Voice Input - Some Observations

Comments (Archived):

1. I purchased an extra google home mini to put beside my monitor. It’s extremely convenient to ask questions without switching tabs/windows to google. Could it have been a win10 app? Sure, but google got my $29 instead 🙂 (it was a sale)

2. How about Bixby on the Samsung? It pops up for me, now and again, but I’ve never used it. Is it worth trying out?

   1. No. It sucks, AND is proprietary.Although their hardware can be top-of-class, I’m hard-pressed to think of even one Samsung-specific offering that has been better then Google’s. Over the years, they so often look promising in the demo, and then you shut them all off after a week (and even root the damn thing, if you’re me).

   2. so you are now using a Samsung? no Xiaomi?

      1. Both 🙂

3. I agee they are useful as an adjunct to working at a key board for multitasking like sports scores, weather etc. A few voice driven apps like jeopardy are fun while riding an exercise bike. Just got the apple home pod , still sitting here, will use with apple music.

4. Timely.Replacing flat screen in living room this week, and rethought display I wanted, then sound system so a good time to add a new behavior on search as yes, navigation with Apple TV is really poor.

   1. Whatever you do make sure not to buy a LG 55UH7700 or more importantly any LG that works the same way (look at the specs it’s the remote that causes issues). We bought one of those and the remote is one of those that you point at the screen. For one thing the cat is always chasing the screen icon as it moves. But more importantly doing even the simplest thing is impossible the way they implemented the interaction between the screen and the remote. In the store it looks cool but in actual use you will curse to no end. We are going to put it in the basement (we have basements here) and buy a cheaper set that doesn’t have the same type of remote setup.Also it is constantly asking and interrupting when we turn it on if we want to update the software so annoying. You know how hard it is to say ‘no’ using a remote with no lights on it in the dark.

5. alongside not reliable, convenient or safe, another use-case i’ve found is when you want a ‘public response’, meaning:google will deliver back info in the form it’s asked, as in, if i type a search it will give me a written response, but if i voice a search i get a voice response.if my wife asks me what the weather is tomorrow, or the time to drive to x, i’ll ask Google using voice, that way she hears the response in full and saves me having to read it and then relay it to her.

6. so “voice me” isn’t yet a cultural thing? i can wait.

7. Voice input results in 2018 has come some way since Jamie siminoff’s phonetag/Simulscribe of about 10 years ago, but not a huge amount.I’m standing at a Swiss train station, attempting to dictate this into my phone, and I still can’t really rely on just hitting send unless I proofread like crazy.I’m really not super bothered about the security issues here. I’ve turned off the “hey Google” functionality so this thing is (in theory) only listening to the microphone when I ask it to. Google does save all these dictation recordings on their server, so I don’t use voice dictation if there’s anything sensitive at all. On the other hand one could argue that advanced AI could turn even this particular comment into identifiable data! Resistance is futile…

   1. if it could read back what you have said then life would be so much easier.

8. Here’s more about the Siri Apple TV remote: https://support.apple.com/e…https://uploads.disquscdn.c…

   1. good advice.. RTFM 🙂

9. I almost always use voice for mobile search – it’s by far the easiest search input format I’ve found. I don’t use it to dictate messages (still not accurate enough), or on the TV. For the latter I pull up content on my mobile and cast my screen using Chromecast. The AppleTV remains largely untouched.Also, some data below on voice usage.https://infographic.statist…

10. The one note I would point out here is that you (and really even your kids) are a ‘transitional’ generation when it comes to voice….you have ‘old’ ways that work well enough and voice isn’t as native to you as an interface as it will be going forward…Just something to keep in mind.

    1. Right.”Recent” [1] post by Fred:The Return Of The Command Line Interface:https://avc.com/2015/09/the…[1] Recent, as in 3 years ago. An eon in Internet and startup time, I know …Maybe I should have said “ancient post” 🙂

11. I had some other thoughts on why humans might have trouble here: The whole behavioral thing … http://streetfightmag.com/2…

12. I was also very frustrated setting up accounts on Apple TV as well until I realized the voice input works for password entry as well.There are two places I use voice for similar reasons and it always works well enough: Apple TV data entry and search, and Apple Watch sending texts on the go. It always seems to hear me pick the right recipient. I cannot remember the last time I had to repeat or not send because it transcribed incorrectly. I don’t use Siri otherwise.

13. HUMMMMSo I placed a late bet on Apple’s Siri:1. Our entire home is iOS – 5 iPhones, 4 iPads2. I am trying to use HomeKit:> Several Lutron Dimmers/switches> Honeywell Lyric T6 Pro Tstat> Thinking about getting a Schlage sense lock/dead bolt3. Two Apple TVs (3rd & 4th gen)4. Assuming next car we buy will have CarPlay ( we bought a 2015 Jeep Cherokee) – I think Jeep now offers CarPlay vs the UConnect platformSo I am assuming Siri will learn about me and I will learn about her& Yes – I agree Apple TV remote is cumbersome – I was searching for a movie on the Apple TV a few weeks ago …and my 14th yr old son started to peck the name…and I said – Jim just talk to the remote …and sure enough – it came up first try…..BTW – if you have an iOS device – it has a Apple TV remote app – I find it a little easier then the remote that came with it ….BTW 2 – after reading your post about the Apple TV – late last night I was also trying to program it re: apps etc….- it is a pain to enter our cablevision creds each time for the traditional TV apps CNN, ESPN, etc….BTW 3 – planning on getting a smart ( latest gen) Sonos player – and then I should be able to control some of the legacy Sonos players on the HomeKit app

14. There is an Apple TV Remote App that you can download to your iPhone (I’m not sure if it’s available on Android) where you can type in passwords, searches, etc. right from your iPhone. It is way easier to use than the Apple TV Remote.

    1. My understanding is that this only works if the Apple TV is on the same WiFi as your phone–correct?For my living room where connectivity comes into the apt and where the router is I hardwire the Apple TV to the Internet for better speeds obviously so seems like this won’t work.

       1. Yes, good point. The iPhone and the Apple TV must be on the same WiFi network so for your scenario, this won’t work unfortunately.

          1. I’ll do this in another room with another TV but the tradeoffs are worth it to have lightening fast connectivity I think,Thanks!

15. the most stunning aspect of this otherwise pleasant and thoughtful post is that fred owns a jeep. those things are lame. i own a jeep, but only because i got a very good deal on it. i doubt you need to be as price conscious as i do so i hope you alleviate yourself of this self-imposed torment.IMHO voice is true destiny is in robotics and other applications where text input is not even possible. but, even this analysis i think is too narrow. 20% of google searches are conducted by voice already today. that’s a pretty sizable market share. and some folks are reporting that 40% of adults conduct at least one voice search a day. i’m definitely part of the 40%.

    1. are Jeeps powered by fossil fuels, or electricity?

       1. i don’t know if they differ by model, mine is fossil fuels

       2. Fuels, the older ones at least, don’t know about latest models. But I guess conversion from fuel to electric maybe possible, although it would likely require a lot more work than say diesel to petrol jeep.

          1. diesel is a nasty. i refuse to use my city’s public transport bus fleet because it runs 99% on diesel. they’re not getting my money. i’m not economically supporting that disgrace.

             1. Good point, I’ve heard it’s more polluting than petrol, and seems so from observation too (more fumes, more particulate matter [1]), but we did not know that back then. No Internet and not much other info on it, unless you dug around a lot. I was into green stuff even back then, so would have tried to do something about if if I had known.[1] Was talking about the diesel engines of those days, though. I’ve read that later, companies have developed better diesel engine technology, from the POV of vibration, combustion and (hence) maybe less pollution too. LIke in Mercedes Benz diesel cars and others. Don’t know details though.

    2. Old Jeeps are one of many Rich Man – Poor Man things. One for necessity, one for enjoyment. Think raising chickens, a large back yard …

       1. i guess….i don’t understand how anyone can enjoy a jeep though. i have a jeep patriot, so not a fun one with the doors off or anything, though to me those are even less fun. maybe i am just a curmudgeonly old person. which i’ve generally aspired to being, so at least that’s a good thing! 🙂

          1. I found driving a jeep to be great fun when I drove one for a few years in earlier years. Was near the start of my career, I was working on a dairy farm, and and used to drive a jeep daily between the farm and the town. It was first a petrol jeep, and their acceleration was much better than the cars of the day (in India). Converted it to diesel (using an agricultural pump engine, go figure! that was common practice then, to save on fuel costs, both because diesel was cheaper than petrol, and the diesel engines had better mileage/liter, even some Royal Enfield Bullet motorbikes were converted to that, although the vibration due to the diesel engine was too high in a bike. it was high even in the jeep). After conversion, the torque was pretty damn high. As I wrote here in an earlier post, it was so high that I used to notice, driving up a fairly steep and long hill, after driving on a flat stretch before it, that the speed of the jeep did not reduce even a little. Amazing stuff.I also used to do double-declutching with it to zip around a turn.https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…

             1. And they were very powerful vehicles, more so when put into 4-wheel drive mode. A mechanic told me that a jeep can pull a fully-loaded truck.Some jeep links:https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…(The one I drove was a Willys.)https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…https://www.jeep-india.com/…https://www.kaiserwillys.co…

    3. I know there are definite reasons why Fred has a Jeep instead of the same functionality in a better vehicle (same reason Phil Sugar drives an old pickup vs. a new one) but it’s a quirk of human nature to me when people operate like that.My theories are as follows:a) Jeep in a high class place (where Fred vacations) are a status symbol because they are down market. And Fred is bothered by others trying to show off. So he likes to look as if he isn’t pretentious. I had a friend who had a 911 convertible. He told me “In the Hamptons I am a piker with that car”. (He had rented a place for $70k for the summer a few years ago..) He gets a buzz by driving a cheap car (same as Phil Sugar does and you know you do Phil, right?) [1]b) Josh drives it and Fred doesn’t want him to beat up a new vehiclec) Cars just aren’t that important to Fred (after all he hates ICE)d) He thinks for the usage it would be wasteful.Honestly though Jeep as a brand is really honestly junk. And if you can afford better why have to sit and go for service at a Chrysler dealer. What is the point of having money if you don’t use it to make your life easier.[1] As part of my practice into not giving a shit what people think I will park my car on a slant at my work parking lot and love the nasty letters pin to it saying ‘who do you think you are!’. (All on security camera btw..) My point is I am not going to not enjoy things because of the wrath of public comments and opinions.

       1. It’s just because of the utility, memory, and fact I can just jump in. But probably the biggest reason is that I do long sometimes for a simpler time.One where I can fix my own stuff. Tail light out in Denail??? $600 for the part. (Go to eBay a tech in MN fixes lifetime guarantee for these POS lights for $100, had two go out)My truck? All bulbs, backup, hazard, brake, the same. Cost 2 for $5, all 6 for $10, Autozone guy came out 2 minutes later, everyone replaced.New Jeeps, yup. But that bobbed duce and a half at your nephews wedding? Considered one. (It is bobbed because they got rid of the second back axle and instead of having two wheels on each axle they went to one, so eight wheels down to two in the back)

          1. I don’t long at all for simpler times (at least not with autos). That new car smell (toxic or not) is magical to me.

             1. I do not long for the days wondering if it would start, or would breakdown, or would be hot, and smelly toxic but not a good smell.(I had a 1959 TR3 and a 1963 TR4 and the all time worst a 1985 Maserati Bi-Turbo Convertible)A Mazada Miata will kick those two. No smell A/C, doesn’t leak, drip, perfect rideAnd any new convertible wins.But things have gotten too complex.That pickup truck starts instantly. A/C blows cold, hauls a load. If I had a fancy new one I would feel bad hauling stuff.

    4. . https://uploads.disquscdn.c… You never forget your first Jeep.Back in the day, Jeeps were a macho thing. Here is me and my Jeep when I was in South Korea in the early 1970s. Those hills in the background are North Korea.The best thing about the Army was the Jeeps. In the combat engineers, you got one if you were a platoon leader or a company commander. No Jeep for staff officers.This Jeep had a very powerful radio I could use to talk to Division and it had a machine gun mount which I never used. You had to drive with the top down, but you were allowed to drive with the windshield up if it was cold.In this particular Jeep, I used to construct roads, using demolitions and dozers, to the top of mountains facing into N Korea whereon we built artillery firing positions and GSR (ground surveillance radar).I was driving in this Jeep at about 5:30 AM on a payday morning bringing the money from the Division HQ to my unit on the DMZ when a bandit jumped out into the road with a pistol and attempted to rob us. My guard shot him dead with an M-16, my driver just kept on driving. I was hunkered down in my parka trying to sleep. The payroll I was carrying was probably $200K in MPC (military payment certificates).When I finally realized what happened, the driver wanted to go back and see if there was anybody else in hiding. I told him to keep driving and I called the MPs on my radio. They came and got the body. Never heard anything more.I was not in this Jeep when it rolled over a Korean War vintage mine which destroyed it. The same driver was driving it and he was thrown clear. I got a new Jeep.I loved that damn Jeep and would use it to sneak down to Seoul and get a steak at the Naija Hotel. I had to drive to the east to avoid all the 2nd Inf Div and ROK checkpoints. Thank God I was never caught or I would have been court martialed.I was 23 years old in that pic and was already a company commander as a First Lt.Korea was cold, but we slept outside all winter when we were up on the DMZ doing projects.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

       1. You never forget your first Jeep.Interesting in my analysis of Fred’s use of the jeep I had never consider my concept of ‘secondary meaning’. As such I forgot that Fred was raised on military bases in a military family so he might have that as a factor in his acceptance and/or love for jeeps…possibly.I have nothing such as that baked into me. Hence I judge the jeep based on features and quality and not emotion. This is the same reason I tolerate a Porsche 911. It’s emotional. Not a purchase that is practical at all (even as a 2nd car honestly). God knows though it’s a party in my brain. Why ‘you never forget when you first saw some guy driving one when you were in high school’. Icons are icons and jeep is certainly an icon.After my Dad was liberated in WW2 from the camps he got a job helping the OSS and I have a picture of him in a jeep with American Soldiers as they hunt the Nazis. (He is not as good looking as you are in your pic btw or I’d post it here).

    5. i was shocked. i thought he owned a Tesla.

16. “Allen Iverson crossover Michael Jordan”Yesssssssssssssssss

    1. Just showed it to the kid

17. .Back in the Mad Men day, business executives used to dictate their letters. I always had secretaries who could take dictation at a fiercesome rate. She would get all my letters from the mail and read them, putting the important ones on the top of the stack. I would read them, make a few notes, and then dictate answers. My secretaries were always rock solid on short hand.I would often dictate replies to 15-20 letters. In less than a half hour standing at a standup desk which seemed to make me think better.Secretary would type out a triple space first draft, show it to me as she finished each one, I would make a quick edit in the line spaces, and she would finish them. I’d sign everything before I left for the day. She would make copies and prepare them for the files.It would take about 2 hours to finish off 15-20 letters.I was much less verbose in my answers in those days.I would do the same thing first thing in the morning for outgoing correspondence. She would finish by lunch time and I’d edit before I left for lunch. She ate at her desk and revised them. I always felt guilty that she ate at her desk, but I assuaged my guilt in her comp.I learned how to do this when I was in the Army and worked for a General. He was crackerjack at this and I just mimicked him.I tell you this because the ability to use something like Dragon is potentially a great time savings, but you have to teach yourself how to do it. Nowadays I never do it because I can type so fast and I think better as I type.JLMwww.themusingsofthebigredca…

    1. In grade 8 typing i told the lovely Miss Olsen, well into her 60’s at the time, that ‘I doubted I would ever need to learn to type because I would have a secretary to do that for me……..’Oops.

    2. I would read them, make a few notes, and then dictate answers.Although I never had a secretary and never dictated letters (I was able to type very well as I have noted) I think people will probably miss the larger point in your comment that having to dictate (instead of type and being able to edit) definitely trains and improves your brain in a very positive way. I know that for a few reasons including that it is really hard for me to not be able to type and edit to get the perfect way to phrase an email. I could never dictate a letter and be happy with it (even with a secretaries help). I could learn of course but no reason to do that.Like you said: but you have to teach yourself how to do it.My dad used to say that about math ‘you have to train yourself’.When I sent postal letters (in the 80’s) I had the advantage of a computer and editing (and likewise in college as I have noted I could do papers and print them out on the school computer and a daisy wheel printer). Another advantage I had was nobody to help or comment on anything I did. That was a big benefit in terms of learning to think. Point being there are things that appear detrimental that net over time are highly positive.The question is were you good at this because you were good or did you also become better and smarter because you had to do this? Sure it’s a little of both like with anything.I worked for attorneys in college and used to marvel how they sat there and dictated letters. Physicians do the same however it’s not the same they are basically regurgitating facts and giving treatment plans etc (which are not being reviewed in the same way an attorney or business person’s letter will be). [1] One of the attorneys was a real estate developer ntim.One of the reasons I comment here even though I am busy 7 days a week as much as I do is that I feel it’s good for my brain and positive in so many ways. In addition to the fact that I obviously enjoy doing it. I take time from important things to comment here.[1] The secretary was so busy she didn’t have the time to learn to use the word processor that allowed editing a letter or storing a letter. So she just did them manually IBM Selectric (loved those) and in a sense she also had to be more skilled to get it right with little correcting.

       1. Heard a fair amount about the IBM Selectric typewriters earlier, but never saw one. What were the good things about them?That reminds me, I used to have an IBM PC Jr. as a home computer.Blogged a bit about it here:Lissajous hippo, retrocomputing and the IBM PC Jr.:https://jugad2.blogspot.com…That post also links to the site of another PC Jr. fan who worked in IBM, and who wrote a whole TCP/IP stack for the machine. and people use it.http://www.brutman.com/mTCP…

          1. They used a ball powered electrically with the type on it, not the manual levers. So many things. The ball would always get the letter the same color (things like pressing an A would have a long stroke and you use your pinkie) It was kind of like typing on a computer. Second and most important for people like me was that you could hit backspace and erase the letter and not put in a piece of whiteout paper. You could type much faster, because you could never catch two levers together. The carriage return (yes that is why it is the return key) was not a manual lever with a long strike. Yes, my mom typed for my Dad at home with one.

             1. Will also note that there are very important similarities to why we never moved off the QWERTY standard which didn’t even matter anymore and certain technologies today which we either can’t fix or people are not adopting.

             2. Interesting, thanks. Yes, levers jamming was an issue with regular typewriters. Our parents made us take typing classes (on manual typewriters) as a useful skill to know, when we were kids, like you mentioned once about learning various skills. Remember the carriage return from there too. Same with line feed. Good skill to have.

          2. Honestly I used to love the hum and the sound of the machine. You’d type and their would be a very small delay and then the ball would spin and hit the paper. I am into hums and sounds (reason I have no interest in electric I like the sound of an engine). Very relaxing you got into a zone. Just liked it for that reason alone.Remember using a teletype and a mainframe? Kind of the same thingin a way.Funny I can’t even find a good video of the sound and this lady in this one can’t type as fast as I could even back in high school:https://www.youtube.com/wat…

             1. Yes, engine sounds are good.I never used a teletype or a mainframe, but I remember seeing those telex machines in some offices of relatives.

18. I’ve been working on audio travel guides since 2005, well ahead of their time. I still believe that asking a device about things near you, with the AI behind it to dig into the details is the future. There are many things that still need “solving” isolating multi sounds in a complex cacaphonous environment, returning the information that makes sense for the environment–audio or text, and making it faster than keyboard inputs. Aren’t we still trying to beat the paper calendar/planner with tech? Faster and easier will always win over cumbersom tech deployments.

19. I just can’t believe nobody posted the crossover video in the comments. There, fixed: https://youtu.be/y3X274lz3wY

    1. excellent

       1. Its funny you like that so much, as MJ was fishing for a steal and not really engaged.AI was a genius, however.

       2. My version of this is “Vince Carter Olympic Dunk”

    2. Speaking of Michael Jordan:Codingbat, Progress Graphs and Michael Jordan:https://jugad2.blogspot.com…Even if you’re not into the main topic of the post, check out the quote and the pic near the end.

    3. is that genius, or 10,000 hours? this is a cultural wall for me.

       1. Follow cricket ? Something close to that in batting in your neck of the woods currently.

          1. i played it at school. i know it. it’s more complex than basketball. basketball is a more athletic version of ballroom dancing 🙂

             1. Kohli at Edgbaston last wk (which was a great advertisement for a test match). Looking forward to Lord’s.

             2. Test cricket seems much quicker than it used to be. the influence of 20 20 i guess. This summer’s conditions should help India. Fast dry wickets, and bone hard.

20. I believe 2018 is the 20th Anniversary of Next Year is the Year of the Voice UI prediction.Verbal human communications are very, very inconsistent.My fave example of this is the Palm Pilot input decision to teach PEOPLE how a Palm Pilot recognized written letters, rather than the other way around……and human writing is far more consistent than human speech.That being said, my 13yo loves talking to things.

    1. >I believe 2018 is the 20th Anniversary of Next Year is the Year of the Voice UI prediction.Ha ha, the same thing has been said for years about the next year going to be the Year of the Linux Desktop. (I’d be happy for it to happen, BTW, being a heavy Unix background guy for years).>My fave example of this is the Palm Pilot input decision to teach PEOPLE how a Palm Pilot recognized written letters, rather than the other way around……and human writing is far more consistent than human speech.I had 2 Palm devices, both were good. Apart from excellent looks, stylus, the Graffiti writing system (which I think is what you alluded to in your comment), and some other good features I don’t remember, one outstanding thing about it was that when you switched it back on after a shutdown, you would be back to the exact same place in the app where you were earlier. Except for things like Windows hibernation, I don’t know if any other platforms have that. Okay, tmux on Linux is supposed to have something like it, and I don’t know about Macs, never having used one (although I used Apple home computers back in the day).

21. Car manufacturers have let us down on Voice Interfaces.I wrote this piece 5 YEARS AGO, and still haven’t seen much in innovation beyond what Apple Car Play & Android are doing to reinvent the car computer:https://medium.com/things-t…

    1. car manufacturers are defending the space inside their cars. they’ve seen what can happen to an industry when the web tech raiders breach its defensive walls.

22. Apple TV lets you use your Phone for inputing.

23. CONTRIBUTORS:The reason we don’t utilize the voice assistant in Google is that you are talking aloud. Why do you need anyone hearing what your typing.Captain Obvious!#UNEQUIVOCALLYUNAPOLOGETICALLYINDEPENDENT

24. For text input for your Apple TV you may like using the remote app on your phone or an ipad. It can work as a game controller too.

25. Take your Jeep in for an aftermarket media upgrade (or just trade in for a new Jeep that supports Android auto) to make it Android Auto compatible. Android Auto is great and I control it pretty much exclusively via voice.If you spend any material time in your car, I promise it’s worth it.

26. “What this tells me is the path forward for voice input technology, which has gotten very good, is in applications that are not mainstream yet but can get mainstream by solving the data input problem.”In other words…Clayton ChristensenThe Innovator’s Dilemmahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wi…Value to innovation is an S-curve: Improving a product takes time and many iterations. The first of these iterations provide minimal value to the customer but in time the base is created and the value increases exponentially. Once the base is created then each iteration is drastically better than the last. At some point the most valuable improvements are complete and the value per iteration is minimal again. So in the middle is the most value, at the beginning and end the value is minimal.

27. Voice input was here already in the the 1990s:Back then, I was a junior analyst and a large part of my time was spent disentangling 10 minute voice mails from a senior partner with instructions to change slides in a deck. After 3 minutes,”Wait, forget that line of thought, I have another idea, now page 25 goes right after the current page 14, (yes, please drop me of here right at the corner, keep the change), then restructure the whole story with A, B, C” and then he would start experimenting with different headlines on chart 3, in the end settling for option 4 out of 7. The cool thing was that you could forward these voicemails to an entire team, so you had to listen to the whole group broadcast until your part would come at 5:40″.I had to make the voice input reliable. 🙂

28. I find a widening gap between thumb entry on a phone screen vs typing on a laptop. I’m slowed on the laptop because I don’t have suggested words to hit only 1/4 inch away, and can read a screen only a couple inches away. I wish for a laptop with a small screen at the top of the keyboard.

29. “I can say “call Joanne Wilson” while I am driving and it does that pretty reliably. “…..But what happens when you say “call the Gotham Gal”