterous to assume every (person of some sort) is a potential crazed homicidal maniac. We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. Example 7If you want a (name of an ideology) country, you need a (name of an ideology) populace. Immigration is changing the country, and there will be no changing it back. If you don’t understand that, you are the enemy of any (name of an ideology) undertaking.While I know which is which, do you? Which is the guy who forced the hand of the US to not allow Jewish people to emigrate in the wake of the rise of the Nazi party – and which is Ann Coulter?
Thank you for talking down to me about hypothesis testing, which is something I knew about already and have taught marketers about in the past – both mathematical and philosophical issues about the nature of falsifiability. I didn’t do that and am innocent of the charge: You challenged me on something about discrimination via neural networks, and I dumped on that idea and proposed a statistical hypothesis test instead.To propose an hypothesis test, I should be more specific so added that the test would be non-parametric on vocabulary and gave a reference to Siegel’s book which is awash in non-parametric tests.I also referenced my long tutorial post in response to the Equifax data breach thread inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/the-…where I explained using statistical hypothesis tests, instead of thresholds and AI, for detecting zero day problems. The tutorial nature of that post was quite appropriate since, from all I’ve seen in that field of monitoring so far, at one time I was on the leading edge of that field, the role of statistical hypothesis testing is very neglected. In addition I needed to give a tutorial to explain my original, published work in detecting zero day problems via hypothesis tests that are both multi-dimensional and distribution-free.I wasn’t talking down at all: My post in this thread was no more than needed even for a specialist audience in statistics (to propose a test, should mention at least the null hypothesis and parametric or not), and my post in the data breach thread was, IMHO, as solidly needed by the server farm bridge and NOC people and their management chains. Also, even a specialist audience could use some help since some of what I mentioned there was from my original research.Your Example 1, IMHO that’s not the view of either Trump or Coulter. IIRC for both of them, the proposed approach to immigration is to bring in people who can support themselves economically, contribute to the US, love the US and our values and culture, and assimilate.E.g., for some of what now England has and IMHO the US does NOT want isUK Imam Tells Congregation to ‘Spill Blood’ and ‘Establish Law of Allah’ fromhttp://www.breitbart.com/lo…If read the article, then it appears that the article is from some court proceedings and has some credibility and that the headline is not much of an exaggeration.For the part”While we sympathize with the (member of a nation-state) or the (member of a nation-state) , with the (religion of a person) in (country) or the (religion of a person) in (country), For such sympathy and to help alleviate such suffering, the US does a LOT with foreign aid, funding of the UN and its World Health Organization (WHO), sending ships with relief supplies, e.g., as for a big tsunami in the Indian Ocean, etc.But our long standing immigration policies, procedures, and laws are not based on such “sympathy,” or, to repeat in different words, not much intended to, in my brother’s words, “to alleviate human suffering” in foreign lands. Again, for such sympathy and suffering, the US does a LOT, but immigration policy is not intended to be part of that.Still, the US does a lot of that response to suffering by admitting refugees. I don’t know the details of the refugee programs and am not sure they have a path to citizenship.For the partthe major portion of our sympathy is extended to our dispossessed farmer, our disconsolate laborers who are being crushed at this moment while the spirit of internationalism runs rampant in the corridors of the Capitol, hoping to participate in setting the world aright while chaos clamors at our doors.” For Trump, and I would guess also Coulter:(1) The first part of that is something they are concerned about. That is, it is commonly reported, and apparently @JLM has the references to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that the US has about 94 million US citizens ready, willing, able, and eager to work but out of the labor force.So, when have 94 million people out of the labor force, should be careful about what immigrants import, and that is fully obvious.(2) For the second part about “internationalism” and “setting the world aright”, another description is “absurd foreign adventures”.IMHO, (A) for WWI, it’s not entirely clear that the US had to do that; (B) the US, with our worst and dumbest, acted stupidly in Viet Nam; and (3) Gulf War II had to be from W smoking funny stuff.Trump has said many times that he was against Gulf War II. Here I fully agree with Trump. For what Coulter thought, I don’t know.For your Example 2, that seems not to fit what Trump and Coulter are talking about: Trump has been concerned about radical Islamic terrorism, such as in 9/11/2001 and the earlier attack on the WTC, Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, and, thus, has wanted a temporary ban on immigration from some countries with a lot of radical Islamic terrorism and where the records are so poor the US can’t do good vetting of the immigration candidates. And Trump has been concerned about rapists, drug dealers, etc. illegal immigrants from South and Central America and, thus, has wanted a border wall with good vetting of immigrants.For your Example 3, a big solution is just to get people back to work, that is, not have 94 million people out of the labor force.E.g., look at the work of Prof Norman Matloff at one of the UC universities: From Matloff and/or others, e.g., long at Intel the personnel policy was to hire Master’s EE students just out of college and then have them in management by age 35 or fired.My opinion is that people are lucky if they have tenure as a school teacher, have an RN or MD, or are in a successful, family owned business. Otherwise usually they are highly vulnerable to being unemployed and, then unemployable, by about age 45. For an individual, the only solution I know is for them to start, own, and run a successful business.For our country, that whole situation of so many out of the labor force is total nonsense. The main solution is to raise the demand for workers and keep the current supply, that is, not increase the supply with immigration. Simple. Obvious. Dirt simple.How to raise the demand for workers? Sure, have better trade deals where we import fewer products and export more products, protect our intellectual property, reduce job killing regulations, lower taxes, bring US earnings currently parked overseas back to the US, etc. For the supply of workers, draw from the 94 million we already have and not import more. For worker qualifications, have training programs funded by hiring companies, taxes, or the workers.In particular, nearly all US families have had to strain to pay for college for their children. Yes, at many US colleges, there are foreign students from poor countries; no way did those students pay their own way and, instead, US citizens struggling to pay for the college educations of their own children have been forced to pay taxes to pay for the college educations of foreign students, uh, to take US education overseas to compete with US business or to take jobs of US citizens in the US. Bummer.For your Example 4 with”This conclusion my friends is crystal clear. Namely that the propaganda machine is already at work. That’s absolutely true now.Trump is basically in a battle with the highly anti-Trump NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Politico, heavily Manhattan-led, mainstream media (MSM).That the media mostly pumps sewage goes way back, e.g., to Jefferson’sNothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day. as athttp://press-pubs.uchicago….More recently, we remember “yellow journalism”, e.g., “You supply the pictures; I’ll supply the war.”.Then more recently, in the 1930s there was an Andy Hardy movie where Andy ridicules newspapers as being nonsense; movie audiences then were quite prepared to side the Andy.More recently long time, relatively respected reporter Sharyl Attkisson explained that nearly everything in the news is put there and paid for by someone trying to plant opinions in the minds of the audience.IMHO, as I have explained in this forum, the opinion pieces on the MSM are essentially all Goebbels style, lying propaganda.Lying propaganda in a battle with Trump? In case the battle has not been fully obvious, e.g., from video clips from the MSM shown on Hannity, athttps://www.newsbusters.org…isRich Noyes, Mike Ciandella, Study: The Liberal Media’s Summer of Pummeling Trump September 12, 2017 7:51 AM EDT.with documentation that the coverage has been “91% negative.”The rest of your Example 4 appears to be as dated as high button shoes, no longer current, and no longer very relevant.For your Example 5, currently there is a lot of exploitation in the world, in the US, of illegal immigrants in the US, and of attacks against the US citizens in the US collection of workers. E.g., US citizens ready, willing, able, and eager to work are forced to pay taxes to support and educate immigrants to take the jobs of those US citizens. Bummer.For the rest of that example, I can’t fill in the blanks with anything 100 years ago because I don’t know that period well or anything current because I don’t think it fits well.For your Example 6 withIt is preposterous to assume every (person of some sort) is a potential crazed homicidal maniac. Right. But for radical Islamic terrorists associated with Al Qaeda or ISIS, it is fair to say that nearly all, certainly way too many, are “potential crazed homicidal” maniacs, rapists, etc.Look, Islam is not just a religion, and it is certainly not really peaceful. Instead each Muslim is often urged to convert everyone else to their version of Islam or kill them. E.g., see the quote I gave above about some Imam in the UK.So, in the US, we don’t want radical Muslims or Muslims from Islam cultures where apparently rape of women is accepted. As, Europe has discovered, can’t permit Muslims to attend a street party or be in a public swimming pool. Too many Muslims find rape nearly irresistible and come from Islamic countries where apparently rape is accepted.Trump asks for assimilation: Well, the UK and too many EU countries have discovered the meaning and dangers of “no go” zones. Bummer.Take all the high level human rights, diversity, globalism, fairness, etc. philosophical moralizing and stuff it into the sewer to block such people from coming to the US. It’s simple: Say “No”. Then say “No way”, “Hell no.”. Then say, “You do that, and we’ve voting your sorry butt out of office — capiche?”.So, IMHO, any Muslim entering the US needs Trump’s “extreme vetting”.For your Example 7, I’m not sure either Trump or Coulter agree with that. But, I can fill in the blanks with some cases where I would go along.To me, it’s just dirt simple: Islam has declared war on Western Civilization and, in particular, the US. So, we have to defend ourselves. The first way is to keep all who would make war on us the heck OUT of the US.For yourWhile I know which is which, do you? Which is the guy who forced the hand of the US to not allow Jewish people to emigrate in the wake of the rise of the Nazi party – and which is Ann Coulter? Frankly, bluntly, mostly above we’ve been talking about illegal immigrants from South and Central America who would bring illegal drugs, take jobs of US workers, and raise expenses for US education, medical care, safety net, and police protection and Muslims who would rape our women and girls and attack our country.For the Jews and their emigration from the Nazis and immigration to the US, I don’t know many details.So, maybe a point, a concern, maybe your point and concern, is that when Jews get into trouble in the world, they would like to be able to go to Israel or the US. But to make this possible in the US, there need some rules, and usually the rules are supposed to be quite general and not single out a specific religion, ethic group, or race. So, maybe it’s tough to draft general rules that will please Jews under threat and not also force the US to admit the people the US should not want from Central and South America and from Islamic countries.For your concern about the Nazis and who did what you mentioned, there is the Herman Wouk TV series The Winds of War where the script has FDR admitting that he would get into political trouble or some such if he admitted “more Jews”.Just why FDR was so concerned, including whether he should have been or not, I’m sure you know much more than I do.For the present, I have no idea what Coulter thinks about Jews or Jewish emigration or immigration.For Trump, IMHO it’s fair to say that he is a great friend of the Jews, in NYC, the US, and Israel and that this is accepted. And, it appears that Trump made some progress in Saudi Arabia: Supposedly recently an Arab prince visited Israel and met with Netanyahu.For more, it was Obama, the darling of the Democrats and, thus, necessarily also Manhattan and, thus, likely a lot of Jews, who made the Iran deal. It is Trump who is so seriously against the Iran deal, and it is Iran that keeps screaming “Death to America” and “Death to Israel”.Sure, maybe Ayatollah Kockamamie has crowds screaming “Death to Israel” as just a way to fire up his audiences, but I’m sure we can agree that there are plenty of Arab and Persian Muslims who would love to see every Jew in Israel dead. No joke.And the US has known this since 1949 or so and, thus, continually, with much more at some crucial times, done a LOT, basically enough, to keep Israel relatively safe.E.g., supposedly somehow there was a plant somewhere in Pennsylvania processing uranium fuel rods and separating out the plutonium that somehow mislaid enough plutonium for several bombs, about the same number Israel has. Ah, just rumors, really, just “tap room gossip”.In this present issue in the US about immigration to the US, really NONE of it is about immigration by Jews.Let’s see, now, for Trump’s “extreme vetting”, we want good technique on both piano and violin, e.g., playing the Ernest Bloch Baal Shem as in Stern’shttps://www.youtube.com/wat…or Heifetz’shttps://www.youtube.com/wat…(one of the most passionate Stern performances; of course, Heifetz has better technique, more discipline, and better intonation!) good knowledge of most or all of Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, German, French, Italian, English, Hebrew, and Arabic, and at least one of a US music school professorship, MD, STEM field Ph.D., or US VC A round for $30 million or more?Also for Baal Shem, I just happened to see Anna Morozovahttps://www.youtube.com/wat…Amazing!Wow! Some of the Bach unaccompanied cello suiteshttps://www.youtube.com/wat…and the Beethoven Spring sonata!https://www.youtube.com/wat…Shana, this is 2017 in the US. We have a fantastic POTUS bringing the country together, e.g., on Monday, in Houston, etc. In a word, again, relax.BTW, and might help, on paper the NYT can’t compete with Charmin and on the Internet is no good for wrapping dead fish heads.Shana, I’m not good at writing and have to get back to work.
Immigration as slavery?I claimed that the immigration of recent years is a new form of slavery.You questioned that, and inhttp://avc.com/2017/09/a-ni…I responded withI’m sure you can see the moral objections to the lives of most of the illegal immigrants and that they are under so much economic and legal pressure that they really have no real freedom and remain slaves.E.g., I grew up in Memphis, and believe me a lot of the Blacks there had plenty of reason to be regarded as slaves. So do most of the illegal immigrants now. Now athttp://www.breitbart.com/im…from US Marine General Kelly, former Secretary of DHS, now the White House Chief of Staff, spoken discreetly, is:One of the things, and I have my working class root background that keeps reminding me that some of these individuals —not necessarily in Alaska — but many, many of these individuals are victimized when they come up here, in terms of what they’re paid and all the rest of it, so we’re working with Labor, Department of Labor, to come up with an answer to this, but we really do need a long-term solution, so we’ll work with the Senate and with Congress, within the industry, this year, and again, I’ll have my staff when they return from Labor and we get some protocols in place, we’ll likely increase the numbers for this year, perhaps not by the entire number that I’m authorized, but we really do need, I’m really looking forward to working with you Senator, and the whole Congress, to get a longer-term solution to this. So, we have… many, many of these individuals are victimized when they come up here, in terms of what they’re paid and all the rest of it, … You’d want a member of your family, or you, treated that way?Right, and US citizens have to be treated that way or lose their jobs to the slave labor. Again, you’d want a member of your family, or you, treated that way?Shana, in case the situation is not totally obvious, illegal immigrants are, in a word, ILLEGAL. They are also poor. So these two, illegal and poor, mean that they have no access to, protection from, the US legal system; so, they have few or no rights and for bad treatment little or no recourse.They are vulnerable to exploitation; of COURSE they are because that was the main idea.And they can be exploited by blackmail, that is, live under the threat of being exposed as an illegal, jailed, deported, etc.E.g., suppose they have a daughter and the employer molests her. Now what?Shana, you are not that naive or gullible.Or, athttp://www.breitbart.com/vi…is Senator Schumer’s statement of September 6, 2017 with in part:The president’s decision to end DACA was heartless, and it was brainless. No, what is “heartless” and “brainless” is what Obama created, and now there is little or no non-heartless way to correct the situation.Basically, if we grant amnesty, then too many US workers will lose their jobs, and, from past massive importation of cheap products and cheap labor, we already have 94 million US citizens, most of whom are ready, willing, able, and eager to get back into the labor force, OUT of the labor force. That’s really both “heartless” and “brainless.”On the other hand, if we deport the illegals, then, again, the situation is “heartless;” US citizens are well protected, but the illegals get what the law says, deportation.So, net, a lot of families, US or illegal immigrant, will be suffering.That these families suffer one way or another was, really, the main point of Obama’s effort to use these families as pawns, to create his unconstitutional DACA, to cancel US laws, and his violation of the Constitution inArticle. II.,Section. 3.on the office of the President with:he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed So, Obama refused to faithfully execute our immigration laws, deliberately refused to execute our immigration laws, and, thus, violated the US Constitution.Obama did it. I have an opinion why he did that. The reason is much the same for why he tried tosabotage the US economy with his total wack-o nonsense about human caused “global warming;”put sexual wack-os in the US military;give up a lot of our sovereignty and shoot our economy in the gut with TPP and the Paris Accords;weaken our military with the Sequester;keep our economy down after the crash of 2008;shoot our health care system in the gut with Obamacare;unleash the quasi-religious wack-os in the EPA to shoot our economy in the gut;hurt our economy as much as possible with floods of absurd regulations;hurt US citizens by refusing to enforce immigration laws;proposing new policies with wack-o ideas about gender;hurt the US economy by permitting $800 billion a year or so trade deficits;hurting the US economy by being super slow to enforce deals on intellectual property;hurting US national security by signing the Iran deal and being weak in Iraq and Afghanistan and against ISIS and the Taliban;doing nothing about nukes and rockets in North Korea;hurting the US economy by shutting down much of the US coal industry;hurting the US economy by stopping the oil pipelines;hurting the US economy by restricting leases for oil drilling;hurting US law enforcement by encouraging BLM;hurting US international relations by insulting England;hurting US international relations and Jews by insulting Israel;hurting US prestige with his apology tour;and on and on.Basically Obama hates the US and did all he could to hurt the US. DACA is just one more example of how he deliberately hurt the US.You still think Obama was trying to help the US? Really?DACA was just one of the many ways Obama deliberately hurt the US, and Trump is trying to clean up the mess.
All around, children have been used by parents to break the rules.
These people did nothing wrong, broke no laws.This raises a very interesting point and I think it is perhaps the core to why they should be allowed to stay here.I want to also say that these issues, like many things, I could easily argue or debate either side of. In the case of this particular comment I will make a point which as to why they should be allowed to stay.The question really boils down to whether, if a parent commits a crime, should the children be held responsible for the parent’s crime? And taking it a step further what if the child benefits in some way from the parent’s crime? That appears to be what has happened here. The benefit to the children is pretty clear.In the case of other crimes it seems that it’s pretty clear that there would be some form of clawback. That is, we would not let the child benefit from the parent’s crime. If it was found that a person in business committed a crime and the children had no knowledge of the crime we would almost certainly take away any benefit from the child. Right?However here is the difference. The government has a clear program in place and lack of enforcement action against those crimes. Think Madoff. They don’t overlook those crimes in any way shape or form even though they may not have the resources to put everyone in jail (or take away assets). With these children though it seems clear to me that the government knowingly looked the other way and did nominal to no enforcement. So I think it’s reasonable when the government has a grand program to ignore a particular activity, and allow it to progress to where it is today, there appears to be a need for some type of amnesty program to allow those who are here to stay. Of course this is not the same as allowing their parents (who actually committed the crime to stay) or anything close to that even if that would be a hardship for either the parents or the children.
.Under the Obama admin, if a family with children was apprehended AT the border, they were immediately turned back and deported.That same family made it into the hinterlands, the child was subject to DACA, and the turn back action (deportation) was forestalled. It was even forestalled if no DACA app had been made as long as an app was in progress which could be initiated on the spot.Under DAPA — different program — the parent of a DACA beneficiary was also deferred as it relates to deportation.The eligibility limit for DACA was 31, so the characterization of it being exclusively for defenseless and innocent children is questionable.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Yep, and why should a 32 year old be treated differently than a 31 year old?
.At 31, one is still a cuddly, defenseless child, while at 32, one is a bestial illegal immigrant.You are, obviously, a racist for asking that question.Begone with you.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
> The question really boils down to whether, if a parent commits a crime, should the children be held responsible for the parent’s crime?Well the laws on immigration and citizenship say that they are not citizens and are here illegally.If you don’t like that, then blame Obama. If it is cruel to enforce US laws on immigration and citizenship, then blame Obama.
.This week, we saw three very important signals from President Trump.1. He put the DACA issue right where it belongs — Congress. 2. He made a deal to get the Houston/FEMA deal funded immediately. Not like the Sandy or Katrina storms which lingered for half a year or more.3. He made a 90-day deal with the Dems on the debt ceiling.What this displays is the no nonsense approach Pres Trump takes to getting stuff done and his challenge to the Republicans.Whilst McConnell and Ryan are sitting in the Oval Office and telling him they want to go for an 18-month debt extension, he looks at them and says, “Yeah, like you handled the Obamacare repeal and replace assignment, you clowns?”He looks at Schumer and Pelosi and says, “Deal.” Think about it — the Dems have now lost their cherries on debt ceiling and got nothing in return. Nothing.This gets the Houston funding, funds the Houston funding, and gets him the breathing room to initiate tax reform.It also sends a clear message to the Republicans. “You clowns can’t get anything done.” Now, they will have to work harder to prove him wrong.Pres Trump is systematically taking all the cans which have been kicked down the road and told them, “Road ends right here, right now, boys. Adios.”That is the attitude which gets stuff done. McConnell and Ryan are undocumented Democrats and can’t get anything done.Pres Trump has done several very interesting things which show his ability to get stuff done:1. He got rid of the RNC crowd who could not stop leaking.2. He got rid of Bannon, who was essential in his election, but an ideologue (English spelling cause I’m global). Pres Trump is not an ideologue. He’s not a Republican. He’s not a conservative. He is a doer.3. Pres Trump has delivered on virtually all of his campaign promises. He will continue to do so.4. Pres Trump performed brilliantly on Harvey. Got the funding.5. Pres Trump has gotten Syria to calm down. 6. Pres Trump has a lovely, accomplished staff.The Swamp is having a hard time keeping up with this 71-year-old teenager.It is not happening by accident. He is shrewd as Hell.Back to your regular programming: Trump bad. Russia.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Ah, while you did mention what Trump did on taxes, it was not on your first list of three! He also gave a nice “policy” speech (thus, only a few hundred people in the audience instead of “25 times that many”) in North Dakota, right in some plant, likely for fracking from the Bakken. It was good visually — he had several politicians, including one Democrat, come to the stage where he praised and shook hands with each of them, had Ivanka be really sweet, and had Harold Hamm, Mr. Bakken fracking himself, say about four words! Then Trump outlined his tax plan.Ah, one more: He had a long chat with Xi where he got Xi to admit that he wants a nuke-free Korea.Ah, for more, notice that he just decided to let Japan and South Korea buy lots of high end US military equipment and removed the limit on throw weight that South Korea could have (somehow the US still has some legal say over South Korea left over from the Korean War). At the same time he said that the South Korean trade deal is bad for the US!Notice that Trump now has, off the coast of North Korea, several small war ships, a Nimitz class carrier, an attack submarine, and an Ohio-class SSBN. An attack submarine? If the dumb Dung Dong starts to do something really dumb with a submarine, then that dumb boat will quickly develop a sudden, large leak and sink to the bottom of the Pacific. That’s what US attack submarines are designed for!Trump has Navy Seals training with some South Koreans on how to go in and take out a dirt bag, e.g., UBL.Notice the White House meeting on North Korea Trump had with a few people, Mattis, Dunford, Kelly, McMaster, … and what Mattis said at the end.Notice that the British are sending to North Korea a new ship with some Mach 3 missiles likely able to destroy an ICBM during launch phase.It looks like against wack-o, nutjob, dumb Dung Dong Pong Yang Ill Uno III and Ping Pong Yang Trump is rapidly constructing both rings and layers of both defense and offense. So, in the UN, etc., Trump is lining up other countries against North Korea. Trump has in place just off the coast of North Korea and likely in place in Guam and more plenty of US offensive fire power so that if the dumb Dung Dong pops off a nuke, then the US can respond to make the first such nuke the last one and level as much of North Korea as necessary; so, that’s the defensive part for now to keep the dumb Dung Dong from popping off a nuke while Trump builds the rings and layers more options.My guess is that as Trump has built the other options, but timing kept secret, the dumb Dung Dong will get an offer he shouldn’t refuse. But, being the dumb dong he is, he will refuse it. Then there will be some super fast, effective, non-nuke response, heavily directly from the South Koreans: The South Koreans will do a US Seal-UBL operation on the dumb Dung Dong and much of the top leadership (that our intel knows well). There will likely be some psychological operations, basically telling the rest of the North Korean people just to stay home where they will be safe. Then there will be no North Korean effective military response, e.g., Seoul will be safe from North Korean artillery. Then the Sourth Koreans will launch some hyper accurate, non-nuke missiles at the crucial on-line dumb Dung Dong offensive capability. Then South Korea and/or the USAF will drop enough suitable bombs to destroy the dumb Dung Dong missile and nuke infrastructure. Little or no nuke radiation will be released. Then the South Koreans will march into Ping Pong Yang, take it over, and turn it over to the UN. The US won’t even set foot in dumb Dung Dong land. No nuke radiation will be released. No Japanese will be killed. Few or no North or South Korean civilians will be killed. It will all be over in hours.To keep the exact time of the attack hidden, Trump and the South Korean will continually launch “training exercises” over and over until no way can dumb Dung Dong know which such “exercise” is the real attack.Ah, I forgot, also this week Trump has made good progress against ISIS, apparently from both the Iraq side and the Syrian side. E.g., Trump has got Assad calmed down and doing effective stuff and did this without pissing off Russia.He also signed the emergency paper for Florida.That was a good week!Ah, for more, this week it finally dawned on enough people to explain how the US actually has a good chance of winning in Akrapistan: A key is the outrageous restrictions Obama put on the US military. Basically Obama just didn’t want to defeat or even hurt the Taliban. Now we can both hurt and defeat the Taliban: They have no air defenses, no air force, no armor, poor communications, no artillery, next to nothing in military vehicles, poor logistics, etc. Mostly the Taliban areas are run by Taliban warlord thugs, and necessarily everyone knows who they are. So, make each of them an offer they can’t refuse. I believe that soon Trump can have what’s left of the Taliban crawling to Kabul begging to do just anything to stop the killing.Trump’s a smart cookie, a winner, who gets good stuff done. Of course, no one in Manhattan, SF, or DC will admit this!
Holy cow, what a recap Siggy.
Fred, the Dreamers were not born here, they would be Americans in that case. They came here as young children and, to your point spent most of their lives here. It’s simply cruel to not take this into account.
yeah i fixed that about a minute after i posted it.
100% agree.in this one case, i actually think trump is doing the right thing. shaming congress into action. putting the onus where it constitutionally belongs – in the legislative branch. immigration reform is never going to be perfect — duh, just look at past laws — but we are so overdue for a contemporary reform that treats all aliens with dignity and a path to citizenship, or at least legal status, or at minimum, a clear understanding of what rights if any they will have under the law. building a wall is bullshit. sanctuary cities are bullshit (their most recent predecessor was states and cities refusing to enforce civil rights laws in the 1960s, blecch.)all polls show a huge majority of americans in favor of loose but lawful immigration, with real enforcement but charity and a path to normality for illegals here already. Congress: wake the fuck up already and do your jobs
The way I read the Trump campaign is that he can fill most 15,000 seat rooms with supporters who very much disagree with what you wrote, and such supporters are one of the main reasons he won the election.Immigration can be simple, really simple: Enforce the long existing rules, procedures, and laws. As a lawyer once told me about a legal case of mine, morally they owe you everything; legally they owe you nothing. Well, legally the US owes the illegals nothing.The illegals are in the US in a word, illegally. The well known consequence for that is deportation. Simple.For solving this problem in the future, The Wall obviously will help. There is also the problem of drugs, TB, and more.Tough to believe that somehow we need “immigration reform” to say that the law breaker is right and the law is wrong.So, we have lots of arguments based on morality, the tradition that the US is a “nation of immigrants,” sympathy, something once said about the Statue of Liberty, something about little children of parents who broke the law, helping refugees, claims that US citizens don’t want to do work, that the US needs the help of immigrants, etc.For all of this vague philosophizing, I can find one main cause, money, fairly directly and then indirectly from power. So some people want the immigrants to work but not vote, and others want the immigrants to vote but not work. Both groups want the immigrants to be poor, dependent, relatively helpless, etc. Not good.For the immigrants here now, we are (1) throwing US citizens out of work, and we have 94 million such, (2) raising costs of K-12 education, social services, police protection, medical care, (3) creating an identifiable laboring underclass to be exploited (we tried that, fought a war, killed 600,000+ US citizens, now see that such stuff is, bottom line, too darned expensive). Those people are just not prepared by culture, traditions, education, to enter the mainstream of US society.
Page http://www.breitbart.com/bi…has Trump’s statement. IMHO it’s excellent, gets grade A or A+ on all the important aspects. It’s beautifully conceived and written.Trump is correct: The illegal immigrants are in the US illegally. So, they have to go. In his statement, Trump is being very kind, generous, understanding, and flexible about this, but they have to go.But, wait, there’s more: Over immigration, we are in a civil war, one that is mostly not violent yet.This civil war is just the same as the last one: Import an identifiable class, caste, of exploited, cheap labor.This time some of the labor comes voluntarily: If they live cheaply, say, six to a room, and save their money for, say, five years, then they can return home, with the US dollars, swap them for the local currency, and live relatively well. So, to borrow from Inspector Clouseau, they are using “The old currency exchange rate ploy.” Uh, yes, we should keep in mind that most countries try to restrict outflows of their currency!A lot of people in the US are very concerned about the illegal immigrants but not concerned at all about the US citizens, 94 million out of the labor force. Bummer.A lot more people and organizations really, really want to import cheap goods and cheap labor, but that puts US citizens out of work. Trump is turning this around.For a lot of US citizens, they and their families worked hard and sacrificed to get them through graduate degrees in the STEM fields. But some people didn’t want those people to get paid enough to support a family with financial security so arranged to use money from US taxpayers, including the ones that strained to get their own children through STEM field graduate school, via the US NSF to have grad school import foreign students and let them go through grad school for free. This way the US STEM fields were flooded with such imported workers, and a lot of US citizens had their careers ruined.We expect US citizens to vote to import people, and use tax money to help them, take the jobs of US citizens? That won’t work.DACA was illegal when Obama started it; it was also illegal for Obama to start it, and on this point he was fully clear.Just what is it about “illegal” some people have so much trouble understanding?For an answer, do the usual, “Follow the money.” Being humane has next to nothing to do with it.But we don’t expect anyone in Manhattan, SF, or DC or the NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, or NBC to understand any such things.Melania is also an immigrant, a LEGAL immigrant. There’s a difference there, the word “legal”. That’s a biggie. A lot of people who want to fight a new civil war over a new version of slave labor have a super tough time understanding this.Uh, e.g., Arizona Senator Flake wrote about how much immigrants did for his life. So, he wants more illegal immigrants. Sure, and immigrants did a lot for the life of Scarlet O’Hara while she was growing up, too.It’s an old story — slave labor. The Democrats liked it and still do. I grew up in Memphis, saw it, and hated it. It’s still going on in Memphis. I still hate it. Memphis is still fighting the civil war. The Democrats are, too. So are Manhattan, SF, and DC.But enough people in the fly-over states are strongly enough against slave labor to support Trump. Sorry, Democrats and slave drivers: You are losing this civil war, too.
FRED:”These kids, or adults as many are now, were born here in America and have lived here every day of their lives”. (Fred)Did you mean to say that the children of illegal immigrants who were brought here at the average age of 6 years old know no other country than the United States and are essential American because they only know the language and culture of the United States?Because if they were actually born in America they are Natural born citizens.—jus soli or jus sanguinis.In 1868, the U.S. ratified the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The first sentence reads: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
.Please do not reveal the lack of knowledge of the proponents of the liberal position on complex subjects, nor suggest they actually know what they are talking about.It is discourteous.Pretend to agree and ignore the actual facts. Do not read the law or the actual Trump XO. Do not bring any information to the rant. Again, discourteous.Move along, nothing to see here.Please, if you have time, an insult?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
that was fixed.
FRED:To whom much is given much is expected.Your responsibilities are many and the majority of Contributors couldn’t fulfill the duties of a daily blog responsibly. If they could they would.If the Right-wing contingency of the blog could get any traction on the Hannity, Limbaugh and Ingraham demagoguery they would have done it already.We realize you understand your responsibility. We sometimes know you need that constant reminder. Because after all your still human.
I thought this line of thinking from a Canadian politician most aptly summarized this whole unfortunately & unconscionable debacle: http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.427…Most notably, if you don’t feel like reading the whole ting, she makes her point here:””These individuals are low-hanging fruit for us,” Omidvar told host Rosemary Barton. “They speak fluent English, they’ve been educated in the U.S., most of them have been to college or university, some of them have work experience. They understand the North American working culture.””On top of that, in order to qualify to be a ‘Dreamer’ you have to have biometrics testing, you have to have a criminality check. So this is America’s loss but it could be Canada’s gain.””And that’s the gist. We can instead spend a ridiculous amount of money to prove an arbitrary point and expel a generation of people who want nothing more than to continue living and contributing here.
.Fewer than 5% of Dreamers are college grads. More than two thirds have community college associates degrees.The valedictorian, salutatorian, college grad, PhD argument is nonsense. Total crap.As is the “innocent children” meme. The upper end of eligibility was 31, five years ago meaning some of the Dreamers are 36 years old today.Just propaganda.You know the reason why most people are kicked out of the program or disallowed? Felony crimes. This is not a convent raised bunch of salmon.Still, the US Congress needs to make a law which is the law they want.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Your comment is factually accurate but misleading. Yes, a 31 year old could apply for DACA. But he would only eligible for the program if he had entered the US at age 16. At the time a 31 year old applied for DACA, he/she would have been in the US for more than half (ie “most”) of his/her life.https://www.uscis.gov/archi…Now, we can quibble about whether or not a 16 year old has agency in the decision to cross the border, and whether they are deserving of this treatment.But the broader point is that a 16 year old DACA recipient doesnt appear quite as absurd as your straw man 31 year old recipient.
.Not sure I get your point. Any DACA person had to be in the US before they were 16, right?Whether they were 8 or 31 when they applied, they had to enter the US illegally before their 16th birthday.There are a lot of other criteria, in addition.Let us reason together, shall we?The sales pitch that these are the “best of the best,” the future of America, and that they are headed to high school graduation, college, etc is not as believable at age 31 as at age 14. That was my only point.The non-HS grad at 31 could enroll in a GED course and be eligible. That is not the same thing as the sales pitch.Thanks.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
are they working and contributing to the economy legally because of DACA, using more of their talents?There were a bunch of studies on this subject, and the answer was yes. DACA was good for the economy, irrespective of college education.
What you are saying is something like this: they didn’t steal the money, their parents did, so they should be allowed to keep a part of it. Not fair to kids whose parents don’t break the law…
.“With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed …. [W]e’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws. There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.”OK, so for $10 who said that and when?I will make a contribution to the JJ Watts Fund for all correct answers in the next fifteen minutes. Are you ready?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Fred, you once put forth the possibility of turning off comments.Once again, this post, and the resulting comments, has been one of the most trustworthy means for gaining intelligent insight into opposing viewpoints and to even observe/understand some of the emotional response to an issue and/or the state of things.AVC would be an excellent place for some of our government leaders to lurk — if they are not already.
I had said previously that I thought there was a product idea for disqus in offering and packaging comments (anonymous) across all or their communities to various parties. In other words not limited to politicians but also the press, companies and so on. There is no doubt that there are entities that do not have the time to read all comments but would like to use the information in the comments for some business or political purpose.And there is nothing preventing a third party from doing the same with comments on disqus or any other platform. Not talking about an automated process either. (So ‘jobs’ are created..)
There’s gold in them thar hills.
Yes Donna. On the days of political posts I hardly comment. On such days, simply reading the comments is insightful and educational for somebody like me who lives in a different part of the world (although I did once live for nearly a decade in America, but it seems like a different country now).
I appreciate your insights Girish.
the conversation is just as lively, but the tone is way better.most people do behave if you ask them to.
I wish you weren’t right. I hate politics days.
Catching up on your AVC reading?
I’m in the middle of a move 2/3s across the country, my schedule is horribly messed up. So yes.
This article offered me tremendous insight to what was happening: https://www.reviewjournal.c… It echo’s some of Andyswan’s comments about sloppy executive orders that really need to be fixed by Congress, but Congress seems to want to make it political rather than use this as an opportunity to move it forward.
Nicely stated Fred and I hope Dreamers can finally live without uncertainty and political overhang. There should be nothing to debate, when the answer is simple, it’s the right thing to do…
.Yes, I can see the future. You buying us some BBQ figures prominently in it. There may or may not be beer, but there is definitely BBQ.Did I see you moving to Texas?Harvey was not my fault. Sorry.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
My ledger has the Shiner and BBQ on your tab, as it sits today 😉
.Done. You were right and I was wrong on at least one bet. Plus, you get the “welcome to Texas” TexMex and margaritas at Matt’s.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Looking forward to that, here or there!
Interesting to note that in the 2014-2015 school year, for the first time, white kids in the public schools were in the minority. The election was in 2016, By 2040 ,we are a people of color majority nation. Since there are more 3 year old brown babies than white, this is irreversible, no matter how many people are deported. It’s a conversation we should be having as a country.
Wait! Hold on! Stop the presses! Pour cold water on the grass root rioters and give them their pay envelopes! This just in!!!!Athttp://www.breitbart.com/bi…is”Flashback VIDEO: Hillary Clinton Calls for Illegal Alien Children to Be ‘Sent Back’”with video athttps://youtu.be/dtu50I9IMysSo, she was, what is the word the gang-up, pile-on MSM herd has been using? Let me think …. Uh, IIRC, the word was “cruel”, that Trump was cruel, inhumane, had no empathy, sympathy, or sense of morality or human decency, was not as rich as he claims he is, molests women (oops, or was that JFK and the 19 year old, White House intern, engaged, NJ debutante, from Miss Porter’s school), is sexist, nasty, racist, xenophobic, mentally unbalanced, not fit to be POTUS, won the election only with the help of the Russians and from votes of non-US citizens — oops, on that last one as in New Hampshire apparently they were voting for Hillary! Imagine that! Gee, wonder how many illegal immigrants voted in CA? Voted for who?Ah, can’t expect perfection, right? I mean, the anti-Trump people believed Trump would never run, never file the papers, never win any of the primaries, had no chance, ha, ha, big thigh slapper that he would win the Republican nomination, and in the general election he had no chance at all, less than an inebriated half of a half-wit, shouldn’t win a single state. So, with little imperfections like those, ah, wait while I consult with Joy Behar “95% percent of everything Trump says is a lie” IIRC.Ah, truth stranger than fiction, uh, I mean, from the pundits, NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Politico.But, but, but, if Hillary deported them, then it would be alright, right? I mean, we know that Hillary is honest, has high integrity, would never hurt an American (that stuff about Benghazi was just nonsense, right) and certainly wouldn’t hurt an illegal immigrant, I mean, a little Dreamer child??? I mean, I mean, I mean, she’s a Clinton and all Clintons are fully respectful, e.g., not sexist like Trump, would never rape or even molest women, would never cheat on their wife …!I mean, that Hillary lost the election was no fault of her own!!! The only reason she lost was that Trump was so friendly with the Russians!!! Those nearly invisible little blue men crawled through the wires of her home brew e-mail server and sent messages to the Russians. Or, she lost because of evil forces of the dark side.
We all want the best for the kids, but we all also need to answer, are we the land of constitution and laws? and what shall we do in next 20 yrs, do we keep allowing these kind of executive orders…
.Laws ARE the codification of right v wrong, good v evil, ethics, and morality.Legal immigration built the United States. Only the Native Americans can argue otherwise and the immigrants stole their land and their voices.Illegal immigration is unfair to American citizens and those who have waited in the legal lines to gain legal admission to the US.One cannot argue they are ethical and moral if they do not respect the codification of those concepts in the law.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
on this we agree. But.. a) it is important to deal with kids who came here through no fault of their own with dignity and kindness, and b) be open (with strong vetting guidelines and thresholds) to those who have been driven out of their lands through persecution.The stories of the thousands of jews rejected by the US in the 1930s are not well known, but represent a deep scar of shame.
Honest, I wrote mine about morality before I read yours! But, sure, it’s totally obvious except in Manhattan, SF, and DC.
I’m half a legal realist, half a legal positivist, who agrees with the likes of Hans Kelsen. I think people like HLA Hart took it too far if only because his basic premise of command theory[1] implies bum rushing the guy with the gun who makes the laws[2] is sort of impossible, since game theory really didn’t exist for HLA Hart so I will snort at and then reject the idea that laws are the codification of “right v wrong” or “good v evil” or “ethics and/or morality”I will say that is what people hope and think laws *SHOULD* reflect – but that doesn’t mean laws do reflect or codify any ethical stance[3][1] The short version of command theory and the most extreme 1.laws are commands of human beings2. There is no necessary connection between law and morals—that is, between law as it is and as it ought to be3.analysis (or study of the meaning) of legal concepts is worthwhile and is to be distinguished from history or sociology of law, as well as from criticism or appraisal of law, for example with regard to its moral value or to its social aims or functions4. a legal system is a closed, logical system in which correct decisions can be deduced from predetermined legal rules without reference to social considerations5.moral judgments, unlike statements of fact, cannot be established or defended by rational argument, evidence, or proof (“noncognitivism” in ethics)[2]HLA Hart posits that a crazy guy running around with a gun who will shoot you if you don’t follow his rules – that those rules are laws, since he’s running the area via his power of shooting people. It is a super extreme position, and it doesn’t cover how groups who do this work in terms of law, or how court cases work when the guy running around didn’t make clear rules, or stuff like that. You can see it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wi… Kelsen, with his positions on how groups work, makes more sense to me in this regard[3] Of course, then we have to justify the existence of ethics philosophically, because otherwise that should statement makes no sense and it would strengthen the argument that our gunman is doing the right thing since right vs wrong is a meaningless term without a sound system of ethics. And then you get to Kant sucks since if you want a consistent, logical ethical system, you get Kant’s categorical imperative, which seems to be impossible to actually exist.
.The issue of refugees, legal immigration, and illegal aliens are different issues.We should take refugees who have direct connections to the US and its citizens.From a foreign policy perspective, we should try to solve refugee problems regionally within the region. There is no reason why the US should be the primary recipient or even a large recipient of Middle Eastern refugees when rich countries like Saudi Arabia have enormous wealth, land area, culture similiarity, and are within the region.OTOH, if a person is displaced and has American roots or relatives, our REFUGEE policy should accommodate their plight with a commitment for them to pursue citizenship.Refugee policies and normal, legal immigration are not the same thing and mandate different approaches.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
.Be careful about agreeing with me, Cave. @arnoldwaldstein:disqus will have to put you on the blocked list and, worse, we will have to hear about it again and again.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
It’s plenty well known, e.g., is in the Herman Wouk Winds of War as a comment from FDR. And in that story, the US State Department comes off as solidly against Jews in any form, in the US or anywhere.
Today a lot of good facts, good reasoning, and good sense.But now there is a 1200 pound gorilla in the room: How the heck did so many people get so devoted to wild, irrational emotionalism, tossing US laws and the Constitution, plainly illegal behavior, risking another 9/11, open borders, throwing US citizens out of their jobs, adding to the welfare rolls, creating “no go” zones, bringing TB, measles, HIV, and other communicable diseases, etc.? That gorilla has done one heck of a brilliant selling job, better than selling ice to Eskimos, a better selling job than talking US women out of being mothers, etc.I know; I know; follow the money, and, right, there are a lot of people who want cheap labor, a new version of slavery. Okay, I understand them. Senator Flake explained that attitude well — he likes it that some illegal immigrants helped him like some other immigrants helped Scarlett O’Hara.But beyond overt slave drivers, there are, I believe in addition, a lot of people devoted to the cause of the gorilla without considering money for themselves. Sure, in the past we would call those devotees “convenient idiots”, but still the selling job looks unbelievably effective. Who is so smart as to be able to so deflect the US with so many devoted “convenient idiots”? What is this, some genius Russians?Maybe it is just Goebbels again: IIRC, “Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it, and eventually even you will believe it.” — so the propaganda has both the listeners and the tellers believing it.Obama and the MSM gave that gorilla one heck of a start. How Obama and the MSM Had the Gorilla Take Manhattan. along with SF and DC.I guess the good news is that outside Manhattan, SF, and DC, a huge majority see the gorilla as just silly talk, easy to ignore, or a TV drama no more real than Game of Thrones.Maybe I don’t have to look farther than some of the early scenes in GWTW to see how some people can be so “morally” devoted to ugly nonsense when it is very much in their own financial and social interests to do so.
why do refugees need to have a connection to the US to come here, ethically speaking
JLM, My question was related to politics and making judgements on leaders we do not know personally.I know from your comments over the last many years that you have had to make difficult life and death calls in combat. I am sorry I did not make it clear. I have the greatest respect for your experiences in life.My point was this. I am open to the possibility that Trump might be more effective than I and many others think so it is important to keep an open mind. Similarly, supporters of Trump need to be open to the possibility that he might be more guilty of shenanigans than they believe and that he might hurt some segments of the population if he makes missteps. Both sides need to judge it based on what happens vs. pre-suppose too much. It is hard to do this but necessary.Having said that, let us move on.
Look me up and who bought my last company. The third I’ve sold
I agree with your list of the current ills of he American political scene, with a +100 on a lack of ethics and the scandalous idea that public service should provide a politician a billionaire’s lifestyle ( I.e., Clinton Foundation ).You seem to be unwilling to analyze Trump objectively – he is absolutely a legitimate potential change agent, if only because he owes no one anything.You would have to back up your carnival barker / charlatan claims with facts to be taken seriously: anyone can get emotional and call people names, ask Arnold.I am not an American, however I believe the idea of America is one of humanity’s exceptional ideas.Sometimes, the execution of the American Idea falls well short of Exceptionalism.But, in the words of Winston Churchill, America can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all other options.I feel sad for Arnold, as he identifies the idea of America with only the view that make him feel good. Here in Houston, there are a ton of recent Harvey Heores that showed incredible bravery and service to others. Arnold doesn’t like them because they are blue colllar, low brow and not sophisticated enough for his view of America.He’s missing out.I don’t see Trump running America as a business.He appears to merely be stating that office holders should know what their job is and do it.As sad as that is, that makes him a legitimate change agent in DC.
There is very sound arguments being made by people like Scott Adams that those examples are ‘Dirsctional Persiuasion’.Knowingly glass or exaggerated claims made about a topic to provoke conversation about the topic,…..the falsehoods first, but then the broader topic second.There is no doubt that it worked – he set the agenda and dominated the news cycle welll spending fractionally on paid media.Not sure it’s an insult, is my point.
I have followed Trump fairly closely since he first announced as a candidate. E.g., currently my file system directory has 487 files or subdirectories on Trump, with lots of transcripts of just what the heck he actually, in reality, said, along with elsewhere on my computer full videos of some of his more important speeches.With that background, I don’t find him a “carnival barker / charlatan” at all. So, to me, yourThe evidence is abundant for anyone who followed the campaign, his rallies, his ‘debates’ or have read anything about his history.doesn’t hold at all, is not at all “abundant” in general or even significant in particular.What I do see is an coordinated, thus, likely organized, “mainstream media” (MSM) effort to publicize opinions, unsupported, by people who criticize Trump in any ways they can cook up. But, so far the worst criticism they have found that has any credibility is just something about two scoops of ice cream.So these opinions are just stated, something like gossip, no support, just repeated. And with the coordination, many of the criticisms are repeated on several of the MSM outlets on the same few, consecutive days, e.g., that in his trip to Corpus Christi Trump failed to show “empathy”. He didn’t show ability at tap dancing, karaoke, pizza throwing, charity giving, house repair, …, either. Instead he was at the meeting with the Governor of Texas, the head of FEMA, and several other officials to hear what was needed, to check that it was being delivered, and to check that the other work was being done. CRUCIAL meeting. Fully appropriately, the part about kissing babies, passing out food trays, meeting the actual suffering people, having Melania being a dream women to the suffering children, etc. was 2 days or so later when that would not get in the way of the crucial, practical, heavy lifting. There the intrepid MSM was mostly interested in Melania’s shoes, that is, the ones she wore from the White House to Marine 1 and maybe Air Force One but not on the ground in Texas. Dumb de dumb dumb, dumb MSM.Some people get taken in by such MSM nonsense propaganda.E.g., then the charge of lack of empathy was repeated, as if coordinated and organized, by the MSM just as in the Goebbels “If you repeat a lie often enough then people will believe it and eventually even you will believe it” — IIRC. Curious, ironic, and horribly ugly that the MSM, supposedly liberal, would borrow so heavily from Goebbels. Of course, the Goebbels statement about propaganda was correct, but, still, much more generally, lying is a bummer, and IMHO on Trump that’s about all the MSM does. Why? Because we are in a civil war, so far mostly non-violent, and the MSM is doing everything it can to win that war against Trump, really, drive him from office. It appears that the MSM wants to use enough propaganda to get Trump’s approval ratings way down and, then, take some little thing and use it as a means of impeachment. IMHO, that’s what they are trying. Really, as in some Sharyl Attkisson remarks, for the MSM attacks, they are lead from Manhattan by just a very few people, fewer than 10. Very likely much of the explanation would be from the usual “follow the money.”Well, the civil war is not working because Trump is doing too well on Paris Accords, TPP, Gorsuch, pushing back against North Korea, building good relationships with foreign leaders, getting coal miners back to work, helping Houston and Florida recover from hurricanes, bringing jobs back to the US, reducing regulations, getting the quasi-religion nonsense out of the EPA, getting people back to work, getting the growth rate of the GDP up, having business be optimistic enough to hire people and raise the NYSE, make good progress against ISIS, have some good strategy and tactics in Akrapistan, and much, much more.It appears that you have been strongly taken in by the MSM propaganda.In particular, you made your claim, just like the MSM opinions, with no evidence at all.So, for your claims, we need some references to some of the “abundant” evidence. Pick just a few of your best examples and let us learn about what we’ve been missing.
I find a ton of common ground here: Adams opportunism, Trump’s not always planned approach & his odious, divide the country gamble on attracting fringe ( nice term for them ) white voters in key counties.I also agree he is a master manipulator.But – stupid? No way.I am also less sold on conman. He’s obviously done some business deals where he paid little to no attention ( steaks, university, etc. ).He’s also gotten wildly over leveraged.But, he’s relentless, highly accomplished ( broke ino Manhattan RE, created a hit TV from scratch w no talent, became President from being a joke ).I get you don’t like his ‘ do anything it takes ‘ approach to getting the job done.I get that you are insulted that someone so crass is President.But, his results to date are pretty reasonable, despite the stumbles.Check back in a year – I bet you still don’t like him but you are surprised by results.
> which are often batshit crazy,I’d love to see references to your best evidence.
Thank you for being super polite in your argument style