Sonos priced it’s initial public offering last night at $15/share and will start trading today under the ticker SONO.
I am very fond of this company and the products it makes. The Gotham Gal and I are surely one of the company’s best customers.
I am not an investor in Sonos, nor is USV, and this post is not a recommendation to purchase the stock. It is a love letter to the company.
The love affair started twelve years ago, in March of 2006.
The marketing folks at Sonos reached out to me and suggested that they sponsor the music picks I used to run on the sidebar on the AVC blog.
I said yes and Sonos ads started appearing on the AVC blog that month.
I also received a test unit and reviewed the Sonos product here on AVC later that month.
A year later, I visited Sonos at their headquarters in Santa Barbara California.
Over the years, we have purchased so many Sonos devices that I have lost count. We use them everywhere.
I have also written about Sonos dozens of times here at AVC.
There have been many attempts to build a home music device that is better than Sonos.
They have all failed.
It is possible that Apple will get it right with the HomePod.
But they haven’t done that yet.
And even if they do, we will likely stay with Sonos as it works so well for us and we have them everywhere.
And now Sonos is a public company. Well played Sonos.
Surprised.Friction of using Sonos if off the charts. To this day can’t just stream any audio of choice through itPreviously it couldn’t hold its own vs generic Bluetooth speakers but did have the benefit of mutli-player/room sync. Now with Echo etc it doesn’t even have that going for it.Can’t speak to the business, but to the product suite, I’m super short.
I can stream whatever I want through it and do .
I dont use YouTube for music. But I have to believe that YouTube is supported by Sonos
It’s not! You can airplay YouTube to it though. I’m sure that will come soon.
For the cost, the sound is superior to bluetooth speakers with more control.
I hacked Sonos to play the live stream from my local NPR station. It was pretty easy to do. I bet you could hack it play YouTube, though I’m not sure why since sound quality on many videos is subpar.
“I am not an investor in Sonos, nor is USV, and this post is not a recommendation to purchase the stock. It is a love letter to the company.”You’re doing it backwards Fred.”Full disclosure, the acknowledgement of possible conflicts of interest in one’s work” https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…By consistently failing to acknowledge obvious conflicts of interest on this blog you are misleading your readers. That is assertion is irrefutable. I suppose you are doing so to further your own interests. But regardless of the reason (or reasons), even if you are not acting as a scofflaw you are at least being a scoundrel.For example, a simple sentence like “I am an investor in Kickstarter” is all you need to add to your posts about Kickstarter to fully disclose your vested interest. But you rarely disclose such facts.
Eyes wide open! He’s a venture capitalist!! (and in his spare time a human being). At times this blog becomes soft marketing for his investments and is on occasion a bit too ‘glossy’. I see that. I get that. I don’t buy that, and “scoundrel”, that’s a bit too much. ICO scammers are scoundrels (and much much more). Lobbyists are scoundrels. The owners of the Tour de France (ASO) are scoundrels. Oh, and Fred “owns a lot of Twitter stock”. Now you know. Full disclosure. I’m a natural born skeptic. Now you know.
Self-centered claptrap is not a proper substitute for reasonable discourse. Not everyone who reads this blog is as sophisticated and skeptical as you are. Many rules, such as laws, are put in place to protect those who are not able to protect themselves. Would you like to live in a lawless jungle where the strong prey on the weak?
Sophisticated – moi? If only you knew. I am the jungle.
Two things:1/ when I mention a USV portfolio company on this blog, at least 90% of the time I follow immediately with “a USV portfolio company”. Go look. The times I don’t are not intentional. They are on oversight and I’m sorry about that. I wrote 365 posts a year. I make a mistake now and then. But I do diclose my investments on this blog and have been for a very long time2/ how is there any conflict of interest in this blog post?
Fred’s Comment:1/ when I mention a USV portfolio company on this blog, at least 90% of the time I follow immediately with “a USV portfolio company”.My Response:That is a demonstrably fallacious assertion.Fred’s Comment:Go look. The times I don’t are not intentional. They are on oversight and I’m sorry about that. I wrote 365 posts a year. I make a mistake now and then. But I do diclose my investments on this blog and have been for a very long timeMy Response:You’re doing it backwards… again Fred. The onus is not on me to refute your claims but rather on you to authenticate them.Would you like me to “copy and paste” the numerous times I have remonstrated you for your frequent failure to clearly disclose your vested interest in your blog posts on AVC.com? You have consistently failed to heed my shrill warnings.Fred’s Comment:2/ how is there any conflict of interest in this blog post?My Response:Are you serious?I have explained this to you in my comments. Many, many times. Again…Would you like me to “copy and paste” the numerous times I have remonstrated you for your frequent failure to clearly disclose your vested interest in your blog posts on AVC.com? You have consistently failed to heed my shrill warnings.Your blog postings on AVC.com generally cast companies in which you are an investor in a positive light. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Talking one’s book is an accepted practice… when others know that is what one is doing.See, as I have pointed out before (maybe 6 to 12 months ago in one of my comments on this blog) AVC.com is not some tiny blog read by a you and few hundred friends and colleagues of yours. AVC.com acts as a public source of news, information, and education.Yet you proclaim, “This is my diary, my sandbox, my therapist, and more than anything it is my bar where I get to be the bartender.” https://avc.com/about/ It would be more accurate to include a statement such as, “Despite my attempts to be neutral, I often succumb to the temptation to actively promote companies in which I have (or have had) a vested interest. And sometimes I forget to mention which companies I have a vested interest in.”When a famous athlete appears in a television commercial it is reasonable to assume that people generally understand that the athlete is being paid to promote the product. After all, it would be bizzare for Coca-Cola to pay an athlete to earnestly promote Pepsi.But you frequently write about all sorts of things on this blog which you do not have a vested interest. You almost never write, “I do not have a vested interest in product X” (like you did in this posting about Sonos). Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that readers of this blog often think, “Fred is simply sharing some of his thoughts on this blog” instead of asking themselves, “What is Fred trying to promote with this blog posting?” That is not a subtle difference.Because blogs are a fairly new phenomena the rules are still being written. In other words, the rules are still murky. I realize you might not be legally required to disclose when you are promoting your vested interests on this blog but failing to do so is dishonest.Let’s take a look at…“I am a VC. I have been since 1986. I am also a husband, a father, a blogger, a music fan, and a bunch of other things too.I write something here every day. I’ve been doing that every day since September 2003. I hope to keep doing as long as I can write.This is my diary, my sandbox, my therapist, and more than anything it is my bar where I get to be the bartender. AVC is a place where everyone is welcome and the conversation is civil and lively.”https://avc.com/about/Notice anything missing there?At the very least you should post the names of companies which you have a vested interest under https://avc.com/about/ in a manner such as:I am or was an investor in:Company ACompany BCompany CPast companies matter because people don’t have an on/off switch whereby they stop caring about those with whom they toiled merely because their financial relationship has ended.
I’m pretty sure all that info is on USVs website.
If we’re on the topic of disclosure, I get more annoyed when online posters don’t disclose their identity. It totally cheapens anything you’re trying to say and brings very little contribution. Get lost Mr. Anonymous!
Why don’t you try arguing clearly instead of venting your misplaced frustration uselessly? You are not the first of Fred’s AVC minions who seems to relish rushing to Fred’s defense thoughlessly.
I hear he’s contemplating issuing the AVC Minion token. It’s a airdrop distribution, but you’ll need major sucking up points to benefit. Add an avatar for more colour.
Fake VC Troll.
AVC Community Code Of Conducthttps://avc.com/2017/01/avc…”4) We respect each other and are careful to use polite and civil language”
.To be perfectly fair here, Freddie is usually commenting upon private companies wherein the standards for potential conflicts are dramatically different as these companies do not provide the opportunity for anyone to obtain a financial benefit from information – there is no trading.The legal standard is really the dissemination of “material non-public information.” This applies to public companies and the US SEC will call you on it if there is even a whiff of an allegation.There are three tests – is the information material? Is the information non-public? Can someone create a financial benefit from possessing it, trading on it?Freddie is the Chairman of the Board of Etsy, a public company which exited from a USV investment through an IPO. I cannot imagine that Freddie did not get a real education as to what he can and cannot say as it relates to that company.When they were a private company, Freddie could say pretty much anything he wanted.When they filed for an IPO, he had to say nothing. Literally had to go silent other than if he participated in their road show in which case every word was scripted.Today, he has to be very careful not to “tout” the stock or to discuss material, non-public information. He also has to be careful not to comment in an arena which might not be considered “widely disseminated.” Since the advent of the Interwebs, the SEC has agreed that a well read website meets this requirement. It took them several years to come around, but they did.On this one, I am going to have to give Freddie a gold star. He’s done nothing even remotely wrong. Can’t even whiff it from here.It would not be an unfair assumption to suspect that every word that Freddie writes is talking his own book. One might suspect USV has some exposure in the crypto space, no?You can go to USV.com, click on their Portfolio tab and see everything they have invested in and exited from.https://www.usv.com/portfolioJLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Isn’t a great deal about the quiet period just over arching advice because lawyers know that clients won’t have the ability to understand the nuance of what can and can’t be said? Similar to in a way ‘don’t talk to the Police w/o an attorney’.Quiet period is very specific, no? Hard to believe that in actual practice there is a cause of action and that you can’t say anything at all. And I don’t think that is the intent of the law either. This is like when I asked a major law firm for a recommendation after they told me I did a great job and they said ‘oh we can’t do that bla bla bla insurance bla bla bla’ (bullshit idiot). So fine I will use your emails instead no problem.I hate things like this. This is exactly why our world is one big PC mess now. Nobody allows for any nuance. It’s all or nothing. Hate it.
.There are two quiet periods – 40 days after the filing of an S-1 (the doc to register the public offering with the SEC) and until it is deemed “effective” by the SEC. This applies to everybody.The second one is for 10 days after the IPO date as it relates to research or earnings reports/forecasts by anybody involved with the deal.This is law and the SEC is hard on it.During the roadshow, the IBers frown on any communication other than the roadshow itself.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
“To be perfectly fair here…”That’s a deliciously ironic way to preface your specious arguments. See my comment below that contains the following:”Your blog postings on AVC.com generally cast companies in which you are an investor in a positive light. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Talking one’s book is an accepted practice… when others know that is what one is doing.”My comments in that posting refute your poorly constructed straw man. You are not the center of the universe. There are other people in world besides you. Some of those people read this blog. But unlike you, some of those people are being lead astray when Fredprevaricates. Should cities abolish the requirements that most new building be wheelchair accessible because (I assume) you don’t regularly use a wheelchair? Many rules, such as laws, are put in place to protect the weak and vulnerable. Would you like to live in a Hobbesian forest where it’s “every man for himself”?
.Total baloney. You applied the wrong standard. Either bias or prejudice – your choice. End of story.You’re a guy with a cowardly, anonymous ax to grind in your own Kingdom of Darkness. A lot has changed since 1651.So be it, just don’t pretend you have any idea of what you are talking about.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
ticker SONO? hilarious. Are Sonos devices waterproof?
No. And they are really missing the boat by not making a boom box
https://www.doovi.com/video… Joe Born in Chicago is building boom boxes with the old brand Aiwa.
Very cool.Have a bunch of guitar playing buddies that rebuild old amps. Something undeniably cool about the artisan in human nature.
that’s probably next on the secret product roadmap, nicely timed to boost the post-IPO share price.
A portable Sonos for outdoor/the terrace would slay. I need that big time. Much better solution than running outdoor speakers through a $500 Connect: amp. When we go on our roof terrace, we have to resort to just blasting the speakers downstairs so we can hear it through the windows/doors 😛
Read their community pages – an outdoor water proof speaker is recurring topic…Not sure why they choose not to go there..perhaps now that they are a public company they will…the Beam is a $399 sound bar..vs their initial sound bar for $699 – seems like they are going down market a littleWe own and Amp, Sub, and qty 4 Play 1s.Planning on buying the Beam ( HDMI – Dolby 5.1), my Samsung monitor does not push 5.1 signal through the optical out line of .I will probably add some One’s as well…
I’ve been WISHING for waterproof ones for my back deck. I have two on my front porch in the summer and haven’t had any problems.
Timely.Shopping for a new TV and will need a sound bar. Which one do you recommend?
I can’t make a recommendation .Hopefully someone else here can
Wirecutter recommended the Sonos Playbar as a sound bar with Play1s for rear channels. I cheaped out and went with the Vizio wireless system. With the advent of flat panels I read and learned that any sound bar is a huge improvement over none. After my parents saw my system they were convinced. The big advantage is how much more clear dialogue is.
Very helpful thanks!
Wow. good to know!
Play Bar is the top end and best sounding “sound bar” in the Sonos line up and requires optical connection. This is probably where you want to be. In my apartment, we decided to go with the new Beam because our room isn’t big enough to really warrant the massive speaker, it works with HDMI so that I didn’t need a coax-to-optical adapter, it supports AirPlay (others don’t), and it has built in Alexa and (soon) Google Assistant.
HmmThe room where the tv is small so maybe your solution is bestIf u care to share a link that would be greatThanks
We have Sonos products and I’m not a fan boy. For convenience, yeah, it’s great. For sound quality, not so great. What we’ve seen over the years is the continued erosion and acceptance of inferior sound quality. Even mass market standards have declined in exchange for ease of use, aesthetics, etc. Most folks don’t seem to care, though. A lot has to do w/ source material, but I vastly prefer my B&W speakers. My better half’s response, “but they’re ugly.” And there lies the conflict.
That was a big theme on AVC back in the dayhttps://avc.com/2008/06/con…I opt for convenience over quality all of the timeI’d rather hear the music, see the art, etc etc than not
I opt for convenience over quality all of the timeYeah but iirc you have some issues with your hearing and most likely aren’t as aware of the quality issues.
Big thumbs up on this one and note in my comment (below Freds) that Fred’s feelings are most likely a result of his loss of some hearing range which he has talked about here.My hearing is (probably) 100% and I am on board with your thinking. I can hear a full range of tones and sounds. I actually go to great lengths to protect my ears. See picture of audio meter which I bought when I was wondering if I was playing things to loud to long (while I was exercising; I wasn’t).The only time I have found that sound quality doesn’t matter (as much) is if it’s paired with video (as in youtube videos). The reason for this is the visual information enhances the sound and the experience. So your brain fills in what is missing and enhances and magnifies missing audio.Sound is really important to me. I told the story here of how I returned a car that I had just bought after driving it away from the dealer on the expressway and not liking how it sounded (it was a convertible. I didn’t like not only the sound of the engine, but also the fact that I could hear trucks passing by and that further killed the sound of the engine and the zone that I like to get into. Also it was a 4 cylinder turbo and it sounded fake to me although others didn’t pick up the tinniness. Sorry no electric vehicles for me. I like engines and I like machines…. https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Ha, I’m actually deaf as a post. I’m sure you could straight line it right back to when I first heard Led Zep II. I’d blast my stereo at 10 in my childhood room incessantly. (Don’t know frankly how my mom tolerated it.) I have mild trouble hearing “highs to mid range.” Not sure if my displeasure w/ Sonos is cause of their inferior hardware or my (internal) inferior hardware.
I blasted the ‘stereo’ also but only when the parents weren’t home (I had Ohm speakers) and not that loud and not that long. And nothing like Led Zeppelin more Fleetwood Mac or YES, Supertramp, Billy Joel.Maybe since my sensitivity to noise is higher I was repulsed by music that was to loud to long and just noise to my hears. Never listened or cared for heavy metal. Stairway to Heaven? Never saw what was so great about that song. Maybe it’s because I didn’t take drugs or smoke pot or drink. (He brags).I need quiet most of the time and all the time. Got soundproof windows installed at the office and have custom ear plugs to sleep at night. Have a pair of 3m soundmuffs like they use on the airport tarmac just in case (one at office, one at home). Lawn crew has orders to get their work done before I get to the office or suffer my wrath. I hate leaf blowers noise it drives me crazy even with the soundproof windows which are installed over and in addition to the existing builder grade windows.
SONO. Will they ever be profitable?
They are profitable. Just this last Q was down YoY so they posted a small loss. The two quarters before that were profitable and I expect they will be profitable next quarter and for the full year. Their operating profit target is 14% which is up from here. I don’t know if they will hit that our not. Our IV model is attached here. https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
This might be interesting to you, a teardown/comparison versus Amazon’s speaker: https://blog.bolt.io/what-c…
Fred,I’ve only used Sonos for about the past two years, in a property we rent out during the Summer season and use year round offseason.What I love:Ubiquitous music is an excellent experienceThey are relatively simple to useThey have much better sound than any devices integrated speaker(s)They look goodConsThey can be incredibly difficult to do minor updates, like changing the WiFi. I installed an Eero system at the house and getting all the speakers on the new SSID takes 90+ minutes, with many fits and starts.When they stop working, debugging them can be a problem.The SQ isn’t as good as my wired speakers or a number of my high end headphonesI wish Sonos well in this new phase of their corporate existence. I love music, and SQ and they help make music ever present.
12 yrs, public. Success. Would like to see it easier to go public sooner in America so more people could participate in the upside. Would like to see incentives changed for private companies to go public faster.
I think “love affair” is the right term. There are moments of joy and passion with our Sonos speakers. However there are also heated frustrations and vows to break up and donate them to goodwill. To be fair I think making things work consistently and without fussing on WiFi is hard for everyone (check out user reviews of Bose WiFi systems.)We covered the $SONO IPO in our usual format. You can see the writeup here – https://ipocandy.com/2018/0…I love the comments on Fred’s blog. Helps get a view of the range of experiences people have had with the system. My wife prefers the Echo but we got our Sonos system before they had Alexa integration.
So few companies and products spark the emotion of love. I can think of no web tech companies that do.
I kind of loved my Apple products, now I think less so. (Maybe it’s the 7 year itch? ;-)I do love some technologies (Python) and tools like Sublime for editing, Zapier for automation, and how the web puts everything at my finger tips.When big companies get involved they seem to squeeze the love out of it.
Being loved and making money are often at odds.As an example look at Microsoft and Comcast. Comcast is totally scorched earth and Microsoft certainly used to be. I don’t know now all I know is that I curse that operating system any time I have to use it. God it is so so bad all those corporate types that used it and clueless small businesses really were lemmings (ok lack of business software but they are lemmings). Great business model though.And look at what Microsoft did to linkedin after buying it.I hope fat Reed is happy with what he has built and what happened to it. That product linkedin has totally lost it’s way. You know anything to keep the numbers growing even if your users are spammed by all sorts of nobodies that don’t mean anything to them at all.Of course I would have done the same thing and have.The quality with Apple definitely took a hit after Steve died. But the company is making more money and is more valuable.What would be interesting is if people and investors realized the upside of Apple with Steve dying moving even more mass market and not focusing as much on quality.
even $1t can’t buy love.
It works the other way. First, long lasting love.. and sweat.Then 1T.This is Jobs legacy.
is it love? seems like a substance abuse issue. Jobs created a drug.
In a sense yes, the falling in love type of love, an obsession.
Software is tough to love. I love Spotify, Dropbox, and probably Excel (labor of love). Other products I love my speakers, my coffee hardware, and my car. I use these items every day and always enjoy them.
.A hardware tech company with a 7%-10%-15% growth rate feels like GoPro to me.You show it as having a $1.3B projected revenue run rate. Is that a 30% growth rate given FY 2017 sales level?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
The only thing I would care about with this company is if the talent allowed it to segue into doing bigger and better things as a result of the IPO. And to further do those things (per our discussion the other day about large crushing small) better than the usual suspects. For some reason I don’t think that will be the case (but what do I know?)Speakers and products such as this are a niche honestly. Most of us don’t need those. Right now from what I can tell they are finally getting around to going public because they have to. Because Jeff is more powerful and can cut their (sorry) balls off anytime he wants (if he doesn’t buy them). Speakers in general aren’t anything like when we were growing up.For example this (and I know doom and gloom is often a big part of IPO offerings):https://www.cnbc.com/2018/0…Sonos IPO filing reveals Amazon’s incredible leverage over speaker maker and declining profitabilitywith:”Our current agreement with Amazon allows Amazon to disable the Alexa integration in our Sonos One and Sonos Beam products with limited notice. As such, it is possible that Amazon, which sells products that compete with ours, may on limited notice disable the integration, which would cause our Sonos One or Sonos Beam products to lose their voice enabled functionality,” the filing said. “Amazon could also begin charging us for this integration which would harm our operating results.”Note also that even with all the love Fred is not buying the stock. And that is with being a big music guy (but he has been burned as a result of that bias in the past and perhaps he has learned from that).In other news Jeff also did this:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/0…Brookstone files for bankruptcy protection and plans to shutter all 101 mall storesBottom line. It’s like in the meat business. “Sell it before you smell it”. In this case it was important to IPO before they couldn’t.I don’t buy stocks and this is another reason. I do have some money in the market but that is just FOMO money so I am not as bothered by what the market in general does.
Hey JLM, I’ll have to go look at that in terms of the run rate. For our IV we’re projecting 15% growth which is a bit ahead of management guidance. Maybe if it gets cheap enough… of course if it’s another GoPro…
So I checked and the $1.2B we have for the current year is based on the first six months, $655M, plus the recent Q, $208M, and about $300M for the last Q with the One and Beam shipping.
.Is it $1.2 or $1.3B?Didn’t Sonos do $992MM in FY 2017 and wouldn’t that show a higher growth rate – $992M >>>> $1.2/1.3?21-31% in revenue?JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Thanks for sharing you analysis. I enjoyed reading it.
A plug for Meridian Audio (British company, British manufacturing). After Brexit we’re gonna need export sales to survive. https://www.meridian-audio….
My bro-in-law’s $100K system has Meridian components. Swears by them. He keeps refining his system every few years, but for the life of me he’s the only one who can hear the diff pre/post. Either his ears are super sensitive or it’s plain ole purchase validation. Prob both.
I wish my company would relocate to Santa Barbara then go pubic… F that is awesome.They should buy that SB community college on the ocean and make that Sonos HQ2
Big Sonos fan here. They aren’t prefect, but they are, by far, the best on the market in terms of hitting the sweet spot of sound quality, ease of use, integraition with services, and they look pretty nice to boot. My life changed a lot in terms of loving them even more when I went with the Subs. That thing thumps and really makes even my rooms with play:1 speakers sound pretty darned good.
Sonos has had the home audio market cornered for the ease-of-use, for a long time. There are now options that can far outweigh what they offer, both on sound quality, sharing music throughout the home and the UI. Roon Labs, https://youtu.be/u1LvfgOQ3JY while still a niche product, offers an incredible experience on phones and tablets, search capability on metadata that is truly astounding (i.e. cross reference the engineer, guitarist, producer, lyricist, the guy who plays the bongos on the cut you love) supports home zones and can run on a NUC, NAS, laptop, and they now have their own dedicated box. Plus, they are adding new hardware partners all the time. Also, Bluesound is a UK based Sonos competitor whose own speaker lineup is superior to Sonos and their feature set is similar to Sonos. But for this music aficionado, nothing is beating Roon with all the various wired and wireless speaker options that can pair with it.
Their name sounds almost like Ruin.
They ruin you for anything else:)
an Alexa user for amazon music, what’s the easier way to upgrade to high end speakers ?
I love this post 🙂 This is a great example of “Fred being Fred” post. Evernoted, pocketed, bookmarked, Keep’ed etc etc
I LOVE my Sonos! I started my love affair in 2010, though I will say that they did have a period of glitchy software updates and I lost all my playlists as well as my ability to play music stored on external devices, forcing me to copy all my music over to an internal hard drive. But they magically fixed all that a couple of years later and the updates lately have been smoother and more reliable.They did do one dumb thing last year — they forced an update ON Thanksgiving and I was playing music in the background and there were guests here. It forced me to do the update before being able to use the app from my phone and, once complete, all my speakers were disconnected and I had to reconnect all the speakers from scratch. This was a major pain ON A HOLIDAY when I didn’t need that kind of hassle. They could be a little more thoughtful in planning the days/times of their updates in the future.
.This IPO feels like GoPro to me.GoPro was a tech hardware (cameras) company which had a “cool” product. It came out at $24/sh, traded up to $35.76 the first day, hit an all time high of $86.97 and today trades at $6.00.The juice was out of GoPro within 2 years of its IPO and today, a total of 4 years from IPO, it is trading flat. Still a great product.Meanwhile, China is knocking the Hell off of GoPro cameras. A Chinese knockoff sells for less than $40 while GoPro continues to sell at luxury goods prices. China first wiggled in on the GoPro accessories market.I love GoPro cameras, but the Chinese knockoffs are as good when it comes to pics and video. I would not be surprised if their guts were identical. This is a perfect example of the complaint against China of stealing tech and knocking it off.Sonos came out at $15 and is trading up to $18.15 already. [Proving once again that the investment bankers will price your deal so the greenshoe 15% overallotment makes them a lot of money.] Sonos should have held firm on its proposed issue price.Sonos, like GoPro, is a superb bit of tech wizardry. It, unlike GoPro, has existing competition and from some very big companies.China will be knocking Sonos’ products off within six months.The Sonos growth rate is anemic for tech IPOs showing the danger of putting the word “tech” in front of anything hardware related.Sonos has a fairly common knock of being tough to work with.The Sonos growth rate is nothing to write home about. Yawn.Sonos = GoPro?I think so.[I am getting very leery of companies coming public with zero earnings.]JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Yep agree. Also gopro founder Nick Woodman took his eye off the ball. He was on Shark Tank as one example.The lesson I learned about the mass market and quality is what I learned in the 1980’s. I had just purchased a $180,000 Linotronic typesetter (in today’s dollars) which I was able to hook up to (among other things) a Mac 512k to make type. It also had a traditional front end where you had to program to get type. Really difficult to even draw a box. So the minute I saw what a mac could do I knew it was going to be big in publishing (and it was of course big market for Apple).Back then type needed to be super professional for almost any purpose other than a church flyer.But then a funny thing happened. People started to typeset using 300dpi laser printers in their office which had just come out recently. At first everyone in the business laughed. But we were underestimating how people cared more about price and not quality. Then of course the laser printers improved to 1200dpi and could be accepted even for more serious business use. And type changed to be much less formal and wacky. I think the same thing happened with music in rock vs. classical possibly (but don’t know much about that history wise but it sure sounds like that).Luxury is a niche it’s not a mass market. The only people that have really proven this wrong is Apple but with that there are way different dynamics and also Apple did more than quality they actually do make a much easier to use product.
.Apple took their existing customer base and broadened their offerings. That was marketing genius.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…
Go Pro never made sense to me. For early adopters, yes. Adventure seekers, yes. End of story. (Should have marketed more aggressively to families, especially w/ new borns.) Video capabilities for the masses very well satiated by video capes on their smartphone. In home music system is not a similarly niche product. Most w/ a streaming music sub will end up w/ some sort of in-home wireless speaker system. Yes, headphones work for singularity, but in any group or entertainment setting, speakers are a must. What we’ll undoubtedly likely see, however, is category commodization driven by price. Crowded field likely to get more so. Branding and image are impt., though.
For gopro refer to Video Spigot by Supermac (who I worked for for a short period of time when Steve Blank was there):https://steveblank.com/2009…I didn’t recognize the behavior at the time, but anyone who loves technology and gadgets has at one time or another has bought a technology toy – USB memory sticks, iPod Shuffles, umbrellas with LED lights, alarm clocks that talked, Flip Video Cameras, etc. – used them for a while and then stuck them in the drawer. The product does what it said it would, and amuses you for a while. You don’t regret the purchase price because you got entertained and then you lose interest – the Novelty Effect. So the market for gopro is both people who continue to use them (small after all how many people need a video while surfing or mountain climbing?) and novelty (large) but novelty is not repeat buyers and after they ‘blow thar load’ (said like salty seaman) will not buy another product.
I feel the same way.I don’t remember exactly when I bought my first Sonos, but guessing that you / AVC had something to do with it. For the longest time, it was my favorite technology system in our house (Replaced about 3 years ago by the Peloton bike…).That said, the software updates haven’t always gone well, I’ve found myself going for the ease of “Alexa, play ____ on Spotify” on my echo devices more and more, and haven’t bothered to look into their voice integration or any system upgrades in years. Most of the time I use Sonos these day, I trigger it from the spotify app, not from their own app, which is my own fault but disappointing.
I’m not convinced at all. I love the concept but have had a similar set up using Pure for about 4 years at a fraction of the cost. Amazon, Google and Apple are going to eat them for breakfast. I’m not an Alexa fan but I’m noticing the mainstream adopting it at a rate of knots, music being the primary use once the novelty has worn off
I think they are great too. I have a dozen devices. As a Google Assistant user, I’m really interested in GA integration and I’m disappointed they started with Alex and Homekit integration over GA.
Ditto. I’ve tried a ton. Nothing tops Sonos. Totally smitten. One of the few products IMO that out-Apple’d Apple.Breeze to set up. Link. Add-on. They look great. And sound great.Their app can be improved (it keeps taking steps backward in UI/UX), but that’s a minor quibble.
Apple won’t even come close so long as they don’t allow Spotify etc.I do enjoy our Google homes.
I’ve purchased one set of Sonos devices (a playbar and a sub) – in large part based on the effusive praise from several people I know who admire their products. I needed something for a new TV and wanted a solution that would be as simple and cordless as possible. The system works great today, but I have to say my experience setting it up was nightmareish. Numerous factory resets, contacting support for help, eventually buying one of their wireless stations so these two devices can talk to each other on their own network (despite having a fairly beefy router with very little else using its wifi), and even then, it was a week before I finally got it to work. It really wasn’t a fun out-of-box and setup experience. To this day, I do not touch the Sonos app on my phone because I’m afraid it’ll lose the devices again. I don’t imagine I’ll be in a rush to buy Sonos again when I decide to get proper surround sound for my home entertainment system, but I’d be open to trying them again in the future if I hear they’ve overhauled how they handle the software/networking side of their product. I certainly have no complaints about the sound, and they sure look good.
“They have all failed.It is possible that Apple will get it right with the HomePod.But they haven’t done that yet.”I was really hoping that Apple would have bought Sonos b/f they released the Homepod, …and then presumably come out w/ a Sonos powered version of the Homepod.Good news is that the newer Sonos products support Airplay 2